turboplanner

This was the that: "A lot of this thread has been wasted by fatuous quotations from the Bible, wherever people could find something silly/lost in translation/clearly wrong, or where certain religions had behaved badly."

I am talking here on a scale of millions of students, not anyone's particular tiny little fragment of the whole.

This was the stone that was thrown Dutch, from the atheist corner. Personally, I don't have a problem if the State Governments analyse the cost of educating a child, and provide an equal cost to a Religious or independent school PROVIDED the standard of education of all schools brings the child to an equal level of preparedness and qualification for a start at University, or whatever career path the child has chosen. Financially, that means that the taxpayer pays the same amount to get a student to University age, whether by State School or Public School. so there shouldn't be any financial argument (other than from the hating zealots). A lot of this thread has been wasted by fatuous quotations from the Bible, wherever people could find something silly/lost in translation/clearly wrong, or where certain religions had behaved badly. Church schools offer a much broader foundation than that, teaching culture and values in life than an atheist culture doesn't do. It's a free choice in Australia - you can take the State School path or the Public School path and the difference doesn't result in mass killings. HOWEVER: One of the achilles heels of Parliaments, and the Westminster system is that governments tend to work on the issues of the day, and never go back after issues and emergencies are solved and remove the legislation, so we have this heavier and heavier burden on out taxpayer wallets. From time to time there are pro-active governments which set up "razor gangs", or start a policy of removing one old ACT for every new one, building "sunset" clauses into Acts etc. In general terms though, our taxes are increasingly soaked up by people ready to spend our money on this thought bubble or that, on refugees who are driving around in BMWs and Audis, on roads which are not essential, on public transport which has not been optimised. I would like to see a permanent advisory committee with the skills to be able to advise the government just what of our money should be spent where.

But atheists are heathens.

Better than funding a school for atheists then.

Better than funding a school for heathens.

Anyone know the origins of Prester John? It's an ancient name which is found in literature in several countries down through the centuries, may have some religious connotation.

Great idea Yenn, then we can save that 4,000 person salary bill, have no laws, and eat pizzas until we roll.

This tends to be done by religions and faiths which have gone off at a tangent, often with a money making strategy. If you look at the religious groups at the time Jesus the Christ was living, and before, you don't see that. The Ebionites didn't espouse it The Essenes, the ultra-conservative Jews didn't espouse it. They were the ones who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls at Qumran which have been gradually translated since 1948. The Nasoreans who emerged, or were part of the Essenes didn't espouse it. Membership of the Nasoreans was only through choice in adulthood. Jesus the Christ, who was a Nasorean, who went around lecturing on the religion came close but really was suggesting that people should do good and kind things. The Viracochas of South America, thousands of years before had also suggested people should do good things and treat other people well. Much of the confusion and opportunity for charlatans came in the poor translation of the original Old Testament where the core was 22 Jewish texts, starting with the translation from Hebrew to Aramaic just before or around the time of Jesus. For example "Not of this world" didn't mean "Heaven", just the people who were not the non-believers.

Goodbye is the shortened version of God be with ye.

Just a short straw poll here; when you are parting from someone, do you say "Goodbye"?

Deer have succeeded though, they are now right through the Victorian alps in the biggest numbers ever, providing excellent hunting. Same in the South East where you can see deer grazing in paddocks with sheep around Penola.

FT Warning: I'm about to write something about foxes. Amazing animals; there is a heavy population right through urban Melbourne. Our next door neighbour sells chooks and ducks, and despite buying a Marema to protect them, there's a stream of feathers radiating out from his property. One morning I saw a fox with a huge rooster in his jaws crossing our front lawn. I figured I had him trapped because the fences are sheep mesh but he just walked up to the fence, twisted and put the head through, twisted again and put the tail through and then just walked through, ignoring me.

He gave you the background to his thought FT, nothing wrong with that.

The foxes usually clean them up, even around farm houses. They can't fly far enough and they can't run fast enough.

Still can't help yourself regurgitate the goatskin comedy, can you. So much for your golden rule. If the tribe you are referring to is Moses, then you would be aware that he was trained over many years by Egyptian Priests and lived with the Pharao's family, and his story is certainly included in the Bible. However, you should also do some research on the Megalithic Yard and see what the scientists and engineers were doing before this to get a better picture of world history.

Unfortunately many people over time have come up with statements to suit their needs - usually to line their pockets or coerce others to their particular product. If you go back to the time of John the Baptist, unbelievers were simply welcomed into the church if they wished that.

I have never been told by any Minister, or even the Archbishop of Melbourne who confirmed me that not attending church would result in me burning in hell for all eternity, so this seems a bit fanciful to me. The ridiculous reference to goat herders, which you've repeated over and over again, even though a goat herder would be lucky to be able to engrave, let alone quote history would be a good example to apply to your golden rule.

Let me be very clear Octave, at no time have I wanted to convert you to a belief in God, and I have no intent to do that in the future. Hopefully that hasn't given you another opportunity to ask for a reference or proof. As far as answering all your questions, when I realised that this was a favourite game of yours I felt no further obligation to treat any of your questions seriously, or answer anything except off the cuff, without bothering to spend an hour or more researching because I thought you were genuinely interested. So you shouldn't expect anything other than off the cuff responses from me these days. As far as the "(which you can't)" comment, I'm not even going to bother trying, at any time on any subject. So you can needle all you like, give clever likes all you like but they are just going to float out there in the ether; I'm not interested.

There you go Here you go again Don - you not feeling well? You've been told several times and have the opportunity to do your own research to confirm that civilizations have believed in God for thousands of years. You've been told the while there is definitely a link in the Old Testament to belief in God, not all the stories are provable, or realistic, just as in real life. It's interesting that some atheists on this thread are clinging to every word in the Bible, while out in the flying world are ridiculing the written word in relation to news and history. Poor mixed up souls; nothing to believe in; no faith structure to build on; just endlessly repeating the same old cliches like mice on wheels.

I know you're mesmerised by the way these words of yours roll off the tongue, but we've covered this in detail. There is ample evidence of skills of civilizations who could measure the diameter of the earth and achieve architectural accuracy which we can't do to day, and who could communicate in written languages, but goat herders are unlikely to have been allowed anywhere near the chisels.

Really?, you are equating posting on this forum with atrocities and killing?

Still the questions

Not at all, I would like to see you say something of substance as people did in the original context of forums. Yes, I intend to and not just mitochondrial, but that could take months. I'm engaged in unpicking several ancestral family Illigitimacies over the next few months, and that might give me some practice.

Yes, but you could give it a rest for a while Octave, continually asking for the names of the survivors of the Titanic gets boring after a while. If we are writing a thesis then yes, we would be expected to provide a bibliography and references, but this is a simple forum.