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Just catching up on this thread. Apart from some misstated knowledge of the First Nations' which I will deal with later, there are three main threads of negative impact immigration. The first is the impact on the housing market and how it pushes up prices. The recent developments of tax changes have already seemed to knock that one on the head, but it is too early to determine if that is the case, and I will explain why in a second. But, as a rough and ready set of numbers, I got Google to give me the following in a table: So, what does it compare (all sourced from ABS data): Each year from 2000 to 2025 EOFY. The net migration into Australia The natural increase in the population (non-immigrants) Net dwelling additions to Australia - that means number of new dwellings built minus the number of those demolished. The average number of people per immigrant household The average number of people per non-immigrant household The new immigrant homes needed based on the number of immigrants divided by the average household size The new homes needed for non immigrant families The surplus or deficit of new dwellings built minus the sum of immigrant and non-immigrant houses required. This is rough and ready by any measure. For example, we don't take into account the number of bedrooms per new dwelling. But on this measure, only 6 of the 26 years there was a deficity in the number of new dwellings constructed versus the estimated new homes required across both the immigrant and non immgrant dwellings required. The biggest deficit was 77k homes in 2022-23, immediately after Covid. Pre-Covid, the biggest deficit was 7.5K. The biggest surplus was 142,500 dwellings in a year! With the exception of 2024-25, which ad a small surplus of 2,700 most years of surplus were well into the 10s of thousands. This is especially important because of the compounding effect. Every year, immigrants come, and then the next year some/many will have a baby or 2. That baby further increases the population. That is reflected in the domestic and not immigrant size and skews the figures at is is deemed one domestic person in the household of domestic population.. and increases the number of dwellings required according to the stats. These are two examples of statistical error, but the numbers of surpluses involved for the amount of years would indicate that the issue of immigration on housing in de minimis; or marginal at best. There goes that claim that immigration has a big impact on the housing costs. The second, on crime, it is hard to get stats. The reason why is because an immigrant is considered someone who is born overseas, and with young kids committing crimes, many may well be born in Australia and considered part of the domestic population. In addition, the ABS does not publish statistics by ethnic origin. So the best I could come up with is this from AI: It's not much, but it points to a debunking of the myths. My anecdotal observations in the UK is that crime, with the exception of hate crime, is linked more to socio-economic issues than specific ethinic backgrounds. But like Australia, the UK statistics Office doesn't publish such information, at least according to Google. The third is the dilution of Aussie culture ("traditional Australian"). This is a little too subjective for me; the behaviour of Aussies differs on socio-economic and location. Just look at Melbourne Football club members, for example. And if you think Aussies are laid back, well, they weren't compared to their UK cousins, at least pre Covid, that is for sure. But, that was my impression. And, they certainly don't or didn't swear anywhere near that of the Brit, nor did they drink anywhere near as much, either (NT excepted, I guess).. Again, that was my observation, which may be different to yours. But I get the feeling Aussies have this view of themselves as somehow unique.. My travels have busted that myth to me. However, I do get that people who have a vastly different culture and physical appearance can come across as not integrating with the local culture. There is a difference between people coming here and doing well, and people coming here, doing well, and integrating. But that does not mean they have to not wear what they want (Australia is about freedom of choice, right). Nor does it mean they need to fit into everything a "traditional Aussie" would do.. Many years ago, if you didn't smoke, you weren't Australian.. Despite the tobacco wars, there has been a big shift in attitudes to smoking, drinking, and I think those with massive muscly cars are considered either bogans or correcting for other deficiencies. I doubt much of this is the result of immigration., yet our cultural values have changed. Even marital rape is now illegal all over Australia since 1996 (though it was progressively made illegal from 1976). Think about it.. Marital rape was acceptable in modern Australia. Sometimes, it is good to have a cultural change.

"English is what happens when Vikings learn Latin and use it to shout at Germans, and then the French shout back!"

That is your opinion.. can you present stats from reliable sources to back that up... Otherwise that is the big flaw in democracy - people with only an opinion who can't be arsed to find out the reality get to determine who runs the country. So, what evidence do you have the books are cooked.. Just because it doesn't fit your narrative - your belief system - doesn't mean it is wrong or the books are cooked. Back to the "oh the left.. whatever" argument.. no basis apart from an attempt to disparage. Well, if being left is finding the facts, I am proudly left... You're just tired of being presented facts that don't correlate to your beliefs. Sorry for you, but facts don't give a stuff what you think. Or maybe your typo is a Freudian slip - you are tied up by the fact? I am not sure what the first sentence means.. It was an illustration of how a culture can change over time. And sometimes, the "traditional Aussie" in what I am guessing is GON's stereotype isn't nice, but is becoming nicer. But, also you shouldn't believe everything you read in the press, either. The number of women homicides are slightly down ion 2024-25 over the prevuous year - both in the absolute and intimate partner (domestic violence) categories, but the longer term trend has been downwards: And I doubt this is altogether to do with migration as well, but a shift in culture - to be honest, although it would be great to see it at zero, it is an, in general positive shift over time. Another plus for a shifting cultural values, although recent spikes are cause for concern, they have settled down.

GON could it be that you have not mixed with people from other cultures very much? I have, for most of my working life, worked with people from many countries. These people were highly educated and great people. I certainly have been helped by strangers from another country. My in-laws, who are now in their 90s and pretty frail, have some wonderful neighbours from Pakistan. These people are and have always been the kindest and most generous people you could ever meet. When we visit my in-laws (they live interstate) and go for lunch, their neighbours will often cook some food and send it over. When the woman comes over she will give my father in law a bug hug and ask "how are you Baba"? Baba means father, grandfather or respected older man. My in-laws house is getting pretty run down and their neighbour often comes in and fixes things. Here is a post from my father- in- laws FB page The thing is in any culture are nationality there is a range of characteristics. My doctor is Malaysian but this is the least notable thing about him. My son's partner is: Kind Extremely humourous Scarily intelligent Succesfull The fact that she is Chinese is interesting but mostly irrelevant to us. Is it wrong to assess people from my dealings with them rather than resorting to dumb stereotypes?

Trump has done a wonderful thing for ethical behaviour. Corruption used to be something hidden behind closed doors. Trump has thrown those doors wide open and brought it out into the open.

Did you know.... If you spell Absolutely Nothing backwards, you get.... "Gnighton Yletulosba", which means....... Absolutely Nothing!

The thread is devoted to 'God Elp Amerika' but no evidence suggests god is helping at all. Unless god thinks the world might be better off without the US part of america

Well, Belgium won.. So, the USA is out. I feel sorry for the team, because normally I - and I bet many millions more - are very happy with the result, rather than either ambivalent or even sorry they went out. No one I have spoken to, including two yanks over here, wanted the USA to win.

It's also bad for the US team. If they lose, they're out and if they win, it will seem that they cheated. The best thing by far would be for player himself to refuse to play on the grounds that the rules are the rules. Then even if they lost he and the team would be heroes, Trump and FIFA would get a poke in the eye, and the world would applaud.

It gets worserer. The player who was given the red card was what is known as a birthright citizen. He was born to an English couple who were holidaying in the USA. His mother was seven months' pregnant when she wanted to return to England at teh end of the holiday, but the airline declined to carry her due to the risk of an in-flight birth. So they remained in the USA and the player was born on US soil, granting him birthright citizenship. I don't know how he later became a member of the USA team as I don't know anything about his career. Trump's birthright Executive Order has just been thrown out by SCOTUS and Trump is fuming about that. Yet he has the gall to ask (demand?) FIFA organisers to put the red card penalty on hold so that this birthright player can represent the USA in the next round of competition. You've got to have some sympathy for the player being innocently caught up in this blanant act of corruption.

FIFA management has been corrupt for years bowing to the almighty $. They inserted a drinks break supposedly because of the heat but mandated it for all games whether it is hot or cold, effectively splitting the game in to 4 quarters. This not only disrupts the flow of the game & gives players a bit of a breather but and most importantly provides and additional period to rake in $billions from advertisers.

My wife once told me, "Sex is more fun on holidays". It wasn't the best postcard I've ever received

Microsoft are doing very well, aren't they?

Can we call you "Spud"?. Nev

Perth would have only reached two-thirds of its current population level is we had to rely on groundwater and rainfall for water. We ran short of adequate amounts of drinking water around 15 years ago. As a result, two desalination plants have been installed, utilising our plentiful natural gas supply and a cleverly designed membrane, and those two desalination plants now supply around 35% to 40% of the drinking water for Perth. There are many country towns in W.A. facing a similar problem, and during drought periods, water has had to be trucked into some towns in W.A. that ran out of drinking water supplies. We live on the edge on this planet, at the best of times. Natural disasters such as extended droughts, massive storms, and earthquakes, have often decimated population centres.

No. It doesn't. There are a heap of factors that go into house prices including supply, number of tradies, planning rules, land zoning, capital gains discounts, short term holiday houses (Airbnb), etc. Again - looking for a simple solution to a complex problem.

Are you referring to unsolicited phone calls? I totally agree. They are an insult to our intelligence. But we cannot blame the politicians for it, no matter what political party is in power. Further, I cannot stand the businesses that persist in using foreign call centres. Or A.I. voice prompts. But I still cannot blame politicians for such business decisions that create poor customer service (even the big profitable banks are often guilty of it).

I've heard a lot of Sky News talking points and very few facts in this discussion. If you want to come back to me with some validated statistics of exactly how our current immigration numbers are making life worse here, then I'll listen. Until then it's all just hot air.

So, how come Labor is totally corrupt, and the Liberals and Nationals and One Nation are pure and honest? Sounds like you're just carrying out repeating all the slanted, Labor-hating, Sky News reporting. And if you're going to accuse people in power of corruption, you'd better be able to back it up with proof, or you could become involved in defamation lawsuits.

Musk is a rabid fascist. He's made a habit of sticking his nose in other countries business and supporting the worst far right policies and parties. If Musk is complaining about Australia's immigration then we must have it about right.

I think you must have been studying some kind of pyschological quackery, to produce this "feast and famine" talk, involving thought processes and political leanings. I've never heard of such a thing, and I've heard and read about a lot of exotic ideas, around the workings of the mind.

GON, I'm using both sides my brain to follow your arguments and logic, but not having a lot of luck so far.

You mean if one is reasonably intelligent and a normal human being? Thanks.

O.K. We stop immigration, who is going to do all the crap dirty jobs you expect to get done? We haven't got enough labour as it is. All the old tradies are retiring and dying off and no young "White Australians" want to take these jobs on - especially where those kids come from wealthy white families where oodles of money is freely available to them, without working for it. You send all the Asians, Indians and Islanders home, who's going to drive your taxis and delivery trucks? Who's going to do your office and house cleaning? Who's going to build your new house? We can't get enough truck drivers of any kind because wealthy white kids don't want to drive trucks for long hours and long distances, putting up with crap food and being away from family. We can't get enough tradies to repair anything, such as house repairs, and mechanical repairs - because rich White Australians only want managerial jobs, and only like to play with electronic stuff. I'm currently giving the fencing bloke across the road from my block in a little country town, a hand to do limestone block retaining walls, on a new caravan park the Shire is building. He can't get any kind of labour to help him, so he comes to the old bloke across the road, to help him out. It's gut-busting work, out in the open, in all kinds of weather - while the young rich kids in town tear up the local reserves on their expensive trail motorbikes - because they don't have to work for anything, the Bank of Mum and Dad give them any toys they want, and they don't need to work! SWMBO and I rebuilt our bathroom just over 2 years ago. The only tradies we could find to do it, were two Iranian blokes. They were good conscientous workers, careful with the tiling and accuracy in alignment, and their work was a credit to them. These blokes had fled from a murderous regime, same as lot of immigrants, and they still had family there. They didn't "hate Australia", they see Australia as a chance to live peacefully and make some money and progress in life. I'd be pretty sure they suffer from "divided loyalties" and probably don't understand what the Anzac tradition is all about - same as if I went to live in a foreign country, and couldn't understand what they celebrated. But I marched in an Anzac March yesterday, and saw about 25,000 people waving Aussie flags, cheering and clapping all the soldiers, sailors, airmen and airwomen, and emergency services people - and the number of "White Australians" I saw in the crowd was pretty low, probably less than a quarter. There were Asians galore, Indians galore, and all the colours of the rainbow in the crowd. And they all obviously loved Australia, and what we are as a nation - otherwise they wouldn't have been there. I'll also wager there was a huge number of "White Australians" who never bothered attending any Anzac celebration - because they don't give a rats rectum about the Anzacs or Australian traditions, they're only interested in themselves, and their rich hedonistic pursuits - such as flying. A lot of these people would have been whinging that nearly all the shops were shut, and they couldn't buy something they wanted. Albo and his mob are struggling to do the best they can with the cards they've been handed by all the previous Govts - and that includes a lot of Liberal/NP decision-making that only ever benefited rich people and giant global corporations. If previous Liberal and NP Govts had done the right thing as regards Govt decision-making for the countrys long term benefit, we wouldn't be facing the problems we have today - and the Liberal Party and National Party wouldn't have disappeared up their fundamental orifices, to the point where they have virtually ceased to exist as parties and as a useful Opposition - simply because they failed to look after the people who originally voted for them. One Nation is an erratic flash in the pan with a track record of achieving very little, except pulling stunts that are designed to be divisive and make people feel unwanted - because they aren't Anglo-Saxon, white skinned, blue-eyed, and jingoistic. I've got some news for the jingoistic types. Australia became a multi-cultural country many decades ago, and Anglo-Saxons and White Europeans only make up a very small percentage of the worlds population (around 9%, according to the figures I get handed) - and that percentage continues to decrease as this largely rich cohort continue to reduce their reproduction rate. In the future, the majority of your doctors, scientists, engineers, tradespeople, and many of your leaders will be from some country you consider has an inferior culture. You'd better get used to it. Voting for One Nation will do nothing to reverse this trend and the Fish and Chip Shop Lady has no answers to the "immigration problem" either - except creating a vastly more divided and hateful Australia.

FFS. He was asking if you consented to his handling your feet to cut your toenails. When my karate sensei corrects my stance he asks permission to move my arm. In the age of Epstein and Weinstein it's just safer to ensure you have consent before touching someone's body. If you want someone to blame for that, entitled rich creeps like them and indeed "grab 'em on the pussy" Trump should be your target.

Where's your official references to this sweeping extreme right wing claim? - apart from regular One Nation outbursts?

The moon over the Persian Gulf (Strait of Hormuz) and the International Space Station. Moon 02.mp4

NASA just dropped the clearest view of Moon ever captured... by Artemis 2. You can even see craters in extreme detail. yeah, the moon has a colors, you can see them here. Moon 01.mp4

I guess the issue is not immigration per se, but the method. These conversations often seem to assume that the worst cases are the most common. In the past, there were a lot of Italian migrants. Although now accepted by most Australians, there were certainly a minority involved in organised crime. My son's partner is a migrant from China (to NZ). She is a highly paid (and taxed) contributor to society. The term immigrant is rather broad. My doctor and my dentist are immigrants. For the last 30 years of my working life, I mainly worked as a music teacher in private music studios. The number of my colleagues born overseas was quite large. These people were the best and brightest. Here is a picture from when I retired. There are Irish, Vietnamese, Chinese, Hong Kong, South American, South African, British, and probably more. These people were all smart and talented, and I loved working with them. I am also an immigrant. My family arrived in Australia in 1964 as "ten-pound tourists" We lived in a new city called Elizabeth, which was full of immigrants, mainly British but other nationalities as well. A few immigrants failed to adjust, and there was crime associated with this. I don't have the figures, but I doubt it would have been much greater than from Australian-born people.

The general opinion of the immigration problem seems to be that immigrants lower the standards many Anglo-Europeans set in earlier days - as regards cleanliness, levels of service, and general behaviour standards. The previous laws relating to immigrants appear to have been seriously watered down. Originally, immigrants had to produce a clean criminal history, be sponsored by an Australian citizen and have a job to go to, and they were on "probation" for a couple of years after arrival. Any criminal offence soon after arrival would see them deported quickly. But now we have "African Crime Gangs", "Middle Eastern Crime Gangs", and Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs taken over by immigrant thugs. There has been a major upsurge in drug dealing, money laundering, car theft, car rebirthing, financial scams (especially involving NDIS and child care payment scams), and a major upsurge in the use of bladed weapons in serious assaults and home invasions. A lot of this crime upsurge is directly related to immigrants with criminal histories and tendencies who were let in, apparently unchecked. This is not the way to improve a country.

Here's Mars with camera movement. I used a 14MP compact digital camera at full 3x zoom. This was when Mars was orbiting closest to Earth in Aug 2018. I've expanded the image for better viewing. I was just fooling about on the night and tried to hold the camera as still as possible for the 1sec exposure. Click on it.

My son was telling me today that on whatever socials he uses, while there's a lot of people celebrating the Artemis mission, there's a few idiots saying it's all faked. Just like the original moon trips. Some people, you wonder how they remember to breathe.