Constitution

[Marty_d]

There's mountain ranges, cliff faces, even indoor climbing centres if you don't like the weather, all over this country where no one will give a damn if you climb. If you want a walk that goes for 6 days and has some of the most spectacular scenery in the world, try the Overland Track here in Tassie. (Just don't do it in the middle of winter unless you want a helicopter rescue).

 

I don't see why we're getting upset that people can't climb one rock in the centre. It means a lot to the Aborigines, it doesn't mean much to most other people, so why do we care if they don't want people climbing it?

 

 

[Yenn]

I have walked around the rock, having decided not to climb it in deference to the Aboriginals wishes. I found The Olgas much more interesting, especially as the day I walked it was the day the Roulettes practiced their display there and then went on to the Alice to do the display to a bigger audience.

 

I really don't know why I deferred to the aborigines as later I realise that they have no respect for us whites.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"I don't see why we're getting upset that people can't climb one rock in the centre. It means a lot to the Aborigines, it doesn't mean much to most other people, so why do we care if they don't want people climbing it? "

 

Then close it properly & permanently.

 

WE'VE always got the one down the road, only doing camel rides at the moment, but would be a Big money spinner if developed right.

 

Its a Mountain & only a few centimetres lower than the Rock.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

There's no question that it was and is a special place for the aborigines. It's also a fairly dangerous place for people who are not young and fit to walk on and numerous quite ugly railings have been erected to facilitate walking on it.. The whole development was an initiative of the NT government to capitalize on the uniqueness of the large monolith. Whether anything of the place currently with it's lavish and expensive accommodation and sales of fake memorabilia, clothing etc has any genuine experience of the "real centre" to offer is debatable... Have we respected the wishes of the original people? They all live about 80 Kms to the southwest in abject poverty.. Yes some at Uluru don't really want to talk with the (white) people who go there , but why would they? They have defiled something that is without doubt sacred to them and turned it into a money earning circus. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

"numerous quite ugly railings have been erected to facilitate walking on it."

 

Only on the start area. For all to see !.

 

The view from the top is fantastic , "an Angles view for us mortals"

 

Lets get mt Conner on the tourist trip !.

 

"MacDonald's on high" "This 859-m. mountain of Mt Conner"

 

save the trip all the way to Village.

 

High-rise hotel and upgraded airport at Curtin springs

 

spacesailor

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Mt Conner will turn out to be just as sacred to a small group if we try to do that.

 

 

[spacesailor]

It is on private land !.

 

AS was Ayres lookout !. (MR, Lord) .

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

I hope I'm wrong about walking around it . The walking track was close to the base of the rock. I think it has now been moved well away. Personally, I would not like to do the new walk.

 

And Nev, the "abject poverty " is not from lack of money. You could research just how much they get, but it would not be easy as there are several different sources. But it is not unusual for a family to get $5000 a fortnight. There is kid money, royalty money, siddown money and others I am not aware of. The source of this was an Alice Springs bank teller. I don't think they pay rent or tax or medical bills.

 

A corroborating bit of news recently was the overload of Ceduna hospital by people in a serious condition from alcohol. Why? Because they had all just got their royalty payments.

 

 

[spacesailor]

At Hermannsberg, they tel us "whities" they get "DOG" allowance, !.

 

Would they let their Dogs (and theres lots) starve. Without an allowance ?.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

At Hermannsberg, they tel us "whities" they get "DOG" allowance, !.Would they let their Dogs (and theres lots) starve. Without an allowance ?.

 

spacesailor

 

Really? A dog allowance? Sounds like an urban myth to me. Usually when I hear such a story I use the resources of the internet to check it out so I dont end up looking gullible.

 

 

[spacesailor]

I was paying the "road toll" at the time.

 

Money from "gas field"

 

Money from "natural Parks".

 

Money from "Tolls & permits" to pass through "Their" land.

 

AND They'r POOR !.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

I was paying the "road toll" at the time.Money from "gas field"

 

Money from "natural Parks".

 

Money from "Tolls & permits" to pass through "Their" land.

 

AND They'r POOR !.

 

spacesailor

 

Where have you payed a toll? I am calling BS on that claim but I am sure you can provide me of evidence of that claim,

 

 

[Litespeed]

It all just seems like more bashing the natives to me.

 

It is their rock, their heritage.

 

All claims of sit down money of $5000 a fortnight are absolute bulldust.

 

Just more distractions from reality.

 

If they don't want us to climb- don't

 

 

[spacesailor]

I still have that memento, but packed away.

 

No one else taken the back road from Alice to The Rock,

 

quite a few tolls & permits in Australia.

 

"Permits do not allow for stops between the East Alligator River (Cahills Crossing) and the Park boundary" NT.

 

"Cape york" The same, Tolls for the ferry plus permits. Last time I did it $80.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

[

 

I still have that memento, but packed away.No one else taken the back road from Alice the The Rock,

 

quite a few tolls & permits in Australia.

 

"Permits do not allow for stops between the East Alligator River (Cahills Crossing) and the Park boundary" NT.

 

"Cape york" The same, Tolls for the ferry plus permits. Last time I did it $80.

 

spacesailor

So space give us more detail, when did this happen? is this infortmation published anywhere or do you just find out when you get there? If a permit is purchased where do the funds go? You see space the yhing is you can convince me of anything if you provide evidence,

 

 

[old man emu]

When you look at what the European Intelligentsia have done to other cultures in the name of "Knowledge" the pillage has been shocking.

 

Here's a story about the discovery of mummies in Egypt Tomb with 50 mummies found in Egypt

 

Those bodies were placed there by people like us who grieved the loss of loved ones but believed in a place of eternal afterlife, so they treated the earthly forms in a way that reflected that grief and belief.

 

So what is the good in desecrating their graves? We know that Ancient Egyptians had complex funereal rites. We know that they could preserve bodies by mummification. Shouldn't we have respect for that ancient culture and leave its burial places alone.

 

Wouldn't there be an almighty stink if "scholars" from some other culture decided to descent upon Westminster Abbey and started to dig up Britain's famous dead?

 

 

[spacesailor]

Octave .

 

Most information concerning traveling through somone 's land is often on the governments & public web sites.

 

when going to a lot of places like the simpson Desert, You Buy a permit from the government/Natural-parks department.

 

( Simpson Desert National Park (Department of Environment and Science) )

 

Cape-York.

 

( Parks and forests within Cape York Peninsula (Department of Environment and Science) ).

 

These parks are often run jointly by Government & landowner.

 

Took less than a second to find $100 worth of permits. ( CapeYork is likley to be over the $100 on it's own.(happy that its in Dual language)).

 

OME

 

"Wouldn't there be an almighty stink if "scholars" from some other culture decided to descent upon Westminster Abbey and started to dig up Britain's famous dead? "

 

Not at all.

 

We/They, are digging up every thing "Harold the great's been found, after his tomb was lost to antiquity.

 

Motorways demand the removal of consecrated graves daily, (such is Progress).

 

Even pre Roman building sites are always on the list of "DIGGS" !.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

Octave .Most information concerning traveling through somone 's land is often on the governments & public web sites.

 

when going to a lot of places like the simpson Desert, You Buy a permit from the government/Natural-parks department.

 

( Simpson Desert National Park (Department of Environment and Science) )

 

Cape-York.

 

( Parks and forests within Cape York Peninsula (Department of Environment and Science) ).

 

These parks are often run jointly by Government & landowner.

 

Took less than a second to find $100 worth of permits. ( CapeYork is likley to be over the $100 on it's own.(happy that its in Dual language)).

 

OME

 

"Wouldn't there be an almighty stink if "scholars" from some other culture decided to descent upon Westminster Abbey and started to dig up Britain's famous dead? "

 

Not at all.

 

We/They, are digging up every thing "Harold the great's been found, after his tomb was lost to antiquity.

 

Motorways demand the removal of consecrated graves daily, (such is Progress).

 

Even pre Roman building sites are always on the list of "DIGGS" !.

 

spacesailor

Who gets this money? It sounds like goverment and national parks etc. The suggestion that aborigenes are getting rich does not seem to be born out. If aborigenes are getting wealthy from these payments they are doing a good job of hiding it.

 

 

[octave]

Octave .Most information concerning traveling through somone 's land is often on the governments & public web sites.

 

when going to a lot of places like the simpson Desert, You Buy a permit from the government/Natural-parks department.

 

( Simpson Desert National Park (Department of Environment and Science) )

 

Cape-York.

 

( Parks and forests within Cape York Peninsula (Department of Environment and Science) ).

 

These parks are often run jointly by Government & landowner.

 

Took less than a second to find $100 worth of permits. ( CapeYork is likley to be over the $100 on it's own.(happy that its in Dual language)).

 

OME

 

"Wouldn't there be an almighty stink if "scholars" from some other culture decided to descent upon Westminster Abbey and started to dig up Britain's famous dead? "

 

Not at all.

 

We/They, are digging up every thing "Harold the great's been found, after his tomb was lost to antiquity.

 

Motorways demand the removal of consecrated graves daily, (such is Progress).

 

Even pre Roman building sites are always on the list of "DIGGS" !.

 

spacesailor

Many of those fees are for commercial operations such as grazing etc. In terms of the ordinary person going on holiday to a national park, yes there are some fees to camp, this is not unusual in National Parks. These fees seem reasonable to me

 

Camping and vehicle access permits (Department of Environment and Science)

 

Applying for a permit to travel through Aboriginal land, the outrageous sum of $0

 

Apply for a permit to access or travel through Aboriginal land | Western Australian Government

 

The permit system is designed to help protect the privacy of Aboriginal communities, preserve Aboriginal heritage and culture, safeguard the natural environment and to promote visitor safety.

 

Permits are issued free of charge.

 

You can apply online to travel through Aboriginal lands.

 

The online form is not to be used for mining activity.

 

Read all required information before applying for a permit.

 

If you have any queries, please contact the Permits Officer on 1300 651 077 or 61 8 6551 8000 or permits_queries@daa.wa.gov.au

 

 

[spacesailor]

MY Toll ,after the parks permit, was $7.00, issued by the Hermannsburg (council) or word meaning the same.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Litespeed]

So you paid a tiny $7

 

 

[Bruce]

There is a photo taken at Hermannsburg in about 1953 of a DeHavilland Dragon Rapide which failed to clear the trees at the end of the runway. My guess is that it was overloaded and the density altitude was too high.

 

In those days, only English aircraft were permitted to Connellan Airways by the anglophile Menzies government. They are designed for a cold and low country.

 

Menzies called the shots on account of paying for the airways with mail subsidies.

 

Last time I saw Hermannsburg airstrip, from a glider some distance away, it looked like there were shrubs growing in it. Don't land there without a careful check.

 

If anybody finds more on the story, please let me know.

 

 

[Bruce]

In Alice Springs, backyard burning is not allowed for air-pollution reasons EXCEPT if the fire is a " comfort fire " by aborigines. The aboriginal-occupied housing commission house opposite our rebuilding project always had a smouldering fire in the backyard.

 

I think there are quite a few special rules like this, and there are certainly extra payments. There is a word coined for their poor diet.. " affluent malnutrition".

 

It occurs when your poor diet is due to your food choices and not your budget.

 

Mind you, there are some very healthy aborigines and some feral whites, so we should avoid making decisions based on '"race" , whatever that is. So is the rule on comfort fires racist?

 

 

[old man emu]

Is "comfort" the correct translation of the cultural feature that is the fire? Isn't there an etiquette involved in entering a non-urbanised Aboriginal's campsite?

 

Is that fire to the Aborigines what a a lounge room is to the Anglos? The place where you sit with others to chew the fat or solve the world's crises?

 

I notice you describe the fire as "smoldering". To me that implies that the fire was not for warmth nor cooking large items. You have to consider the significance of fire to aboriginal life. Better to light a fire once and keep it going than to have to go through the effort of lighting one every time you make camp.

 

 

[spacesailor]

NO COMMENT.

 

but lot of questions?

 

spacesailor