turboplanner

Good one for a tin whistle player. There must be a teacup for me somewhere.

That reminds me, after some of you atheists endlessly demanding proofs, I'm yet to see any proof from you that God doesn't exist.

Fortunately I don't have to think up names for my belief, but I can understand you atheists get confused.

I told you all very early in the piece that a lot of information in the Bible has been corroborated in recent years (now it seems almost weekly). [No the whole Bible has not been corroborated, just in case the same person tries to use that again] Also being corroborated and discovered and dated on a massive scale is information about other civilizations. With TV programmes, I think more people are aware that if they dig up a green bronze sword it might be worth telling something. I did actually quote one exact date and time of day from the Bible and also the corroboration a few pages back, can't remember which one. The exact dates are coming from written records (copper scrolls, clay tablets etc), or in some cases can be placed after one even and before another, placing them in that year. In same cases carbon dating is used, and in some cases I'm reading about other dating methods. The most amusing verification method comes from former submarine Captain Gavin Menzies who wrote the book 1421 when he says, after denuding China and much of Vietnam of timber to build the Forbidden City, Emperor Zhu Di despatched an armada of ships, many over 500 feet long to several parts of the world where they visited North America, South America, Australia, New Zealand, Africa India and then, when a lightning strike burnt down his new City, thinking he had offended the gods with such an ambitious project, stoped the project and destroyed all they they had found. Menzies wrote circumstantially - for example he poinyted out as evidence they visited South America, Asian chickens which have a distinctly different crow to Europeans. He also claimed the Mahogany Ship buried at Warrnambool was one of the fleet, in fact 650 pages full of amazing facts and evidence about their discoveries. His work on expanding their maps with longitude corrections, since he knew all the oceam currents, and the chinese didn't, expanded their maps from distorted lumps to the continents that we know today. He was torn to pieces by the archaeological community, but having made millions from the book fought back with 25 researchers and DNA sampling in most of the countries, and has beaten the old boys senseless, For example the Chinese DNA in one group of American Indians was so strong they they would be more correctly called Chinese.

Our BC calendar is continue to go backwards without a gorilla in sight. BC 800,000 Age of Double handed axes found Africa (Dr Thomas Strasser) 398,000 Oldest human remains http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au/news/2013/12/131204-human-fossil-dna-spain-denisovan-cave/ 130,000 Age of quartz axes, cleavers, scrapers found southwest Crete (Dr Thomas Strasser) 100,000 People left Bogazkoy to populate Crete (Gavin Menzies) 34,525 Egypt: Zep Tepi golden age starts with arrival of Seven Sages, The Ancestor 33,000 First radio-metrically dated remains of cro-magnon man 28,000 First evidence of religious practice 20,625 Egypt: End of rule of The Ancestors, start of rule of Followers of Horus 12,000 Grindstones used for flour production 9,600 Egypt: End of rule of The Followers of Horus, start of rule of mortal kings 9,400 Atlantis destroyed (Plato) 9,000 Animal husbandry developed in Mesopotamia 7,000 Birth of Minoan civilization 5,500 Irrigation systems used in Sumer 3,400 First walled cities in Egypt 3,250 Earliest known writing in Sumer 3,200 Egypt: Secret king-making ceremony, beginning of Pharaonic system 3,000 First Egyptian hieroglyphics 1500-1450 Most Probable period for the Exodus under Moses 972 Solomon builds temple to Yahweh on Temple Mount in Jerusalem c360 Plato writes Timaeus and Criticas, Atlantis story 300 – 100 AD Dead Sea scrolls written, discovered at Qumran Caves between 1946 and 1956 and are still being translated. About 40% relate to the Hebrew Bible. 187 Earliest date for Qumran Community 6 Probable date of birth of Jesus

You might have me there, I thought, should I look it up, isn't that the Lemurian aircraft? I thought about Lemuria, but not sure if they believed in God. It starts to get a bit tiring wading into historic data when first you have to find out what God's name was in Sanskrit. Anyway, the Lemurians (Lemuria is believed to be a sunken island to the set of Sri Lanka and the southern tip of India. The Lemurians and Atlanteans fought aerial wars with advanced weapons.

...................Still going back in history with references in belief in God Atlantis Plato (Source, Wikipedia) The book “The True History of Mankind over the Last 100,000 Years”, housed in the Great Library of Alexandria, would have been very helpful to us to track mention of God back in history, but it was destroyed when the library was burnt down. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria However there are still a lot of valuable references. Plato wrote Timaeus and Criticas c360 BC He was a Greek Philosopher and Mathematician, a student of Socrates, and was significantly influenced by Pythagoras [who was taught by Egyptian Priests] He founded the Academy in Athens, the first institution of higher learning in the western world Plato travelled to Egypt Source: Wikipedia I wanted to find out more detail of Atlantis, so I bought the book It was an eerie feeling to be reading words written over 2,300 years ago (albeit translated from Greek). Here’s a segment confirming a reference to God when discussing the creation of the world: Socrates: Excellent, Timaeus; and we will do precisely as you bid us. The prelude is charming, and is already accepted by us -- may we beg of you to proceed to the strain? Timaeus: Let me tell you then why the creator made this world of generation. He was good, and the good can never have any jealousy of anything. And being free from jealousy, he desired that all things should be as like himself as they could be. This is in the truest sense the origin of creation and of the world, as we shall do well in believing on the testimony of wise men: God desired that all things should be good and nothing bad, so far as this was attainable. Wherefore also finding the whole visible sphere not at rest, but moving in an irregular and disorderly fashion, out of disorder he brought order, considering that this was in every way better than the other. Now the deeds of the best could never be or have been other than the fairest; and the creator, reflecting on the things which are by nature visible, found that no unintelligent creature taken as a whole was fairer than the intelligent taken as a whole; and that intelligence could not be present in anything which was devoid of soul. For which reason, when he was framing the universe, he put intelligence in soul, and soul in body, that he might be the creator of a work which was by nature fairest and best. Wherefore, using the language of probability, we may say that the world became a living creature truly endowed with soul and intelligence by the providence of God. He goes on to describe the world as a sphere. Atlantis is discussed in the second, “Criticas”, section and can be briefly summarised: · Atlantis was the home of the god Poseidon, the god of the sea (so one god) · It was an island · A temple was built on the central hill, housing a gold statue of Poseidon riding a chariot pulled by winged horses · The people traded with Europe and Africa · The island had rings of canals with other radial canals · The City of Atlantis was outside the outer canal and was about 1.7 km in diameter · Beyond the city was a fertile plain 530 x 190 km · There were mountains to the north · Among the animals living on the island were elephants · Atlantis was destroyed by warring and sank beneath the sea I bought the book in 2003, and my first reaction after reading it was that it was just a work of fiction, a bit of a laugh. I’ve started to look more carefully now, since more and more circumstantial evidence is emerging. Its location has been described in several writings as ‘beyond the Pillars of Heracles’ (today known as Hercules). The European pillar is the Rock of Gibraltar and the North African pillar is Jebel Musa, at the junction of the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean. However so far no one has found solid evidence, however, for this thread we don’t have to go to that detail, and nor do we have to discuss their laser weapons, or central power source which drive their Vimanas in which they could travel through the air and under the water, because we already have the esteemed historic quote by Plato.

You can still see where they quarried their tools on Coopers Creek, and on the northern side stone relics lined lup to look like walls in a house.

There are still huge middens in the South East of South Australia. When I was a kid I was told the aborigines threw them there after a feast and over the years the midden built up. These days I wonder why they would walk the distance from the sea to throw them in the exact same spot

Here's the link to the King Hubbert paper (sorry I had the date wrong) http://www.hubbertpeak.com/hubbert/1956/1956.pdf

They are reported as believing in God too, but I haven't found a good enough reference.

I posted several cost centres a while back, and while I haven't researched it, I suspect the biggest factor to date in the increased cost of diesel is excise/tax. After the fuel crisis of 1979 many of us switches to diesel engines, which at the time burnt much less than petrol engines, and the cost of diesel which was less expensive to refine than petrol was way cheaper. That change became a deluge, which would have reduced the excise intake by hundreds of millions of dollars. Today the fuel costs are about the same, and if you change over the current model Nissan Patrol within five years, your total Prime/Operating cost is lower with the petrol engine. My favourite 4WD was a Nissan 720 with about 80 hp - slow on the road but able to idle along on the dry sand at the top of the beach, or in mud up to the chassis. In 1986 I did a trip up the Newell Highway to Noosa, and spent a week on Fraser Island in Low Range. Fuel consumption was 7.91 km/litre over 4835 km - a total of 527 litres Total fuel cost at 0.45c/litre was $238.06 - a cheap holiday In my current Navara, with around twice the power, total fuel would be 15.9% more at 611 litres. However fuel cost at $1.53c/litre would make the total cost of fuel $802.39 - an increase of 340% So it's not surprising that people choose shorter trips these days, and in my case distribute my day to day money up the highways and around Queensland less than I used to. Dazza can tell us the horrific effect the fall off in tourism has wreaked on the Gold Coast (not all because of fuel cost). So I would argue the Federal and State Governments should change the way excise is rated in this huge country with such long distances. Going back to the cost centres of fuel, I suspect the evil oil giant is not creaming off our life savings - they are certainly smaller versions of what they used to be, and I suspect they are doing it hard in terms of profit on sales to distributors - and we know being a fuel distributor is a good way of going out of business. I'm not sure if any of you have ever heard of peak oil, but M. King Hubbert who worked in the US oil industry made a prediction in 1954 that the economic recovery of oil would peak around the end of the 20th century, and he was surprisingly accurate. After Peak Oil there is initially a gentle slide down the bell curve but inevitably costs rise sharply as oil reserves have to be pumped from deeper wells etc. The price was never expected to exactly reflect the sharpening fall of the bell curve, because it is affected by market forces and stocks above ground but what was expected was a series of ebbs and flows, with the price edging up with each cycle. Peak Oil is the reason I'm so keen to see alternative power. I've attached The Hubbert graph, by my reference file is too large, will see if I can find the link [ATTACH]47507._xfImport[/ATTACH]

It was late at night and they walked round the beach Dazz.

Just as a matter of interest, it is 418 km from Cairo to Jerusalem - 87 hours walk if someone parts the Red Sea for you. Moses and the Israelites took forty years to do it. You'd thinking someone would have said "Moses, are you SURE you know the way?"

They were actually looking for fallen engine parts to see what caused the problem.

The relevance of Egypt is that, with the exception of one single Pharaoh late in the sequence who was a bit odd and believed in Sun worship, they believed in God, so the belief evidence takes us back about ten times further than Jesus Christ. It goes back even further with a VHC, but I need to find some more accurate information before I lay that one on you.

Let's just pay off what Whitlam borrowed first, and wait for the parasites to die off and then we should be able to afford it.

They believed in God, and they believed they knew the secret to the afterlife FH; you atheists would have been on Desert Duty, keeping the Hyksos out and eating foxes.

We we building Mirages at Fishermans Bend

Well at least we know from recent discoveries by archaeologists that the people who built the pyramids were not slaves but local farmers who worked while waiting for their crops to ripen.

Well that was why I posted Petrie's comments. Dunn has put forward a method of drilling which we use today which leaves helical grooves and a taper as the too wears. We're free to observe the witness marks and come up with new ideas. The important thing about Dunn's work is that it's moving away from the "aliens did it" beliefs of the 1960's

It was Horsefeathers that called him a nutter; you referred to someone calling Graham Hancock a pseudoarchaeologist, and I gave you his background in #804. Because of his background career, I trust his measurements and his measurements support those of 19th Century archaeologist Sir William Flinders Petrie, who is know for his very precise measurements over years. Petrie's Core 7, cut with a tubular drill of some kind, shows a depth of spiral that is astounding, and the core waste is tapered. Dunn's hypothesis is that the only way we could do this today is with an ultrasonic drill which also leaves the tell-tale spiral groove and tapered core. He could be wrong. When he has been talking about saws, and tools the witness marks on the stone provide evidence of the tools/saws/saw tooth material, but his question over and over again is "what was it that held the tools?" We don't know. This is an extract from Petrie's book "Pyramids and Temple's of Gizeh", so you can see Petries description of Core 7, his measurements and conclusions, and also his opinion on what might have happened to the tools. I mentioned previously that when you move into a new house today, there are no tools, the builders have taken them with them, but that's still a burning question. 129.p 173. The methods employed by the Egyptians in cutting the hard stones which they so frequently worked, have long remained in doubt. Various suggestions have been made, some very impracticable; but no actual proofs of the tools employed, or the manner of using them, has been obtained. From the examples of work which I was able to collect at Gizeh, and from various fixed objects of which I took casts, the questions so often asked seem now to be solved. The typical method of working hard stones, such as granite, diorite, basalt, &c.,was by means of bronze tools ; these were set with cutting points, far harder than the quartz which was operated on. The material of these cutting points is yet undetermined ; but only five substances are possible: beryl, topaz, chrysoberyl, corundum or sapphire, and diamond. The character of the work would certainly seem to point to diamond as being the cutting jewel; and only the considerations of its rarity in general, and its absence from Egypt, interfere with this conclusion, and render the tough uncrystallized corundum the more likely material. Many nations, both savage and civilized, are in the habit of cutting hard materials by means of a soft substance (as copper, wood, horn, &c.), with a hard powder supplied to it ; the powder sticks in the basis employed, and this being scraped over the stone to be cut, so wears it away. It is therefore very readily assumed by many persons (as I myself did at first) that this method must necessarily have been also used by the Egyptians; and that it would suffice to produce all the examples now collected. Such, however, is far from being the case; though no doubt in alabaster, and other soft stones, this method was used. That the Egyptians were acquainted with a cutting jewel far harder than quartz, and that they used this jewel as a sharp-pointed graver, is put beyond doubt by the diorite bowls with inscriptions of the fourth dynasty, of which I found fragments at Gizeh. These hieroglyphs are incised, with a very free-cutting point; they are not scraped nor ground out, but are ploughed through the diorite, with rough edges to the line. As the lines are only 1/150 inch wide (the figures being about .2 long), it is evident that the cutting point must have been p 174 much harder than quartz; and tough enough not to splinter when so fine an edge was being employed, probably only 1/200 inch wide. Parallel lines are graved only 1/30 inch apart from centre to centre. We therefore need have no hesitation in allowing that the graving out of lines in hard stones by jewel points, was a well-known art. And when we find on the surfaces of the saw-cuts in diorite, grooves as deep as 1/100 inch, it appears far more likely that such were produced by fixed jewel points in the saw, than by any fortuitous rubbing about of a loose powder. And when, further, it is seen that these deep grooves are almost always regular and uniform in depth, and equidistant, their production by the successive cuts of the jewel-teeth of a saw appears to be beyond question. The best examples of equidistance are the specimens of basalt No.4(Pl. xiv.), and of diorite No.12; in these the fluctuations are no more than such as always occur in the use of a saw by hand-power, whether worked in wood or in soft stone. On the granite core, broken from a drill-hole (No.7), other features appear, which also can only be explained by the use of fixed jewel points. Firstly, the grooves which run around it form a regular spiral, with no more interruption or waviness than is necessarily produced by the variations in the component crystals ; this spiral is truly symmetrical with the axis of the core. In one part a groove can be traced, with scarcely an interruption, for a length of four turns. Secondly, the grooves are as deep in the quartz as in the adjacent felspar, and even rather deeper. If these were in any way produced by loose powder, they would be shallower in the harder substancequartz ; whereas a fixed jewel point would be compelled to plough to the same depth in all the components; and further, inasmuch as the quartz stands out slightly beyond the felspar (owing to the latter being worn by general rubbing), the groove was thus left even less in depth on the felspar than on the quartz. Thus, even if specimens with similarly deep grooves could be produced by a loose powder, the special features of this core would still show that fixed cutting points were the means here employed. That the blades of the saws were of bronze, we know from the green staining on the sides of saw cuts, and on grains of sand left in a saw cut. The forms of the tools were straight saws, circular saws, tubular drills, and lathes. 130.The straight saws varied from .03 to .2 inch thick, according to the work; the largest were 8 feet or more in length, as the cuts run lengthways on the Great Pyramid coffer, which is 7 feet 6 in. long. The examples of saw cuts figured in(Pl. xiv.). are as follow. No. 1, from the end of the Great Pyramid coffer of granite, showing where the saw cut was run too deep into the stuff twice over, and backed out again. No.2, a piece of syenite, picked up at Memphis; showing cuts on four faces of it, and the breadth of the saw by a cut across the top of it. This probably was a waste piece from cutting out a statue in the rough. No.3, a p 175 piece of basalt, showing a saw cut run askew, and abandoned, with the sawing dust and sand left in it; a fragment from the sawing of the great basalt pavement on the East of the Great Pyramid. No.4, another piece from the same pavement, showing regular and well-defined lines. No.5, a slice of basalt from the same place, sawn on both sides, and nearly sawn in two. No.6, a slice of diorite bearing equidistant and regular grooves of circular arcs, parallel to one another; these grooves have been nearly polished out by crossed grinding, but still are visible. The only feasible explanation of this piece is that it was produced by a circular saw. The main examples of sawing at Gizeh are the blocks of the great basalt pavement, and the coffers of the Great, Second, and Third Pyramids, the latter, unhappily, now lost. 131.Next the Egyptians adapted their sawing principle into. a circular, instead of a rectilinear form, curving the blade round into a tube, which drilled out a circular groove by its rotation ; thus, by breaking away the cores left in the middle of such grooves, they were able to hollow out large holes with a minimum of labour. These tubular drills vary from 1/4 inch to 5 inches diameter, and from 1/30 to 1/5 inch thick. The smallest hole yet found in granite is 2 inches diameter, all the lesser holes being in limestone or alabaster, which was probably worked merely with tube and sand. A peculiar feature of these cores is that they are always tapered, and the holes are always enlarged towards the top. In the soft stones cut merely with loose powder, such a result would naturally be produced simply by the dead weight on the drill head, which forced it into the stone, not being truly balanced, and so always pulling the drill over to one side ; as it rotated this would grind off material from both the core and the hole. But in the granite core, No.7, such an explanation is insufficient, since the deep cutting grooves are scored out quite as strongly in the tapered end as elsewhere; and if the taper was merely produced by rubbing of powder, they would have been polished away, and certainly could not be equally deep in quartz as in felspar. Hence we are driven to the conclusion that auxiliary cutting points were inserted along the side, as well as around the edge of the tube drill ; as no granite or diorite cores are known under two inches diameter, there would be no impossibility in setting such stones, working either through a hole in the opposite side of the drill, or by setting a stone in a hole cut through the drill, and leaving it to project both inside and outside the tube. Then a preponderance of the top weight to any side would tilt the drill so as to wear down the groove wider and wider, and thus enable the drill and the dust to be the more easily withdrawn from the groove. The examples of tube drilling onP1.xiv. are as follow : No. 7, core in granite, found at Gizeh. No.8, section of cast of a pivot hole in a lintel of the granite temple at Gizeh; here the core, being of tough homblende, could not be entirely broken out, and remains to a length of .8 inch. No.9, alabaster mortar, broken in course of manufacture, showing p 176 the core in place; found at Kom Ahmar (lat. 28 5'), by Prof. Sayce, who kindly gave it to me to illustrate this subject. No. 10, the smallest core yet known, in alabaster; found with others at Memphis, by Dr. Grant Bey, who kindly gave me this. No. 11, marble eye for inlaying, with two tube drill-holes, one within the other; showing the thickness of the small drills. No.12, part of the side of a drill-hole in diorite, from Gizeh, remarkable for the depth and regularity of the grooves in it No.13, piece of limestone from Gizeh, showing how closely holes were placed together in removing material by drilling; the angle of junction shows that the groove of one hole just overlapped the groove of another, without probably touching the core of the adjacent hole thus the minimum of labour was required. The examples of tube drilling on a large scale are the great granite coffers, which were hollowed out by cutting rows of tube drill-holes just meeting, and then breaking out the cores and intermediate pieces; the traces of this work may be seen in the inside of the Great Pyramid coffer, where two drill-holes have been run too deeply into the sides ; and on a fragment of a granite coffer with a similar error of work on it, which I picked up at Gizeh. At El Bersheh (lat. 27 42') there is a still larger example, where a platform of limestone rock has been dressed down, by cutting it away with tube drills about 18 inches diameter; the circular grooves occasionally intersecting, prove that it was merely done to remove the rock. 132.The principle of rotating the tool was, for sma!ler objects, abandoned in favour of rotating the work; and the lathe appears to have been as familiar an instrument in the fourth dynasty, as it is in modern workshops. The diorite bowls and vases of the Old Kingdom are frequently met with, and show great technical skill. One piece found at Gizeh, No.14, shows that the method employed was true turning, and not any process of grinding, since the bowl has been knocked off of its centring, recentred imperfectly, and the old turning not quite turned out; thus there are two surfaces belonging to different centrings, and meeting in a cusp. Such an appearance could not be produced by any grinding or rubbing process which pressed on the surface. Another detail is shown by fragment No.15; here the curves of the bowl are spherical, and must have therefore been cut by a tool sweeping an arc from a fixed centre while the bowl rotated. This centre or hinging of the tool was in the axis of the lathe for the general surface of the bowl, right up to the edge of it; but as a lip was wanted, the centring of the tool was shifted, but with exactly the same radius of its arc; and a fresh cut made to leave a lip to the bowl. That this was certainly not a chance result of hand-work is shown, not only by the exact circularity of the curves, and their equality, but also by the cusp left where they meet. This has not been at all rounded off as would certainly be the case in hand-work, and it is a clear proof of the rigidly mechanical method of striking the curves. p 177. Hand graving tools were also used for working on the irregular surfaces of statuary; as may be well seen on the diorite statue of Khafra found at Gizeh, and now at Bulak. 133.The great pressure needed to force the drills and saws so rapidly through the hard stones is very surprising; probably a load of at least a ton or two was placed on the 4 inch drills cutting in granite. On the granite core, No.7, the spiral of the cut sinks .1 inch in the circumference of 6 inches, or 1 in 60, a rate of ploughing out of the quartz and felspar which is astonishing. Yet these grooves cannot be due to the mere scratching produced in withdrawing the drill as has been suggested, since there would be about 1/10 inch thick of dust between the drill and the core at that part; thus there could be scarcely any pressure applied sideways, and the point of contact of the drill and granite could not travel around the granite however the drill might be turned about. Hence these rapid spiral grooves cannot be ascribed to anything but the descent of the drill into the granite under enormous pressure ; unless, indeed, we suppose a separate rymering tool to have been employed alternately with the drill for enlarging the groove, for which there is no adequate evidence. 134.That no remains of these saws or tubular drills have yet been found is to be expected, since we have not yet found even waste specimens of work to a tenth of the amount that a single tool would produce ; and the tools, instead of being thrown away like the waste, would be most carefully guarded. Again, even of common masons' chisels, there are probably not a dozen known; and yet they would be far commoner than jewelled tools, and also more likely to be lost, or to be buried with the workman. The great saws and drills of the Pyramid workers would be royal property, and it would, perhaps, cost a man his life if he lost one ; while the bronze would be remelted, and the jewels reset, when the tools became worn, so that no worn out tools would be thrown away. 135.Of the various other details of mechanical work mention is made in different sections of this volume. The red marking of the mason's lines is described insection 63. The use of testing-planes in working surfaces, insection 170. The use of drafted diagonals, insection 55. The character of the fine joints, insection 26. The accuracy of levelling, insection 26. The fitting of the courses one on the other, insection 41. The arrangement of the courses on the ground before building, insection 168. The lugs left for lifting the stones, insections 50,55, and63. The method of raising the stones, insection 169. The labour system employed on the Egyptian monuments insection 166. And the use of plaster, insection 128. A general statement of all these mechanical questions, with fuller details of some of the specimens and examples of work, will be found in a paper on the " Mechanical Methods of the Egyptians," in the Anthropological Journal. for 1883. http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/egypt/articles/hrdfact1.php Looking at the Mohs scale is critical when deciding who did what with which material in Egypt I agree, so there's nothing wrong with Hunt's suggestion. We also need to look at production speed. Petrie described the machining and polishing of the limestone casing which once covered the pyramids as "having an optician's precision, but on a scale of acres." The hunt for the tools/methods has been going on since the 1980's when the Egyptologists' explanations of simple tools started to come under question. I've mentioned the accurate symmetry of carving - for example the left eye being identical in reverse to the right eye - something we would expect from CNC in the 21st century, but not from chiseling, so there are still mysteries. No need to throw in the red herring of the Ark of the Covenant, or Indiana Jones - it just degrades the discussion.

Links? It would have to be books; in 1907 researcher Louis McCarty said that the volume of serious material on the Great Pyramid alone was already such that no single man could wade through it in a lifetime. Then there’s the rest of the Giza Plateau, then there’s several thousand square kilometres of physical evidence. I would recommend these books: ‘The Travellers Key to Ancient Egypt’ by John Anthony West. This is a light travel guide to the main artefacts and he talks about each one, so you get a sense of perspective about what item is in which part of the country. On Page 7 he says: “Every scholar who has ever studied Egypt has had to acknowledge that the corpus of knowledge was miraculously complete at the beginning. The predynastic remains show no evidence of writing, yet when the hieroglyphs appeared, they did so in complete form and coherency. “Mathematics, medicine, astronomy, mythology, symbolism, the elaborate pantheon of the god and goddesses, the complex texts of the Book of the Dead……all appear suddenly." · If it’s mathematics, you will find the things “discovered” much later by Pythagoras etc. · If it’s medicine the surgery and treatments which suddenly appeared were not equalled for centuries after the skills were lost. · If it’s astronomy, - they knew about precession, so they not only had to know that the earth was a · sphere but that it wobbled on its axis in a 26,000 year cycle. Another book by John Anthony West is “Serpent in the Sky – the high wisdom of Ancient Egypt” (1993) Christopher Dunn Since he was described as a nutter in an earlier post on this thread, I should explain a little about his background: · He is English, was recruited to aerospace manufacturing in the USA in 1969 · Has worked as a machinist, toolmaker, programmer and operator of high powered lasers. He therefore knows how to use a straightedge, and toolmaker’s tools. His early work is just observations of the building and machining techniques, most of which we use today, albeit with different power supply. Importantly, he is one of the people who provides a logical earthly alternative to the thinking of some that these artefacts were built by aliens. The technologies of those ancient times are completely lost by today’s Egyptians. A friend of mind worked with a Cairo truck distribution operation for a short time, and tells me the Egyptians working there said the pyramids were built by aliens. So Christopher Dunn brings us back to earth. These two articles show his early work. Article by Christopher Dunn – ‘Advanced Machining in Ancient Egypt” http://www.gizapower.com/Advanced/Advanced%20Machining.html\ Photos by Christopher Dunn – ‘Prehistoric Machined Artefacts http://www.gizapower.com/Advanced/Advanced%20Machining.html If you are interested, I would recommend his book ‘Lost Technologies of Ancient Egypt: Engineering in the Temples of the Pharaohs’. Some background, to understand the techniques he is portraying; before the digital era I was trained in Industrial Design. When coming up with a new product, you can draw it free hand, but if someone else has to produce it, that shape has to be reproduced by machines. One technique involves French Curves and here is an example of my French Curves (S2764) They don’t look all that beautiful or stylish, but what we do is make a compound curve by marking small sections on the French Curve with a pencils, and then putting each of these sections together to make the finished curved. I frequently used two particular sections on these curves to make good looking car lines (S2765) Here’s an extract from the book: http://www.gizapower.com/LoTeAnArticle.htm When a sculptor chisels a human figure in stone, he may reproduce some of the lopsidedness of the human body, as well as his own inaccuracies, Christopher Dunn is able to show that these huge statues and artefacts were machined from the very hard stone, with an accuracy which, for example, could produce a perfectly symmetrical face. In the link, you can see how the face is made up of circles which indicate the type of tool used to carve the face. This is a skill which no hunter/gatherer would gain overnight, and which we would not have done will before CNC. If you want to then go on to his hypothesis on the Great Pyramid you will be armed with a bit better understanding than the “nutter” content presented to this site earlier. I've just picked out some basic information on technology, but the language and symbolism could occupy someone for years. [ATTACH]47505._xfImport[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]47506._xfImport[/ATTACH]

I'm sure it's very true, just the 256th version of the story which has travelled through Europe and the USA and other parts of the world. The only problem is that about 256 different Companies/Governments/Oil Industries/Moguls bought the idea, so if it makes money each person involved only gets 1/200,000 of the fuel product, which is...............part/most/all water - available from the garden tap.

It does appear to be unconscionable, but many of the retailers have been forced out of business, so although they change prices at the same time that can mean they watch each other like hawks, adjusting price to keep customers coming in, or claw back some profit when the first phone call comes in from one of their outlets. The second issue is the Fraser government locking us in to Singapore Crude price, and the third and biggest problem is excise, other incremental taxes and GST on the cost, margins, and excise/taxes. Wouldn't be critical in a country like Japan where the public transport system is so good you don't need a car anywhere. But with Australia''s population spread over vast distances, particularly that put us in the position of having to exceed the air power point of 80 km/hr (where power proportionate to frontal area is soaked up just pushing the wind out of the way), our policies are just plain wrong, working against decentralisation.