Conservatism Vs Progressivism

[octave]

It seems to me that many threads end up being a competition between conservatism and progressivism. Most of us do not have the power individually to steer the course

 

of our society. We can rant and rave but we still only have one vote. This got me to thinking about whether it is better for an individual to be one or the other. I consider myself to be happier than the average person. I don't know why this is but I do have some theories.

 

I thought it might be interesting to articulate why I believe it is easier to be progressive than conservative.

 

As a progressive, the future is not scary, in fact, I can't wait to see what will come in the near future. New ways to power our cars or our houses, bring it on. New aircraft, bring it on, etc.

 

In my work life, I meet people from many cultures and sexual identities and it is easy for me, I just accept them for how good of a friend they are or whether they are a good person to work with. Make 007 a woman, who cares as long as they do a good job.

 

At 57 I do not look back through my life and think it used to be better and has become worse, indeed my life is the best it has ever been despite some recent adversity.

 

Being progressive means that I am able to engage with younger people. My wife retired recently and we still meet her ex-colleagues for lunch or the pub. these are young intelligent people but they still invite us oldies out.

 

There is hardly any generation gap between me and my son (29). Although he lives overseas there is hardly a day when we don't chat.

 

As a progressive I believe that my views will be treated more kindly by history. When I read the writings of past progressives their views seem more palatable than the views of conservatives. Past progressives said yes give women the right to vote however the views of conservatives form this time seem primitive.

 

By contrast, it seems to me that if I were conservative I would be anxious about change and the future.

 

In my work life, I have young colleagues from different cultures, they do seem to like me and not consider me to be a grumpy old man to be avoided.

 

Although I don't regret much in my life I recognize that my life is easier and more fulfilling now than in the past.

 

So conservatives give me your pitch. Should I become a crusty old conservative?

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm the same as I was at 15. The system rarely works as it should. The "presumptions about gen X , millenials or any other are just generalisations and nothing more.. A fair go for ALL, not just the wheelers, dealers and stealers, spivs and spin merchants and apologists for crooks who continue to surface every time one has a good look.. Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

That's discriminatory, Octave.

 

Why do you brand conservative humans as being "crusty"? Is that a ploy to prod some conservative to arc up with a response?

 

I suspect that no true conservative could bring themself to respond to an attempt to force them to analyse (contemplate) their own entrenched manner.

 

After all, as far as I can understand what you mean by "conservative", do you mean "set in ways"? Maybe, "living by a rigid paradigm, comprised of tested valid values, and resisting allowing those paradigms to evolve when new information arrives".

 

That precludes

 

 

[octave]

So conservatives give me your pitch. Should I become a crusty old conservative?

I did not call conservatives 'crusty old" I asked whether I should become a conservative and being of a certain age I perhaps could be described as at least getting towards being old and crusty.

 

I defined progressivism from a personal point of view, outlining how I think it contributes to a happy life and I am merely asking what more conservative people believe are the personal benefits of conservatism are.

 

That precludes

That precludes.......... ?

 

 

[nomadpete]

Sorry, Octave, I was just poking fun at your implied stereotype of a "conservative", which, of course, can only look that way from your self professed progressive viewpoint.

 

No offense intended.

 

Precluded? Put that down to "PEBKAC".

 

 

[octave]

Sorry, Octave, I was just poking fun at your implied stereotype of a "conservative", which, of course, can only look that way from your self professed progressive viewpoint.No offense intended.

 

Precluded? Put that down to "PEBKAC".

 

I wasn't offended at all, all good conversation.

 

 

[nomadpete]

What are you asking from the Conservatives?

 

It's unlikely that a conservative person will readily identify themself as being conservative. Even if one did, what chance is there of a conservative mind revealing it's innermost thought processes?

 

And, really, I'm not in any position to guess an answer.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"It seems to me that many threads end up being a competition between conservatism and progressivism. " True. conservation = stagnation.

 

"There is hardly any generation gap between me and my son (29). " True My Grandson (32) gets on well with me.

 

AGE is in the eye of the observer !.

 

Two years with face fuzz & it still startles in the morning mirror. (No one gave a cent for my Movember.)

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

What are you asking from the Conservatives?

I guess I was just interested in what makes other people tick. I thought it might make an interesting conversation.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Although I agree with the sentiment of the OP in the context in which I perceived it to be, I think we have to be careful what we mean my conservative and progressive. As with many things that label opposite viewpoints, these are often at the more entrenched end of the respective spectrums. There are the crusty conservatives and the radical progressives - each steeped in idelogy of their beliefs are for the better good (whatever we define as good). I consider myself a cautious progressive - I welcome the future, but in adopting it, we have to look at and as far as possible mitigate the risks (e.g. socioligical, environmental, physical, economic, etc). Unbridled progression can be as dangerous as crusty conservatism.

 

@octave - I hope whatever your recent adversity is, it has or will soon blow-over with little impact...

 

 

[nomadpete]

Octave, the whole discussion about 'what makes humans minds tick' has been keeping thinkers awake at night for time immemorial. And it's still fascinating.

 

But how can I enter the debate when I'm not so sure what makes ME tick?

 

 

[spacesailor]

CASA: conservative "welcome the future, but in adopting it, we have to look at and as far as possible mitigate the risks"

 

So they sew everything up & stop progression,

 

No more startling innovative designs like the Ligeto Stratus (spelling)

 

[ATTACH]50176._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

spacesailor

 

[octave]

Although I agree with the sentiment of the OP in the context in which I perceived it to be, I think we have to be careful what we mean my conservative and progressive. As with many things that label opposite viewpoints, these are often at the more entrenched end of the respective spectrums. There are the crusty conservatives and the radical progressives - each steeped in idelogy of their beliefs are for the better good (whatever we define as good). I consider myself a cautious progressive - I welcome the future, but in adopting it, we have to look at and as far as possible mitigate the risks (e.g. socioligical, environmental, physical, economic, etc). Unbridled progression can be as dangerous as crusty conservatism.

@octave - I hope whatever your recent adversity is, it has or will soon blow-over with little impact...

I basically agree with that. Firstly most of us are not one or the other but are on a spectrum I think society definitely needs both. We have always needed people who say "let's see what is the next valley" and those who say "but wait perhaps the next valley is full of danger and we have done ok in this valley in the past.

 

What I am pondering though is what does one or the other of these tendencies mean for the individual. By way of an example, I have a friend I have known for 37 years, he is in many ways very conservative (socially), in fact, I can't work out why we are still friends Many many years ago I remember when the first women were trying to become airline pilots. My view was why not, his view was they were unsuited for this job. Thirty years later and it is not an issue. I think my opinion still sounds ok but his now seems a little silly. Perhaps history is generally kinder to less conservative people???

 

This is a huge oversimplification but it seems that progress is something that happens anyway, sometimes the rate changes but mostly it still continues. Again this is simplifying a complex thing but I feel like it must be more rewarding to champian the future rather than the past or present. I guess what I am asking is this, what is it that makes being more conservative personally rewarding. Perhaps a dumb question that has no clear answer but which ideology is liable to lead to more personal happiness?

 

Not trying to have a go at anyone probably should not have used the word crusty but in my defence a) I was talking about me and b) it is not meant to be derogatory, I learned to fly from a crusty old CFI

 

@octave - I hope whatever your recent adversity is, it has or will soon blow-over with little impact.

Thanks, just dealing with ageing parents interstate who are getting unable to live in their own home. Flying back and forth to look after them.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"Jerry_Atrick said:

 

@octave - I hope whatever your recent adversity is, it has or will soon blow-over with little impact.

 

Thanks, just dealing with ageing parents interstate who are getting unable to live in their own home. Flying back and forth to look after them."

 

Hope their not in NSW. as ICAT, can & has taken all the oldies assets, then locked them Against their wishes, into ICAT's self imposed facility.

 

They use their own rule of "can the victim look after themselves" by ICATS standards. (The Intensive Care and Assessment Team (ICAT) is located at St George Hospital and focuses on assessment, safety and brief interventions for families dealing ).

 

Then They take out a "guardianship" with "power of attorney" All for the victims safety.

 

This disinherits all the children.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

Why women Were not suitible for Manly occupations,(37 years ago)

 

two males with strong arms to push the None powered controls.

 

Now A child could work the Powered controls.

 

A Wellington NZ. bus company had a strings of accident with women driver's turning a particular corner, & losing control, Because as the motor stalls, the power-steering becomes to heavy for a small person to steer & the brakes went out as well, but a wall arrested the forward motion.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

Why women Were not suitible for Manly occupations,(37 years ago)two males with strong arms to push the None powered controls.

I am not aware of the strength required to fly the eighties 737 but the issue would surely be one of strength, not sex. The requirement would surely being strong enough to do the job and this would surely be the test applied. All men are not stronger than all women.

 

the power-steering becomes to heavy for a small person to steer & the brakes went out as well,

A small person? So the restriction should have been against small people. You do understand that there is a huge overlap in size and strength within the sexes. I am not a weight lifter but there are female weightlifters.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Octave : "what is it that makes being more conservative personally rewarding. "

 

The way I see it, a classic conservative outlook has the benefit of increased confidence in a world of frightening variables. The very thought that what one was sure of yesterday might be wrong tomorrow, can be very unsettling to some people. Hence a resistance to change, and resistance to new data that might challenge an old belief.

 

Whereas, a progressive is more likely to find new data to be exciting.

 

All just generalisations. As said before "we're all somewhere on a spectrum".

 

 

[octave]

Octave : "what is it that makes being more conservative personally rewarding. "

The way I see it, a classic conservative outlook has the benefit of increased confidence in a world of frightening variables. The very thought that what one was sure of yesterday might be wrong tomorrow, can be very unsettling to some people. Hence a resistance to change, and resistance to new data that might challenge an old belief.

 

Whereas, a progressive is more likely to find new data to be exciting.

 

All just generalisations. As said before "we're all somewhere on a spectrum".

I agree but what I wonder is doesn't the classic conservative have to contend with constant change anyway and perhaps the best that they can hope for is to slow it down? Whilst the progressive may be frustrated because they think change might be too slow but none the less progress continues

 

 

[nomadpete]

Yes, both types will feel discomfort from "progress" (actually, any change).

 

Conservative feel threatened because it takes them out of their comfort zone, makes them feel vulnerable, and threatens all that they are certain of.

 

Progressives (maybe rename this group, 'adaptables') feel frustrated because the new and exciting"advancement" (change, which might or might not be an improvement) is so slow.

 

That's my generalisations.

 

 

[facthunter]

Beware of ALL "isms". and tags . It's a way of negating the points they make, on the cheap. (ie without proper and informed, debate) Nev.

 

 

[octave]

Beware of ALL "isms". and tags . It's a way of negating the points they make, on the cheap. (ie without proper and informed, debate) Nev.

Yes. In fact I thnk one of the problems we have is that matters regarding science, engineering, medicine, sociology etc. tend to become ideological. This seems to be a fault that is not unique to any particular group.

 

 

[facthunter]

Call it manipulation, and you won't be far out.. Most advertising for example. You can't possibly be a success if you don't own one of these. (Whatevers… Name any article)

 

. OUR NEW model has 115 improvements on the last model. Well you would have been a dill to have bought the LAST model wouldn't you? (But it's made by the same people /factory that's making THIS model? WTF? SOON this model will be a last model and will need 115 improvements to be seen dead with. "and wait, there's more". If you buy this week you get $500 dollars cash back (which is added to the price) to spend so you obviously have no cash so can't afford the thing, or be able to pay it off, either.Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

I must be a progressive conservative !

 

Absolutely Love the sparkling new toys, BUT hate learning to use them.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[willedoo]

The new toys are great. The internet changed the world forever. What a fantastic resource of knowledge. We used to have to go to the local library with it's small collection of largely irrelevant books. If someone hadn't written a book on the subject of your interest you were just left in the dark. But now, if you want to know how many dimples a Mongolian moth has on it's left toe, it's most likely only a few mouse clicks away, and all in the comfort of your own home.

 

Press some buttons and you can bring the world into your living room.

 

 

[facthunter]

How REAL is the world you bring in? You can just about fake anything these days so. Can you TRUST it? That's the issue. Nev