octave

That seems hard to believe to me. I cant think of any Toyotya BEV that only has a range of 100km All-New All-Electric Toyota bZ4X I have driven around NZ in a Tesla comfortably and yes distances are shorter but hills are much steeper. I am prepared to acknowledge the disadvantages and advantages of EVs and that the infrastructure is still a work in progress and that we are in the early stages of transitioning from early adopters to the more mainstream buyers. Reading back through this thread I struggle to find any such balance in your posts.; I suspect your biggest problem with them is change. If your many negative assertions are correct then the EV industry will shortly die off. I somehow don't think this is going to happen but perhaps we can see what the situation is this time next year. Getting back to insurance and the idea that insurance companies have to charge more for EVs because of exploding carparks etc. Why is @kgwilson insurance only around the $700 mark? I have verified this by using an online quote.

An article from the Telegraph (UK) says that not all EVs are more expensive to insure and in some cases (or a least one case it mentions) cheaper https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/net-zero/insuring-electric-car-reasons-why-nightmare-costs-cover/ For specific models, it turns out some EVs are significantly cheaper to insure. CompareTheMarket compared the average premium on a range of models and found significant variations in costs. An electric Volkswagen, for example, was £353 cheaper to insure than its petrol equivalent. Meanwhile, an electric Jaguar was £301 more expensive than a petrol model.

Perhaps someone will know the answer to this but my understanding of the 20 million third party property limit is just that a limit. If you cause more than 20 million then I thinking that anything over than amount becomes your responsibility. It seems to me that an EV does not expose an insurance company to anything more than a petrol driven car. In recent example there was a fire in the carpark at Lutton airport. The culprit here was a diesel Land Rover. Surely if we use the potential to burn down a carpark then wouldn't land rovers cost more to insure? https://cleantechnica.com/2023/10/15/land-rovers-keep-catching-fire-but-evs-get-blamed-for-luton-carpark-fire/ Every source I look at links higher insurance costs for EVs with higher parts prices, more difficult to repair in some cases, and less expertise at this point in time. The Tesla I dented needed either panel repair from a specialist or a new panel sent from the US (not sure which) but either way not as cheap as other cars. For a comparison of EV to similar Pertol or diesel https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/electric-car-insurance-premiums-compared#why-are-evs-more-expensive-to-insure I can find no evidence that higher insurance for EVs is linked to increased public liability but happy to consider any information. More and more EVs are LFP so not much to worry about there.

Just thinking about the insurance differences between EV and IC. The idea that the EV has higher premiums because of a perceived notion that the EV could burn down a car park seems a little odd. My understanding of my car third-party property insurance is that it covers other people's property is capped at 20 million. The question is does an EV have a higher maximum payout for damage to other peoples property? Let's say a car park

I am perplexed by this. Logic would suggest if car A and car B and if these 2 cars have the same monetary value but car A is more expensive to repair then why would car A not cost more to insure? OME you seem to be working overtime to prove that EVs are the work of the devil.

Yes, I imagine the economics would usually favour panel replacement for most modern cars.

I think the quote (not mine) was tougher, not stronger. This is not an are I have much knowledge about. Generally speaking, steel is stronger than aluminum. That said, once the lighter weight of aluminum is factored into the equation, aluminum comes out on top with a superior strength-to-weight ratio. Identifying which metal has the better strength for your application will depend on your design's flexibility. I think this may be what the quote was referring to. I cant tell you how many people have told me that you can not repair dents in aluminium. Whilst it is more difficult and requires more specialised skills it can and is done. The fact that it is more difficult and requires more specialised skills is I would suggest the main reason for insurance being more expensive. I would suggest that because of the special skills required the economics would in many cases favour panel replacement. Repairing Aluminum Body Panels With Collision Damage

By way of an example, I dented my son's Tesla. I caught a road sign on a ridiculously designed turn in a hilly NZ suburb. The panel in question was aluminium. This must add to the cost of the majority of repairs that the insurer has to pay for. Aluminium The second part of this blog were going to look at is aluminium. Teslas have aluminium panels – this material is a lot lighter than steel. But it’s a lot tougher and harder to repair. Unlike steel, it has no “metal memory”. This means when we perform a PDR repair on steel, the dented area stays in place once pushed, but aluminium doesn’t do this, as its so strong.

But insurance is just calculated not just on right off but on repairs from lesser accidents. I would guess that the majority of insurance claims would be for fender benders. The percentage of cars actually written off would surely be small. For example, if a 60k Tesla gets back into in a carpark it will probably cost more to repair than a 60k car that does not have aluminium panels.

A statement from the Insurance Council of Australia showed there were several reasons why the cost of insurance premiums for electric vehicles varied to petrol or diesel cars. In the first instance, electric vehicles were generally expensive vehicles to purchase. Dealing with damaged electric vehicle batteries is "time and labour consuming" and "required specialty equipment and disposal (recycling) methods", according to Ms Davies.(Getty: Sean Gallup) Other reasons included: The technology and parts in an electric vehicle are more expensive to produce and replace, specifically motor parts and battery Repairing damaged electric vehicles requires importing parts to Australia There are few electric vehicle service centres around Australia that can repair electric vehicles, vehicles may need to be transported to a distant location to be repaired Repairing electric vehicles requires specialty tradespeople, at present there are few of these trained people in Australia Dealing with damaged electric vehicle batteries is time and labour consuming. It also requires specialty equipment and disposal (recycling) methods The supply chain in Australia is in its infancy leading to higher costs, the situation here will not improve until the demand and then supply increases The ICA statement also pointed out "many factors are considered when calculating a premium".

No it isn't at least according to the Insurance Council of Australia. If your assertion was true then surely petrol and diesel Kias and Hyundais would also be expensive to insure given the fires which necessitated a recall of 3.4 million vehicles at least until fixed. https://apnews.com/article/hyundai-kia-engine-fire-recall-park-outside-93d012a52e7b884889cdaf2e6c22a458 "Hyundai and Kia are recalling nearly 3.4 million vehicles in the U.S. and telling owners to park them outside due to the risk of engine compartment fires." EVs, as I believe you have pointed out in the past are at this stage more expensive to repair (although less likely to need repair) and there are not (at this stage) so many qualified mechanics around.

We need not speculate on why EVs are more expensive to insure at this stage. Why speculate when we can find out the true answer? https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/why-are-electric-cars-more-expensive-to-insure/

I think conspiracists come from the far right and far left. Right-wing outlets such as Fox and News Max are full of conspiracies. As far as I can see it is the Majorie Tayor Greens of the world that are pushing the hardest against vaccination and science generally. There are left-wing nutters as well of course but I struggle to find a left-wing politician who is anti vax

Toyota claims it will be releasing its solid-state batteries in 2027 https://electrek.co/2024/01/11/toyota-solid-state-ev-battery-plans-750-mi-range/

Some EV batteries are liquid-cooled, and some are air-cooled. Here is an explanation of the Tesla Model 3 battery cooling system. Pretty interesting for those who are interested in learning new things. Tesla Model 3 - Cooling System Overview

A couple of interesting articles. "We are behind": Toyota's stunning admission about arch rival - but here's how the Japanese giant plans on levelling the score with the Tesla Model Y and Model 3 Toyota engineers call the Tesla Model Y a “work of art” – report

Cox Automotive UK acquires Bruntingthorpe operator C Walton Ltd

Is this based on experience or perception? Perhaps you could be more specific. I have driven a Tesla for a total of 4 weeks. My son who is passionate and extremely knowledgeable about cars generally is certainly not a Tesla fanboy. There are things about the Tesla that he thinks should be improved and things he thinks are brilliant. Apart from some warranty work and tyres in 4.5 years he has had no other repairs or servicing done (and he has used it for motorsport on a few occasions.) I would be the first to agree that Musk is a rather odious character. This does not however mean everything his companies have achieved is crap. Space X being contracted to NASA to transport astronauts to the iSS is quite remarkable. Again Musk is a dick but perhaps Henry Ford was also. As for the names of the head of BYD, Ford GMH etc I can name 2 out of 3 of those without looking them up. In terms of Tesla as I mentioned before I bought some shares. I did this not to make money but because I like to have a stake in the future. I don't want to be an old guy who can only look back. I bought these shares in 2019 when they were rock bottom and before Tesla was profitable. During this time so many people predicted it would fail or never be profitable. Many even suggested that Tesla was a scam. My prediction is that more than likely Tesla will still be profitable but more completion will reduce its growth. What is often forgotten is that Tesla is more than a car company. Tesla grid storage batteries are being built all around the world. Am I a Tesla fanboy - no I think they are very good cars and Tesla has definitely stimulated the EV industry which I think is good. Would I buy a Tesla? it depends on price but there are many good EVs on the market. I think anxiety over change drives a lot of EV commentary.

In Q1 2024, Tesla delivered 386,810 vehicles, marking an 8.5% decline from the same period last year. With its aggressive expansion in production capacity, Tesla appears to be contending with a growing stockpile of unsold vehicles. Production for the last quarter stood at 433,000 vehicles, indicating that an additional 47,000 cars were likely added to inventory. Reports and satellite images reveal unsold Teslas accumulating in parking lots across Texas, Australia, and Germany. Furthermore, Tesla’s global vehicle inventory, measured in days of supply, has increased from 15 days in Q1 2023 to 28 days in Q1 2024. Delivery times for Tesla have also decreased from up to six months in 2022 to just a few weeks for customized models.

This does not upset me but bemuses me. I am not sure about this particular picture however there are some photoshopped images floating around at the moment. I am well aware of Tesla motor Company's performance because I have some shares so I tend to check production numbers against sales numbers regularly. You do understand that IC car manufacturers and oil companies are very keen to push stories that suit their business interests, this surely should not surprise you. Tesla sales have declined this year although other manufacturers are having a better year. Car companies of all types go through cycles. Car production is always slightly behind sales figures, they can't predict how many cars they will sell next week. I find it interesting why people are so keen to post any story that appears (either true, untrue or partially true) that they come across as if it proves anything often without any fact-checking. The traditional car companies and oil companies just love these people. If I were going to make an observation regarding the state of EV sales I would not rely just on headlines or pictures which may or may not be real I would look for serious articles that quote real figures. Perhaps the article below will shed some light on the present situation Should Tesla’s Inventory Pileup Worry Investors?

I think there is a place for understanding and kindness however it does in my opinion rely on contrition and on the ceasing of the bad behaviour.

Someone (a member of the public) has to nominate him. After this, the Council for the Order of Australia then makes a recommendation to the Governor General You can only get an honour if a member of the public such as yourself nominates. https://www.gg.gov.au/australian-honours-and-awards/frequently-asked-questions/frequently-asked-questions-order-australia You can put in a nomination at any time so go for it.

I believe studies have identified a link between tipping and corruption when comparing 32 different countries. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258189717_Here_Is_a_Tip_Prosocial_Gratuities_Are_Linked_to_Corruption After all a tip is a kind of bribe when you think about it. I understand that in some countries wages for wait staff are low and are expected to be topped up with tips. I can see that it is quite an unfair system. Does the pretty young waiter get tipped more often than the porky bald wiater? Do staff in the kitchen get paid more to compensate for the fact that they do not interact with the public? Luckily in this country, we are in my experience not expected to tip. I do find the concept quite demeaning on both sides.

Depending on where you live a portion of electricity is clean. Every year the proportion of cleaner electricity grows. If you live in Tasmania then the grid supply is very clean. Even in places where some of the electricity comes from coal, there are still gains from the pollution being from a centralised source. Most power stations are not in the middle of the city or opposite a school. What is often forgotten is the energy inputs required to get crude oil from the ground into the tank of our car. The amount of fossil fuel and electricity required for the exploration, drilling and then transporting across the world, refining and delivering to the petrol station in a fossil-fueled ship is astounding. True and these ships transport oil across the world even before we burn it in our cars. EV or Gas, What Pollutes More?

This seems pretty up-to-date to me .Vehicle emissions may cause over 11,000 deaths a year, researchers say but you could do your own search and see what studies you can find. Whilst there has been much progress in reducing pollutants from IC cars there are still enough pollutants to cause negative outcomes. Air Pollutant Emissions carbon monoxide (CO), nitrogen oxides (NOx), particulate matter (PM); and volatile organic compounds (VOC).