Gnarly Gnu

Nev it wasn't intended to be deliberately offensive, I just equate fundamental atheists as God haters because that's how they come across. Other faiths and beliefs (eg animism, Buddhism, occult, mysticism etc) don't seem to bother fundamental atheist at all. Horse the animals were created first, a more detailed examination of chapters 1 and 2 are is here. When you quote 'the church believed....' I take it you are referring to the Roman Catholic Church? The bible doesn't claim man was short of a rib and a quick look at a few skeletons would confirm this so the story may be folklore but then I don't look into the historical teachings of the RCC other than the obviously wrong doctrinal ones.

Marty I'm not actually familiar with the term 'original sin', I take it this is RCC terminology? The new-born infants have not themselves sinned of course although each has the nature or the propensity to do so and this shows itself before long (you would have noticed this if you have children). In a maternity ward every human child is born with pain due to the curse of Eve's sin - Genesis 3v16 "To the woman he said, I will greatly increase thy travail and thy pregnancy; with pain thou shalt bear children;" Incidentally elsewhere in the hospital you might find doctors doing bone grafts using a patients rib bones - the rib bones in the human body will fully regenerate themselves per Genesis 2v21 - 23. See clip below. Blaming God for mankind's evil and sin (eg the concentration camps reference) is a favourite tactic of the atheist God-hater whilst at the same time attempting to either deny there is sin in us all or claiming it is no big issue. Matthew 10v28 "And be not afraid of those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul; but fear rather him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

This is the central hope of all atheists.

Hello Jaba, when I see remarks like this and Bex's I can't tell if you are both goofing off (fair enough, it is the funny section) or are actually serious and really haven't looked into basic Christian theology at all. For the past 6000 odd years mankind has been living under the curse of sin and death so thus we can expect to see disease, death, suffering, sickness and the like. I'm sitting here right now looking at one of the natural wonders of the world, it is an absolutely fabulous view - but it is certainly not perfect as a closer inspection reveals. Something happened; what was designed perfect has been marred. Same with the human body, terrific design but with flaws.... read about it in books like Genesis and Romans eg 5v12 "For this cause, even as by one man sin entered into the world, and by sin death; and thus death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" We can see the effect of sin in everyone, in varying levels people can be greedy, they can lie, cheat, steal.... all sorts of bad things happen daily. Of course it is always easy for us to see this in other people, not so easy to recognize that it is the same problem in oneself! By definition the only place without sin is heaven which is why we cannot be accepted there with our sin.

And this is somehow your business? Not an opportunity to earn brownie points for your nomenclatura comrades sorry because what I'm doing is perfectly legal.

Don I'm aware of so-called 'Mungo man' - the claim goes this mob were wiped out by Aborigines or 'genocided' as some of the latter say. If so don't know why we can't get them to at least say sorry, or get maybe Kev to do if for them. Surely there are some human rights lawyers out their that would love to take up their case? I'm currently working in a pagan or non-Christian background country and have been delighted to see various signs of Christianity here. For example the biggest hospital nearby has the 'snakes wrapped around a pole' symbol which is a direct reference to the healing that occurred some 3400 years ago and recorded in Numbers chapter 21 - how 'fiery serpents' were biting and killing people until Moses set up a model, a brass serpent upon a pole; those that were bitten and looked upon the brass serpent lived. And this is in turn a direct allegory of the gospel and the instant spiritual healing afforded to those that put their faith in Christ. The serpents represent sin (we are all affected by sin / bitten by the serpent called Satan) and yet the Son of God was made sin for us* - he himself became sin by taking our wickedness upon himself and dying on a cross for us. Anyone can "look and live" even the gravely ill, just as anyone can have faith and be saved from their sins. But sadly there are those that refuse - those too proud, the mockers or those in denial of their sinful condition etc. * 2 Corinthians 5v21 "Him who knew not sin he has made sin for us, that we might become God's righteousness in him."

Yet no-one can explain where >99.99% of them are. Or what they were doing all those tens of thousands of years.

Like the other mob that claimed to be 40,000 years wandering in the oz wilderness?

Care to give us the rest of that passage Nev? Didn't like me mentioning the killing? I get the impression you feel I should meekly accept any crud the fundamentalists here throw up. What everyone needs to know is we are all to be judged. Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" Yet in contrast to this belief science confirms the universe had a beginning and is expanding, both points aligning with what the bible describes.

Thanks for the advice comrade, the party line is always quite predictable - although I admit somehow comparing infanticide / forced abortion and gendercide to culling animals was quite unexpected. Sad you would even begin to think like this. I don't think it would appreciated if I posted graphic evidence of what is happening but folks that would like to know can search for it.

Whilst neither Australia (secular democracy) or the USA (republic) could really be called Christian societies (eg there are many more Christians by number in China than AU) to raise but one point the number of unborn butchered in China is horrific largely due to the single child policy for city people. I agree some aspects in China are conservative (same as in Iran etc) but this does not make them Christian. Besides many Christians are still being persecuted there so I think you may be confusing the two aspects. I do note that despite the bluster none have offered an alternative list of atheist run countries that are free and tolerant.

This is an interesting story about a brave young girl who escaped North Korea with its totalitarian atheist government. The God-haters here are free to mock (a sign of the days we live in) but history shows no government is worse, no country less free than an atheist run one. Sure, like Moslems, a percentage of individual athi's are not fundamentalists and are nice people but the big picture is a nasty one unfortunately. Just reminding

Yet it happens. Proverbs 10:18

God-haters like yourself have been around a long time. In other news water is wet. The sky is blue.

You believe the atmosphere was compressed into the waters?

Don the God of the Bible (which BTW is NOT Allah of the Koran who is an exact opposite character) has no desire for us to be religious (the term very rarely used in scripture) - it's all about God having a relationship with us, a close father - child relationship*. There are many people who call themselves Christians yet have never been born anew, never received the Holy Spirit; John 3v3 "Jesus answered and said to him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except any one be born anew he cannot see the kingdom of God." You and I can study the Bible day and night but until we put it into action it remains an academic interest and we are not saved. Heb 11v6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him. For he that draws near to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them who seek him out." God will not hear a sinner (John 9v31) but the moment we repent (acknowledge our sin or wrongdoing) he does: John 1v12 "but as many as received him, to them gave he the right to be children of God, to those that believe on his name." This message of salvation by faith is so simple it can be understood by anyone. Regarding why does God allow suffering there are many articles about this if you would care to look into it, perhaps your teachers may have brushed it aside as they didn't really know. I understand it relates to what took place between God and Satan back near the beginning of creation, rather than immediately crush him time was given to demonstrate to all the goodness and justice of God vs the destruction and evil Satan has brought into the world. This is potentially a lengthy discussion I don't have time to get into here however I will make one comment about the continent of Africa which is where many of these significant diseases seem to be originating. God has blessed Africa with the greatest natural resources of all the continents on earth. It is fabulously wealthy and the lifestyle of people living there should exceed that of the USA, Europe and other wealthy western or middle eastern countries. Yet due to sin and corruption a large percentage of Africans are dirt poor and suffering. I don't see this as God's fault at all. Many, many people from the west have and are helping them yet due largely to corruption, violence and apathy only a little improvement has been seen. I've noticed some people rush to blame God when some bad thing happens yet not once have they thanked him for the many good things that also happen daily. Specifically on disease you will often hear the media claim that bacteria is evolving so rapidly that antibiotics are becoming useless. But instead what is happening is that there are many related strains of bacteria and antibiotics tend to kill only certain types leaving others to flourish, it has nothing to do with them evolving. Doctors recently examined a WW1 corpse of a solider who died of dysentery and found it had an antibiotic resistant bacteria - many years before antibiotics were being used. * In the beginning the church was a fellowship of men and women centering on the living Christ. Then the church moved to Greece where it became a philosophy. Then it moved to Rome where it became an institution. Next, it moved to Europe , where it became a culture. And, finally, it moved to America where it became an enterprise.--Richard Halverson, former chaplain of the United States Senate

Which war? Gough was an ardent supporter of the Viet Cong.

Until very recent times the Chinese government was systematically executing people with education. After decades of being a basket case they finally realised Communism is an utter failure and they would never get close to the performance of the west unless they at least became educated so now they've swung the opposite way on this point, which is good. Incidentally (as I'm sure you'd love to know) some folks in the Bible 2000 years ago tried communism and it was a failure (as always) and they nearly starved; by contrast one of Jesus parables in the new testament supports a free market economy, this was not a new idea then but we know from historical evidence it is the one mechanism that has boosted the economic well-being - and by extension health and lifespan - of mankind more than any other. Of course what we have in Australia is no longer free as you would know, it is semi-socialist or crapitalist as some say which is why so many folks are now struggling. I have heard this from others also, in the west to the dismay of Atheists and leftists we still have the framework of our Christian heritage - this doesn't mean theft and cheating doesn't happen here of course but it does mean that this is not the norm in business and is not seen as expected or accepted behavior like it is in some countries without a significant Christian base behind their culture. It's not a problem for God that you don't believe in him, He doesn't believe in Atheists.

Specifically which religion? There are many, Atheism is one significant belief in the west. Christians started hospitals and universities (Yale, Princeton, Oxford, Harvard, Trinity etc.... all started by Christians / churches) yet this is anti-progress to you. And we know that Atheist run countries are pretty much the most backward intolerant hell-holes out there, the fruit is there for everyone to see Bik.

Ask yourself why so many elaborate hoaxes? Bit of pig, horse and chimpanzee cobbled together in failed attempts to show a 'missing link', kinda funny really but it fooled millions of people. If you are curious do yourself a favour - on any controversial topic Wiki is not a reliable resource (broken by design) so if you looked further you would discover the lack of evidence I refer to. No fossil evidence of species changing, no genetic evidence, no mechanism to add complex information to DNA to make any of this happen, staggeringly complex cell and genetic structures which cannot function with even one of dozens of materials and proteins present, no purpose for partly formed reproductive organs, 'junk' DNA that turned out to be not junk, 'vestigial organs' that turned out to have a necessary purpose.... the list goes on and on. That's actually not difficult octave. Personally it's not a matter of choosing a belief by blind faith and just hoping it all pans out. If God created us with a logical mind his teaching must also follow logic and have supporting evidence. For those that genuinely seek God he will make himself known to you, those that repent and believe are given to experience the transforming power of the Holy Spirit within them. Worshiping an unresponsive God doesn't appeal to me at all, might as well address an inanimate idol. I get the impression you really seem to think Christians unthinkingly cling to some vague hope.

Is Xiaomi a Chinese brand that comes with free spyware?

My opinion is actually not the relevant factor horse, I'm just pointing out that the theory has failed due to an absence of supporting physical and historical evidence. It should be accepted by all of us that a scientific claim requires evidence to back it up. It also happens to be a comforter theory for the majority of atheists who cling to it dearly simply because the alternatives are unpalatable. I hope that anyone trawling through this info like Nomadpete will at least be open minded enough to question this stuff and go searching for themselves. Be brave folks! One hundred or so years ago it may have seemed plausible still but despite repeated attempts with hoaxes (Piltdown man, Nebraska man, Orce, Java man etc) with advances in science and genetic understanding it can now be seen that any significant species change beyond 'natural selection' (selective breeding) it is utterly impossible, not to mention abiogenesis which is in the upper stratosphere above the probability scale. Even Charles Darwin didn't go that far. On the education side with controversial topics (evolution, religions etc) I personally believe that children should be shown all the various theories and evidences for each and not be exposed only to one view. This is currently not the approach accepted in state schools or universities here, which are actually much more narrow minded and intolerant than they used to be. Global warming theory is another example of this. Again, just my idea - many here strongly disagree - and you are totally welcome to raise your children with whatever level of exposure to these ideas you see fit.

Good to hear you've denounced Darwinian evolution theory which is exactly as you describe. Started with a conclusion but the theoretical supporting evidence never panned out. But simply because the Bible states a few things about the solar system which with modern science we now know to be true I'm not getting your objection, it's nonsensical. Perhaps you didn't read the post properly.

All listed in the link Thomas.

Or they could have just read the Bible - it teaches a circular earth which 'hangs on nothing'.... this portion written more than 3000 years ago. Whilst it's not intended to be, or written as, a scientific textbook the science therein is indeed accurate.