Constitution

[old man emu]

Try comparing mortality rates in Europe in the late 18th and most of the 19th Century with mortality rates in indigenous peoples in the rest of the world. They would be on par.

 

Thin and hungry? How about not obese and satiated?

 

Germ theory of disease?

 

Basic forms of germ theory were proposed in the late Middle Ages by physicians including Ibn Sina in 1025, Ibn Khatima and Ibn al-Khatib in the 14th century, and Girolamo Fracastoro in 1546, and expanded upon by Marcus von Plenciz in 1762. However, such views were held in disdain in Europe, where Galen's miasma theory remained dominant among scientists and doctors. A transitional period began in the late 1850s with the work of Louis Pasteur. Viruses were discovered in the 1890s. By the end of the 1880s, the miasma theory was struggling to compete with the germ theory of disease. Eventually, a "golden era" of bacteriology ensued, during which the theory quickly led to the identification of the actual organisms that cause many diseases.

 

It is believed that in most cases incidents that were described as inter-tribal warfare were actually armed expeditions that were socially sanctioned for a particular purpose, such as to avenge a death, or to punish an offender. It is ridiculous to think that groups of people living within established territorial boundaries over hundreds of years where food and shelter were sufficient for everyone's needs, would spend their time in mortal combat with neighbours for no apparent gain.

 

 

[willedoo]

It is believed that in most cases incidents that were described as inter-tribal warfare were actually armed expeditions that were socially sanctioned for a particular purpose, such as to avenge a death, or to punish an offender. It is ridiculous to think that groups of people living within established territorial boundaries over hundreds of years where food and shelter were sufficient for everyone's needs, would spend their time in mortal combat with neighbours for no apparent gain.

That's quite right, OME. Possibly there were odd tribes who didn't get along in general, but most were as you described. A lot of fighting was token, to avenge a murder, or a raiding party that pinched a few roos from some other tribes land where they weren't supposed to be without an invite. In spite of strict tribal law, due to human nature, they had the odd bad egg just like our society. That could give rise to a murder not sanctioned by the murderer's tribe, so honour reprisals were the thing.

 

Another common reason was women. To avoid too much inbreeding, wives were stolen from each other's tribes and custom and honour dictated that the tribe who suffered the loss would avenge the offence. In a lot of areas, many tribes came together for big meetings at set times; for trade or ceremonial purposes or both. I remember once in SW Qld., either Durham or Karmona, coming across a big creek system with literally many hundreds of fireplaces along a stretch of the creek bank, probably over a distance of 200 metres. Way too many for the normal population and lifestyle of the local tribe. It looked to me like one of those meeting places where other tribes came from miles around to an annual festival.

 

Also, reasonable relations between tribes would have been necessary for trade, which was prolific. In the north of South Australia, the stone axes are made from a stone that doesn't exist there. It came from a long way down into NSW, and was probably traded through several tribal areas on established trade routes before reaching it's destination.

 

 

[old man emu]

I think our ideas of the history of the common man have been well and truly tainted by the Victorian-era biases of middle and upper class antiquarians who believed that mankind had no civilization until those of the Middle East arose. Those Victorians also believed that civilization only arose in Europe.

 

In the past 30 or so years, investigation of pre-Roman sites in Britain has shown that long distance trade was commonplace for millennia across Europe amongst the "barbarians". The evidence can be found in Australia of these long distance trade routes. Ancient trading was not done to accumulate symbols of wealth. It was done to acquire things that made survival easier or had other desired uses. Take the Gweagal clan of the southern shores of Botany Bay (the first Aborigines to cop lead shot from Cook's mob). White pipe clay could be found in their country. This clay was important as ceremonial "make up", so they traded it to and through other clans to get things that did not exist in their country.

 

It is an interesting aside to consider that Aborigines refer to their clan areas with words that translate as "country". Are they using the word "country" in the way we do to refer to personal real estate, or does it refer to what we also call the physical location of out political unit?

 

 

[pmccarthy]

See the new edition of Dark Emu (Aboriginal Australia and the birth of agriculture) by Bruce Pascoe.

 

 

[Yenn]

There can be no doubt that the white man took over Aboriginal Australia. Much to the dismay of the aboriginals, but that is what has been happening since man first appeared.

 

The country of my birth has been invaded and the original inhabitants been evicted more than once. In fact the existing inhabitants like to re enact some of the dubious historical facts and don't really know where they came from. It is a fact that as long as mans backside has pointed to the earth he has had a wonderful time killing his neighbours. It goes on even today, for no real reason.

 

I still wonder what the proposed constitutional change will be. Would anyone like to venture a proposal?

 

 

[old man emu]

I still wonder what the proposed constitutional change will be. Would anyone like to venture a proposal?

Therein lies the problem! People are talking about constitutional change, but no one has proposed any change. As I've said earlier, the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act only deals with the manner in which the Commonwealth of Australia has its laws made, taxation imposed and trade is carried on. Its only reference to race is

 

25 Provision as to races disqualified from voting

 

For the purposes of the last section, if by the law of any State, all persons of any race are disqualified from voting at elections for the more numerous House of the Parliament of the State, then,

 

in reckoning the number of the people of the State or of the Commonwealth,

 

persons of that race resident in that State shall not be counted.

 

PREAMBLE

 

Title to land traditionally occupied by Aboriginal people is governed by the Native Title Act 1993 and explained in the Preamble to that Act

 

The people whose descendants are now known as Aboriginal peoples and Torres Strait Islanders were the inhabitants of Australia before European settlement.

 

They have been progressively dispossessed of their lands. This dispossession occurred largely without compensation, and successive governments have failed to reach a lasting and equitable agreement with Aboriginal peoples and Torres Strait Islanders concerning the use of their lands.

 

As a consequence, Aboriginal peoples and Torres Strait Islanders have become, as a group, the most disadvantaged in Australian society.

 

The people of Australia voted overwhelmingly to amend the Constitution so that the Parliament of Australia would be able to make special laws for peoples of the aboriginal race.

 

The Australian Government has acted to protect the rights of all of its citizens, and in particular its indigenous peoples, by recognising international standards for the protection of universal human rights and fundamental freedoms through:

 

(a) the ratification of the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination and other standard‑setting instruments such as the International Covenants on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and on Civil and Political Rights; and

 

(b) the acceptance of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; and

 

© the enactment of legislation such as the Racial Discrimination Act 1975 and the Australian Human Rights Commission Act 1986.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Try comparing mortality rates in Europe in the late 18th and most of the 19th Century with mortality rates in indigenous peoples in the rest of the world. They would be on par.

Thin and hungry? How about not obese and satiated?...

Right on, OME.

 

European explorers died like flies from scurvy and other dietary ailments while ignoring the advice and help offered by healthy "savages". Why were First Nation people so healthy? An active lifestyle, a varied diet and extensive use of local medicinal plants- knowledge which was swept away by ignorant white invaders.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... The evidence can be found in Australia of these long distance trade routes. Ancient trading was not done to accumulate symbols of wealth. It was done to acquire things that made survival easier or had other desired uses...

Pre-invasion trade routes covered much of the continent. Trade with Asian was so intensive that the white government saw it as a threat to revenue, so banned it in the early years of the 20th century.

 

Macassan Traders

 

Nhulunbuy Corporation

 

How ancient Aboriginal star maps have shaped Australia's highway network

 

 

[Bruce]

If you read Jared Diamond's book " guns, germs and steel" you will find a scholarly account of life in tribal and chiefdom societies. Nobody has ever accused Diamond of being racist.

 

I have recounted this here before, but I have it ( almost) first hand that aborigines who know count themselves better off after whites took over. Well the old guy at Yuendumu certainly said this to his grand-daughter. Quite an achievement to find this out , I thought . I had wondered this for about 50 years.

 

And why? "because there was all this killing" before. There are good reasons why this was. I sure hope we don't relive that part of our history.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"It is believed that in most cases incidents that were described as inter-tribal warfare were actually armed expeditions that were socially sanctioned for a particular purpose, such as to avenge a death, or to punish an offender. It is ridiculous to think that groups of people living within established territorial boundaries over hundreds of years where food and shelter were sufficient for everyone's needs, would spend their time in mortal combat with neighbours for no apparent gain."

 

The GAIN is what ever they steal from the loser, Land, woman, & slave labour. Just like the Invader's have done.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[old man emu]

And next week the aggrieved clan come across your border ti nick things you have and they want? Sounds terribly like the Picts jumping Hadrians Wall to score a few head of cattle.

 

 

[nomadpete]

You are suggesting that the Australian indigenous have been practicing a ancient anglo-european behaviour?

 

 

[nomadpete]

I think some guy by the name Hammurabi tried to lay down some guidelines (laws) back in twelfth century BC, to stop those tribal and family disputes.....

 

I don't think he tried to help the Australians, though.

 

You know, who sleeps with whom, who takes too much of somebody's food or wealth, etc.

 

Seems like it's been a problem for quite some time, and doesn't look like our society has made much progress towards controlling it either.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"And next week the aggrieved clan come across your border ti nick things you have and they want? "

 

Exactly like Germany retaking it's plunder of the first world war, back into "Heir Hitler's hands".

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

[ATTACH]50177._xfImport[/ATTACH]

[spacesailor]

Harbour bridge climb !. (Bridge Climb Discount: book directly for the best price.)

 

Better than just Canberra City views. I M H O.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Bridge Climb Discount: book directly for the best price.[/url])Better than just Canberra City views. I M H O.

 

spacesailor

I think I’m missing something subtle here.

 

 

[spacesailor]

WHO wants to see "Fat, baldy pollies, strolling from parliament, more of them than good looking opposite sex. (just being gender correct.)

 

Even had "RocketMan today. David Mayman ( Aussie inventor flies jetpack around Statue of Liberty )

 

Ten year's to get his dream: flying Without wings.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

There is a German Prince who is trying to get his ancestral lands back from the German government. who are trying every trick in the book Not to repatriate his land.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

Climbing the war memorial would be fine by most people if the track were done properly. Returning to the Rock, it makes me angry that the aborigines can seek to destroy it as an income-earning thing without any financial penalty to themselves.

 

Of course the aborigines have a taboo against anything that would use scarce calories. Football and climbing come to mind, but football has not yet come to their minds.

 

Worse than the ban on climbing is the ban on walking around the base. Yep, you now have to look from quite some distance. If looking is also banned, what will happen I wonder.

 

 

[Bruce]

We had a young Swiss tourist stay with us once. He said that Australia had only 3 things... The Great Barrier Reef, Ayers Rock and Kangaroo Island. ( yes, he said Ayers Rock and not Uluru )

 

Personally, I don't think KI is enough by itself to attract the Swiss. The Barrier Reef is being wrecked by climate change and pollution.

 

Kangaroo Island is unique in having been uninhabited for 10,000 years , on account of the aborigines who had lived there dying, probably from selenium deficiency. A lack of humans sure makes the vegetation unusual.

 

 

[facthunter]

There's a reason for the "climbing on it" problem. It was RARE for "them" to do it and only happened on occasions of great significance. . When I was last there I went on a conducted tour By an accredited aboriginal (from Katherine, not local) of Part of the base and others were walking around it.. We really have to take a bit of a look at how we regard iconic sites. We have raised pathways to protect the natural habitat etc Consideration of aborigines relation to things is part of it or else we just keep rubbing salt into the wound and also continue to trash everything just for a short term dollar. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Who says we HAVE to climb everything?

 

How much would it cost we, the rich victors in this war, to show a tiny bit of respect for the vanquished?

 

 

[octave]

Worse than the ban on climbing is the ban on walking around the base. Yep, you now have to look from quite some distance. If looking is also banned, what will happen I wonder.

 

Is there a ban on walking around it? I can't find any mention of that. Can you point to where I can confirm this?

 

https://parksaustralia.gov.au/uluru/pub/fs-pleasedontclimb.pdf

 

page 2 alternate walks Uluru base walk

 

 

[facthunter]

Most comments I heard were along the line of "Now I've seen, Uluru" (AYRES ROCK ) with some inference that once will do. It's a bit overdeveloped for a "real experience" and expensive.. I feel the Grampians is far more impressive in many ways if properly planned. to see most of it. and you do need DAYS..Nev