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I hope you paid Ian for your Ad M

Of course Adam and Eve were the first people who failed to read the full Apple instruction manual.

I wonder if some Egyptian went upriver on camping trip and got far enough south to see a Rhino, and came back telling a story about a horse with a horn on its head.

Octave, I answered your question in post #141 Same for you on evolution Horsefeathers, we've moved on to historical events which are more history related.

Octave, I, in good faith gave you enough material to follow up which would keep you busy for months, particularly things that were FACT and on this theory you keep talking about, so if you're not prepared to do a little work to educate yourself, you lose your credibility when you keep on asking other people to research it for you.

You might like to study what he said FH and where he is positioning the Catholic Church.

No it's not my problem, it's a matter of common decency.

Geoffrey, would you mind explaining what's funny about this post, since it's fact?

If you're bored Dafydd why not look at other threads for forget about the internet. Just don't write the poison you just wrote, it's just plain bloody disgusting.

Adding to what Gnarly said, you have to be careful to separate out the Roman Catholic church based information. What Saul did was appalling in engineering history to create a money making operation, and I'll post some information on it as soon as I can.

Noahs Ark Anything made of wood is usually gone within about 80 years unless it is fossilised, under water, or well and truly buried, so we wouldn't expect to find much. Research in the last 20 years has uncovered flood myths which are almost identical in hundreds of unconnected civilizations - too many for the flood stories not to be genuine. However, to suggest one man could round up two of every species in the world and fit them all into a vehicle the size of the Ark doesn't match the volume of the animals, and you would need to match that enormous task with loading their diets for forty days and nights. Most of the stories date to about 15,000 years ago, the end of the last ice age, and before that what is now referred to as the Mediterranean sea was a valley with a river flowing into the Atlantic. Scientists in recent years have calculated that there isn't enough ice and humidity to raise the oceans high enough to cover all the land in the world, and there wasn't ever. So it seems the ancient stories referred to that particular civilization's "world" Ark of the Covenant It sat in or under Solomons Temple for years, like an FX Holden gathering dust. If Solomon's son Menelik stole it and took it to Egypt, it may well be sitting in a little church there now, guarded only by priests. Apparently the current church roof sprang a leak and they're building a new one for it. Roslyn Chapel in Scotland is an exact replica of Solomon's Temple and the elaborate tunnel network under it took several years to complete in total secrecy before the above ground structure was started. Key Knights Templar requested to be buried under the Chapel (which was never used as a Chapel) so the could be close to something, so it could be there. In researching following some comments by Marty regarding the Gothic Cathedrals built by the Knights Templar, I was blown away yesterday by what I found - they are MONSTERS. Chartres Cathedral for example has an internal height of 37 metres - 121 feet! It's spires are 113 metres high - 370 feet! Matching the 37 metre ceiling height is a well 37 metres deep, and the sympathetic measurements, where one measurement is a fraction or a multiple of another just go on and on right to the unique load carrying ogives which are based on the a pointed star, all unmistakably Egyptian. Yet at the time the population of Chartres was only about 3000. M.Luis Carpenter, a French Author suggests the Ark is buried under Chartres Cathedral. Who knows, but it's likely to give you a hell of a kick if you find it and touch it.

You would need to study some more detail, particularly Old Testament to grasp that God had difficulty with the bad ones from day one. I don't recall any promises that you could get sick and not die, get drunk and crash your car yet survive or even just be sitting in the sun and have an aircraft land on your head either. There's a joke about a flood, where a man climbed on to his roof to escape the water. Some men in a boat cam past and offered to rescue him but he said "No thanks, God will protect me" Another boat came past and made the same offer, but he just said "No thanks, God will protect me" Some time later, with the water still rising, a helicopter came by and lowered a rescuer to the roof who offered to rescue him, but again he said "No thanks, God will protect me." The water continued to rise and eventually covered the roof and he drowned. He was greeted at the Pearly Gates by St Peter who asked "How are you today?" "I'm pissed off!" the man said "I've prayed to God all my life, and just when I needed him he turned his back on me" St Peter said "Well he sent two boats and a helicopter, what more do you want!"

You'll just have to pay more attention to thread headings and categories.

I'll do some more digging

Well if you start on Creationism you'll touch off another set of paradigms, and if you take the next path of catastrophism things should get really cooking.

Nikola Tesla found a way to transmit electricity through the air - I think lighting globes up about 18 miles away then built this tower. http://www.teslasociety.com/tesla_tower.htm

If you want to call us stupid it's a free world. If you, as you explained look at a gorilla and look in a mirror and see where you came from, who am I to argue. Many of the rest of us are starting to reap the benefits of new technology and research, and know different. You would have gagged the thread at post #104 - we've had one of the most interesting debates in a number of years with a lot of us opening our minds and learning new things we'd never thought of and we're out to post #485 without being bored. Atheist dating has by no means taken hold; if the Jewish people say they don't need it that's good enough for me.

\ In normal circumstances I would agree with you, because working in design I usually look at an existing product, research what the market wants, and try to design something better, and these days, more cost effective. Now and again someone makes a breakthrough, like Alex Issigonis with the Mini, a jet engine is invented etc, but it is usually a process of evolution. For example, today's architecture mostly dates back through the German Bauhaus and Frank Lloyd Wright to the breakthrough of Hatshepsut's Memorial Temple. Hapshepsut, a woman became co-Pharaoh in Egypt with her stepson in 1473 BC and died in 1458 BC. Her greatest achievement was the memorial ar Deir el-Bahri. http://discoveringegypt.com/ancient-egyptian-kings-queens/hatshepsut/ In looking at the photo of the temple, the design could be built as a corporate office today and wouldn't look out of place. That's why I spent time dwelling on evolution, and how our perceptions have gone through a paradigm revolution with new information in the last 20 years or so. I've been posting information from memory which has come from 500 page books, and when someone queries something I've gone back to the books for the information, but you can't squeeze hundreds of pages into a forum post, particularly the background, research and detailed explanations of what happened. In the case of the Cathedrals, the key to the mystery is that these designs didn't evolve. There was no evolutionary process of structural development, just an extremely complex structural design which used several different unheard of principles to carry the weight. In the link I posted there is a cross section which shows an inner support section for the cathedral, keystone, arches etc. There was a documentary on the design in the last year or so, and it took an hour or two to cover each complementary step in the structure. And I mentioned that none of the Templars who built these amazing structures had any engineering experience.

I couldn’t find the University I mentioned, but believe it was MIT, I was remembering from about 30 years ago, but did find one MIT reference about changing something. There are a lot of stories suggesting the Ark design is a powerful capacitor, building an electrical charge up over time and releasing it all at once – similar to a Leyden Jar. Benjamin Franklin thought he could kill a Turkey with a charge but only succeeded in knocking himself unconscious. http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/106/reengineering_the_ark.html Mythbusters built one but only produced a tiny spark. I can’t vouch for this one, only found it today and it was an unfinished project when published, but it does give some theories and show an attempt to build one http://www.hutchisoneffect.ca/Ark%20Of%20The%20Covenant%20II.php The Ark of the Covenant was carried into battle at Jericho, being carried around the walls for seven days preceded by priests sounding trumpets of rams’ horns, before the walls fell down. If we look at what knowledge is around on an instrument which either transmits electricity, or enhances sympathetic resonance: Nikola Telstra’s work in the 19th and 20th Century in producing resonance and transmitting electricity some miles is similar. http://www.damninteresting.com/teslas-tower-of-power/ The civilization attributed to Atlantis is claimed to have powered aircraft from a central source and possessed weapons which could transmit electric beams. The Ark may well date back to a time before the Egyptians, but it certainly stretches the imagination to suggest that the God which created everything from darkness had to be carried around in an acacia box by the Israelites for forty years, all the while spitting and snarling.

You might have to go back to God then. There are stories that under attack from Muslims the people of Jerusalem buried their treasure and secrets under Solomons Temple. which had been built in 1000 BC and housed the Ark of the Covenant. (The Qumran copper scroll tells how the Qumran community hid its treasures under Herod’s Temple shortly before AD70 The Knights Templar were established in northern France to protect pilgrims on their way to Jerusalem. They established themselves as "The Order of the Poor Soldiers of Christ and the Temple of Solomon, and the earliest evidence of them was 1121 AD Nine of them spent ten years excavating under the Temple of Solomon on what is Temple Mount today. At the time they were excavating the building above ground was King Herod's Temple. The excavations finished abruptly and they went back to France quickly becoming some of the richest and most powerful people in the world, inventing the cheque and eventually founding Switzerland. They also immediately started building cathedrals - not the traditional churches which required walls several metres thick to support the roof loads and having tiny windows, but massive structures not only with egg shell thin walls but with massive windows. None of them were engineers or architects and the speed with which they developed these revolutionary skills was stunning. Chartres Cathedral was one of their designs and it was built between 1194 and 1250 AD. The engineering is easy for us to understand today http://www.cathedrale-chartres.org/architecture-cathedrale-chartres but was unknown to the world, without any evolutionary development before that era. The end for the Templars came on Friday 13th October 1307 when King Phillip of France tried to kill the lot out of jealousy, but many escaped along with their fleet of ships.

You'll be a long time then. The Ark of the Covenant was an instrument or appliance which Moses stole from Egypt. It certainly wasn't an empty box with a couple of tablets of stone inside. Moses had been mentored by the Pharaoh's family and priests in Egypt and knew most of the technology, and this was a neat piece of equipment. There were strict instructions for its handling including the insulation required by anyone working near it or carrying it. The Israelites were simple people and had no understanding and believed Yahweh live in it and he seemed to be a snarling spitting monster - this could equally be the sights and sound of very high voltage. The story about the ten commandments on two tablets of stone could have been as a result of various people disregarding the "Danger Do Not Touch" instruction and being fried - apparently the took more notice of God. It was reputed to be able to level stone military walls and kill people in large numbers and was used in battle by the Israelites for years. At one stage even Moses got careless and it burned off half his face. From that time he wore a leather covering over is disfigured head. One of the US Universities built an Ark from the detailed specification in the Bible and it produced a current. The Ark was stored in Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem for many years, but disappeared and there was an inference that Solomon's son stole it, and while Graham Hancock traced its path from various texts back to Egypt and eventually to Ethiopia the story ended with a fairly unsatisfactory exchange where an Ethiopian priest allegedly guarding the Ark said it was indeed in a particular Church, but not available for viewing. If it was found it might only confirm it was a machine which the Egyptians had designed a military weapon, or had been given to them by the VHC which taught those hunter gatherers brilliant skills almost overnight - certainly without any evidence of evolution.

He should be in the Ark of the Covenant last I heard. Never heard of slaughtering virgins to boost the crop - they'd be hard to find anyway. People get mixed up (justifiably) between God and Jesus Christ's feelgood era, which is why I posted some of the home truths about him. When we peel back a little further God is not portrayed as a one sided forgiving entity and there are some gruesome stories in the Bible with some corroboration starting to come in as digital information is shared.

Don't worry GG, I'm on his ignore list and he regularly comments on my posts that he doesn't see. Dishing it out is easier than taking it apparently.

I notice the Atheist posters seem hell bent on censorship of other people's children, particularly the very light religious instruction in schools. I can't ever remember anyone telling me to study any gruesome stories as if my life depended on it take religious materials home etc. and that I must believe what I was told because that was true. On the other hand I can't remember ever being told the fairytales that were read to me were pure fiction. In fact I was a lot more scared of them. Here's a link to ten of the worst: http://flavorwire.com/344667/the-disturbing-origins-of-10-famous-fairy-tales I think some of the people here might just be a little insecure with their non-beliefs.

Well so far no one has proved he didn't, and since Atheists don't believe there's no point wasting time on it.