octave

These doors have sensors. When we rode in one a couple of times I stood to o close and the door stopped opening. I do however think these doors are a bit over the top although kind of cool at first.

Whilst on holiday in NZ on the South Island we travelled in one of these from Lake Teanu to Milford Sound and back. We had 4 options to get there, we could have driven our rental car (didn't fancy that) or go on a coach with a herd of other tourists or fly (next time). The Tesla X is a great car however I am not sure it makes sense as a family car, given the price. The journey was extremely comfortable and the quietness allowed the knowledgeable driver to point out the sights and give us some of the history. Tesla X.mp4

And you will be able to do this for many years to come. You and I will be long gone before that choice doesn't exist

There is always tyre noise but the overall noise is lower. I have driven 3 EVS a Leaf, a BMWI3 and a Tesla I have also been a passenger in a BYD Atto 3. Yes, there is road noise from the tyres but what is missing is engine noise. In an IC car going up a hill involves changing down which does create a change in the engine volume/pitch and also driving up a hill. One of the things I enjoy about driving an EV when in NZ is the ease with which you drive up hills. There is no need to manage the engine. This also applies to coming down a hill, no need to change down due to regenerative braking. A fun fact is my son lives at the top of a huge and long hill. When driving down it you end up with more in the battery than you started with, of course, this is more than compensated for on the way up. Driving up this hill is fun though, it is a 3-lane road and the Tesla will comfortably pass all the other cars.

Well, I always watch what people post. He does make some very good points. There are many facilities I would not want to live too close to if possible. Firefighters have a difficult job and it does constantly change. Chemical fires are not unheard of. One man killed in explosion at a Derrimut factory I certainly agree that huge battery facilities should not be close to houses although I am relatively comfortable with house batteries or even community batteries. Technology has always moved ahead and we have had to learn how to deal with things when they go wrong. Aviation? Nuclear Power? I am not sure how many large battery facilities there are in the world (I will try to find out the number) but these things are not bursting into flames all over the place. In another thread, we are talking about Nuclear power. People who are for acknowledge that there have been serious accidents but also point out the low odds of an accident. I would imagine that firefighters in this country do not have expertise in fighting a fire in a nuclear power plant.

I doubt you can find anywhere I have or anyone has said that. I have on many occasions said that for many people (including me) that EV may not yet be the best choice at this point. @kgwilsonless-than-perfect has mentioned less than perfect charging infrastructure. I have read back through the entire thread and I am having trouble identifying the "even-handedness" You say the "vehicle is not the immediate problem" but have been through all the usual objections like fires and battery recycling etc. I think I always try to address everything I can but I am happy to consider any points I have ignored. The first point is noise. Quiet vehicles are just more pleasant to drive, This also applies to IC vehicles. i am not sure why this is in question. I posted a video of my son in an EV on a track day. In the full video, he is having a conversation with his offsider at a normal volume whilst driving fairly hard. We were once stuck in bumper to bumper traffic driving from Wellington to my son's home after an accident closed the main highway. The EV was much better in that crawling traffic which was quiet (except for the other cars) and smooth. By contrast, I had to drive to the airport the other day and the traffic at one stage was crawling. In my car, this really sucks constantly pressing the clutch and crawling forward in 1st gear. The thing is that with the greatest respect, you say you have never driven one and although I don't own one I do get to drive one for a few weeks every year. @kgwilson owns one. Whatever the reason we feel that an EV is more pleasant to drive, we are not making it up. Perhaps if you feel passionate enough you could try and have a drive and then your argument might hold more weight. EV drive days

Here is a clip of my son driving his previous EV on a track day. Untitled 210.mp4

I am agnostic on the subject however I am interested in the predicted cost. South Korea is a country that has built many reactors at home and overseas. At the moment I believe they are building a reactor for the United Arab Emirates South Korea is among the world's most prominent nuclear energy countries, and exports its technology widely. It is currently involved in the building of the UAE's first nuclear power plant, under a $20 billion contract. My question would be can we build one cheaper than this? I haven't followed today's news but I would be interested in the costings For more information about costs and build times https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-o-s/south-korea

As I drive one for a couple of weeks each year I can say that when I get back home and get into my petrol car it seems like a vibration machine. I feel like I can hear and feel each piston stroke. Just about anyone who drives an EV for even a few minutes will comment about how quiet it is. May I respectfully suggest that if you have not driven one perhaps you don't have the necessary experience to make a judgement.

That seems hard to believe to me. I cant think of any Toyotya BEV that only has a range of 100km All-New All-Electric Toyota bZ4X I have driven around NZ in a Tesla comfortably and yes distances are shorter but hills are much steeper. I am prepared to acknowledge the disadvantages and advantages of EVs and that the infrastructure is still a work in progress and that we are in the early stages of transitioning from early adopters to the more mainstream buyers. Reading back through this thread I struggle to find any such balance in your posts.; I suspect your biggest problem with them is change. If your many negative assertions are correct then the EV industry will shortly die off. I somehow don't think this is going to happen but perhaps we can see what the situation is this time next year. Getting back to insurance and the idea that insurance companies have to charge more for EVs because of exploding carparks etc. Why is @kgwilson insurance only around the $700 mark? I have verified this by using an online quote.

An article from the Telegraph (UK) says that not all EVs are more expensive to insure and in some cases (or a least one case it mentions) cheaper https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/net-zero/insuring-electric-car-reasons-why-nightmare-costs-cover/ For specific models, it turns out some EVs are significantly cheaper to insure. CompareTheMarket compared the average premium on a range of models and found significant variations in costs. An electric Volkswagen, for example, was £353 cheaper to insure than its petrol equivalent. Meanwhile, an electric Jaguar was £301 more expensive than a petrol model.

Perhaps someone will know the answer to this but my understanding of the 20 million third party property limit is just that a limit. If you cause more than 20 million then I thinking that anything over than amount becomes your responsibility. It seems to me that an EV does not expose an insurance company to anything more than a petrol driven car. In recent example there was a fire in the carpark at Lutton airport. The culprit here was a diesel Land Rover. Surely if we use the potential to burn down a carpark then wouldn't land rovers cost more to insure? https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/15/land-rovers-keep-catching-fire-but-evs-get-blamed-for-luton-carpark-fire/ Every source I look at links higher insurance costs for EVs with higher parts prices, more difficult to repair in some cases, and less expertise at this point in time. The Tesla I dented needed either panel repair from a specialist or a new panel sent from the US (not sure which) but either way not as cheap as other cars. For a comparison of EV to similar Pertol or diesel https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/electric-car-insurance-premiums-compared#why-are-evs-more-expensive-to-insure I can find no evidence that higher insurance for EVs is linked to increased public liability but happy to consider any information. More and more EVs are LFP so not much to worry about there.

Just thinking about the insurance differences between EV and IC. The idea that the EV has higher premiums because of a perceived notion that the EV could burn down a car park seems a little odd. My understanding of my car third-party property insurance is that it covers other people's property is capped at 20 million. The question is does an EV have a higher maximum payout for damage to other peoples property? Let's say a car park

I am perplexed by this. Logic would suggest if car A and car B and if these 2 cars have the same monetary value but car A is more expensive to repair then why would car A not cost more to insure? OME you seem to be working overtime to prove that EVs are the work of the devil.

Yes, I imagine the economics would usually favour panel replacement for most modern cars.

I think the quote (not mine) was tougher, not stronger. This is not an are I have much knowledge about. Generally speaking, steel is stronger than aluminum. That said, once the lighter weight of aluminum is factored into the equation, aluminum comes out on top with a superior strength-to-weight ratio. Identifying which metal has the better strength for your application will depend on your design's flexibility. I think this may be what the quote was referring to. I cant tell you how many people have told me that you can not repair dents in aluminium. Whilst it is more difficult and requires more specialised skills it can and is done. The fact that it is more difficult and requires more specialised skills is I would suggest the main reason for insurance being more expensive. I would suggest that because of the special skills required the economics would in many cases favour panel replacement. Repairing Aluminum Body Panels With Collision Damage

By way of an example, I dented my son's Tesla. I caught a road sign on a ridiculously designed turn in a hilly NZ suburb. The panel in question was aluminium. This must add to the cost of the majority of repairs that the insurer has to pay for. Aluminium The second part of this blog were going to look at is aluminium. Teslas have aluminium panels – this material is a lot lighter than steel. But it’s a lot tougher and harder to repair. Unlike steel, it has no “metal memory”. This means when we perform a PDR repair on steel, the dented area stays in place once pushed, but aluminium doesn’t do this, as its so strong.

But insurance is just calculated not just on right off but on repairs from lesser accidents. I would guess that the majority of insurance claims would be for fender benders. The percentage of cars actually written off would surely be small. For example, if a 60k Tesla gets back into in a carpark it will probably cost more to repair than a 60k car that does not have aluminium panels.

A statement from the Insurance Council of Australia showed there were several reasons why the cost of insurance premiums for electric vehicles varied to petrol or diesel cars. In the first instance, electric vehicles were generally expensive vehicles to purchase. Dealing with damaged electric vehicle batteries is "time and labour consuming" and "required specialty equipment and disposal (recycling) methods", according to Ms Davies.(Getty: Sean Gallup) Other reasons included: The technology and parts in an electric vehicle are more expensive to produce and replace, specifically motor parts and battery Repairing damaged electric vehicles requires importing parts to Australia There are few electric vehicle service centres around Australia that can repair electric vehicles, vehicles may need to be transported to a distant location to be repaired Repairing electric vehicles requires specialty tradespeople, at present there are few of these trained people in Australia Dealing with damaged electric vehicle batteries is time and labour consuming. It also requires specialty equipment and disposal (recycling) methods The supply chain in Australia is in its infancy leading to higher costs, the situation here will not improve until the demand and then supply increases The ICA statement also pointed out "many factors are considered when calculating a premium".

No it isn't at least according to the Insurance Council of Australia. If your assertion was true then surely petrol and diesel Kias and Hyundais would also be expensive to insure given the fires which necessitated a recall of 3.4 million vehicles at least until fixed. https://apnews.com/article/hyundai-kia-engine-fire-recall-park-outside-93d012a52e7b884889cdaf2e6c22a458 "Hyundai and Kia are recalling nearly 3.4 million vehicles in the U.S. and telling owners to park them outside due to the risk of engine compartment fires." EVs, as I believe you have pointed out in the past are at this stage more expensive to repair (although less likely to need repair) and there are not (at this stage) so many qualified mechanics around.

We need not speculate on why EVs are more expensive to insure at this stage. Why speculate when we can find out the true answer? https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/why-are-electric-cars-more-expensive-to-insure/

I think conspiracists come from the far right and far left. Right-wing outlets such as Fox and News Max are full of conspiracies. As far as I can see it is the Majorie Tayor Greens of the world that are pushing the hardest against vaccination and science generally. There are left-wing nutters as well of course but I struggle to find a left-wing politician who is anti vax

Toyota claims it will be releasing its solid-state batteries in 2027 https://electrek.co/2024/01/11/toyota-solid-state-ev-battery-plans-750-mi-range/

Some EV batteries are liquid-cooled, and some are air-cooled. Here is an explanation of the Tesla Model 3 battery cooling system. Pretty interesting for those who are interested in learning new things. Tesla Model 3 - Cooling System Overview

A couple of interesting articles. "We are behind": Toyota's stunning admission about arch rival - but here's how the Japanese giant plans on levelling the score with the Tesla Model Y and Model 3 Toyota engineers call the Tesla Model Y a “work of art” – report