The Sunshine State

[old man emu]

They spend multi millions on updating Christmas Island and employ 100 people, just to incarcerate a family of four Sri Lankans.

 

Didn't you hear that the two Sri Lankan kids are little terrors?

 

 

[robinsm]

QLD (and WA) are why we have this pathetic LNP government.

 

Scomo is a national embarrassment, toadying to Trump like a true brown-noser while ignoring the climate change elephant in the room.

 

He even came close to saying "fake news" about anyone who denigrates Australia's carbon reduction efforts.  No wonder kids are totally over politicians.  I just hope all those angry 16 year olds vote as soon as they hit 18.

 

so what is your alternative, unlimited immigration with Labour/greens.   Bad fiscal decisions with same ...who remembers 17% interest rates under Lab.   Highest unemp[loyment under Lab, scandals, infighting etc etc.   I am not a LNP supporter but they beat the hell out of the proposed alternative.   Illiterate tree huggers dictating policy to Lab pollies who should know better but need to trade off their principles for voles.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Yes, obviously the problem is labor trades its principles for pragmatism at times.

 

The LNP have no principles.

 

 

[Marty_d]

so what is your alternative, unlimited immigration with Labour/greens.   Bad fiscal decisions with same ...who remembers 17% interest rates under Lab.   Highest unemp[loyment under Lab, scandals, infighting etc etc.   I am not a LNP supporter but they beat the hell out of the proposed alternative.   Illiterate tree huggers dictating policy to Lab pollies who should know better but need to trade off their principles for voles.

 

No, I don't remember 17% interest rates because I was about 10 at the time.  For crying out loud, it's the old LNP playbook - blame everything to do with the economy on Labor even though it happened decades ago.

 

And while you're trying to say Labor are joined to the hip with the Greens, I see the opposite happening - Labor are so desperate to avoid being seen as aligned with the Greens that they're running a mile from whatever the Greens propose even when it makes sense.

 

As for scandals and infighting, take a closer look at the LNP.  3 prime ministers in 2 years, cozying up to Hanson and her gun-nut colleagues who tried to get the NRA to donate money to them, the whole Christmas Island debacle (they just spent $30 million of your money as a knee-jerk reaction to the Medevac legislation re-opening Christmas Island, then didn't use it for anyone.  Still think they're good financial managers?)

 

At least Labor don't have Dutton, Abbott, Christensen, Abetz, Andrews and a few others who have a narrow, destructive conservative view.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

so what is your alternative, unlimited immigration with Labour/greens.   Bad fiscal decisions with same ...who remembers 17% interest rates under Lab.   Highest unemp[loyment under Lab, scandals, infighting etc etc.   I am not a LNP supporter but they beat the hell out of the proposed alternative.   Illiterate tree huggers dictating policy to Lab pollies who should know better but need to trade off their principles for voles.

 

 

 

I have to admit, except for their position on climate change, I have stereotypically thought og the greens as Corbyn's commie army. But your post prompted me to actually take a look at what they say...

 

You can find their immigration and refugee policy here: https://greens.org.au/policies/immigration-and-refugeeshttps://greens.org.au/policies/immigration-and-refugees

 

It is mainly about Australia should meet its obligations under the Refugees convention, treat asylumseekers and refugees humanely and stop the deprevation of refugees. Given, over 'ere, deradicalisation programs have found that most of those radicalised are suffering clinical mental health condidtions and the rest are forgotten people looking for a home, it isn't beyond the realms of human intelligence to say, hey, if we are putting these PEOPLE in conditions where their mental health, which is probably already teetering on the edge, into the dangerous zone, then the press will have a field day about those "lone wolf terrorists" who wreak havoc on our communities.

 

Yes, the Greens say we should prioritise family reunion and human causes over skills shortages.. I am not 100% OK with this, I admit.. Mainly because, do I really need to be reunited with my second cousin who now lives in Sydney and, to be honest, I occasionally think about? No, of course I don't. But if I am separated from my wife, and, admittedly, much more importanly, my children? FFS - think about it.. 

 

Yes  - there are economic refugees.. But these are not refugees under the 1951 convention. But who cares if they are? They are more likely to contribute positively in the country - be more innovative because they know what it is like to be hungry, live under a tatty tarpaulin, and suffer watching their famly suffering... Let's put it this way - look at the BRW top 200 - how many have WASP surnames? Not too many.. Look at the people doing the less revered work (cleaners, poop-shovelers, etc).. Look at how we complain that Aussie dole bludgers are bleeding the system.. Yet the immigrants?

 

Looking at the greens immigrant policy - it aint perfect, but it seems a darned sight better (in its ambitions) than the other mongrel-gutses..

 

Is Bob Brown still in politics?

 

On the interest rates.. Yes 17% I was a young adult at the time.. And I was trying to get on the property ladder... But, did you check the world wide interest rates at the time.. Oh, and forget the fact that Keating was voted the worlds best treasurer as he staved off soverign bankruptcy.. and it was in line with the rest of the world - much like today.. Which proves economic forces are normally well beyond governmental control.

 

 

[Marty_d]

No, Bob's retired, more's the pity.

 

The Greens current leader is Richard Di Natale, a doctor from Victoria.   Good bloke, but he's not Bob.

 

 

[Yenn]

I remember the high interest rates I had a mortgage then. I was luck I sold the house, payed off the mortgage, moved to the bush and built a better house with what I had left from the sale and wages.

 

What I want with refugees is for us to honour our obligations. We should not have to house people overseas, while their status is worked out. We should say either, "Yes you are a refugee" or  "no you are not",

 

If the answer is no, then they cannot stay, if our legislation is so poorly worded that the lawyers can keep getting extensions, then we need better legislation.

 

Once they are in the country legally, we should not grant them citizenship until they have demomstrated their ability to assimilate.

 

 

[robinsm]

Immigrant crime rates in NSW and Vic are out of control, hand them a large friendly trough and boy do they feed from it, legally or illegally.   Our obligations are from the UN which is run by countries that do not honour their obligations, ie Middle east countries etc.   Genuine refugees that assimilate and play the game legally are fine but the current batches have bought many bad attitudes with them.   I point to the crtime gangs in Victoria, the drug trade and stand overs in Sydney etc etc.   Immigrants from africa and middle eastern countries running thesae.   I appreciate that there are good honest hard working genuine refugees but our do good tree huggers have removed any semblance of filtering and common sense from the process.   When I see friends of mine suffer home invasions, assaults and robberies from immigrant gangs I am afraid I do not share your sense of pat em on the back and bend over.   I point to the problems being suffered by germany, england, scandinavia and some mediterranean countries to make my point.   Do we want this here.

 

If everyone plays by the same book then fine, but they dont.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Soft policies lead to drownings at sea and truckloads of bodies. Let them apply and come in legally.

 

 

[Bruce]

I would have a very long  period before granting citizenship  and use deportation much more against those who did not behave.

 

My guess here is that behavior would quickly improve once word got around.

 

And the number of refugees allowed in would be much less. Why is it only Pauline Hanson who sees this? Australia imported GRAIN last year, and will import more this year I reckon. Our population-carrying capacity, long term, has already been exceeded. 

 

 

[gareth lacey]

and talking about refugees the do gooders want to bring all the women TRAITORs back, i say leave them there for all time, they are TRAITORS and in a normal war scenario they would be tried and then hanged , no we dont need to import this traitorous rubbish back to OZ leave them there .

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

so what is your alternative, unlimited immigration with Labour/greens.   Bad fiscal decisions with same ...who remembers 17% interest rates under Lab.   Highest unemp[loyment under Lab, scandals, infighting etc etc.   I am not a LNP supporter but they beat the hell out of the proposed alternative.   Illiterate tree huggers dictating policy to Lab pollies who should know better but need to trade off their principles for voles.

 

 Robinsm a cool-headed comparison of the economic record of our two major parties would show a very different picture to the fibs purveyed by the Murdoch/LNP COALition.

 

Both sides have had their shanks and sharlatans, but the big difference is that Labor has done the most reforming, the most nation-building and has carried us thru wars and economic crises. The LNP has tended to focus on the budget no matter what harm this does to our country. Selling off the farm to balance the books is not good policy.

 

If we had a federal anti-corruption body it would have long since decimated the ranks of the COALition; probably why they fight so hard to stop one being set up.

 

 

[willedoo]

   Bad fiscal decisions with same ...who remembers 17% interest rates under Lab.  

 

I do. I also remember 13.5% under Howard as Treasurer in 1983. And I remember 11.5% under Hawke and Keating a year later, and 8.75% when Keating was PM in 1993. Also I remember 8.5% under Howard in 2007 and 5.75% under Rudd in 2009.

 

 

[Marty_d]

and talking about refugees the do gooders want to bring all the women TRAITORs back, i say leave them there for all time, they are TRAITORS and in a normal war scenario they would be tried and then hanged , no we dont need to import this traitorous rubbish back to OZ leave them there .

 

And what happens to the kids?  Do they deserve to die too?

 

 

[old man emu]

and talking about refugees the do gooders want to bring all the women TRAITORs back, i say leave them there for all time, they are TRAITORS and in a normal war scenario they would be tried and then hanged , no we dont need to import this traitorous rubbish back to OZ leave them there .

 

This shows a poor understanding of the domineering nature of fundamentalist Islamic males. I would suggest that the majority of these women were forced to accompany their idiot husbands and brothers to the war zones. Women in fundamentalist cultures don't have the freedoms that even those women in non-fundamentalist Islamic cultures have. It's do what the males say, or get beaten, raped and worse.

 

Bring these women and children back here, but keep close supervision on the radicalised ones.

 

 

[gareth lacey]

They CHOSE to follow the nut jobs there and marry them and i do understand that the isis brand of islam is archaic and very domineering and women have very little rights ,but these women/girls had an australian education  and therefore should have known better , look at them now ,if they want to break free of the shackles of islam get rid of the burka and  start being western again, as for the children its not Australia,s problem they were born over there let them stay with their mothers , we do not need to import their brand of islam back here , the old saying goes , make your bed and lie in it. we have more pressing issues in Australia than to waste our time and resources on them

 

 

[Bruce]

OME, what do you say to the idea that they only be allowed back by agreeing to strict conditions, like no burqua , on islamic schooling for the kids, no association with islamist groups?

 

 

[old man emu]

OME, what do you say to the idea that they only be allowed back by agreeing to strict conditions, like no burqua , on islamic schooling for the kids, no association with islamist groups?

 

1. Banning the Burka

 

Let's identify what's what in Islamic clothing.

 

 

I think that the Niqab, Burka and Chador represent oppression of women and are not consistent with Australian freedoms. The Hijab, and its Asian version the Dupatta are quite acceptable. Note that until the end of the 20th Century Christian nuns dressed like this:

 

[ATTACH]50416._xfImport[/ATTACH] but now are often dressed like this [ATTACH]50417._xfImport[/ATTACH] 

 

and one well-known English lady often covers her head when out and about

 

 

 

 

There is another problem with school-aged children being fully covered is that they suffer from heat stress in hot weather as school uniforms we have are suitable for getting rid of body heat, but wearing full length leg and arm coverings inhibits the body's cooling, making the kids ill.

 

2. Religious Schools.

 

Once again, banning schools which express a religious philosophy as part of their curriculum opens up another can of worms. Look at the cost to the tax-payer. Close all Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Islamic and any other school promoting a "religious" philosophy and you throw probably a million or more students onto the government operated school system. So if one law bans these registered non-government schools, how are people going to obey the Education Act 1990 (NSW) Part 5, Paragraph 22 of the Act or its equivalent in other States and Territories?

 

 

4.   Principles on which this Act is based

In enacting this Act, Parliament has had regard to the following principles:

(a)  every child has the right to receive an education,

(b)  the education of a child is primarily the responsibility of the child’s parents,

©  it is the duty of the State to ensure that every child receives an education of the highest quality,

(d)  the principal responsibility of the State in the education of children is the provision of public education.

 

The Act also imposes a duty on parents:

22   Compulsory schooling—duty of parents

It is the duty of the parent of a child of compulsory school-age to cause the child:

1. (a)  to be enrolled at, and to attend, a government school or a registered non-government school, or

    (b)  to be registered for home schooling under Part 7 and to receive instruction in accordance with the conditions to which the registration is subject.

2.  That duty is satisfied if the child receives instruction of a kind referred to in section 23 (2).

3.  Schooling required by this section is referred to in this Act as compulsory schooling

 

3. What's "Islamist" mean?

The Associated Press Stylebook, also known by its full name The Associated Press Stylebook and Briefing on Media Law, entry for Islamist as of 2013 reads as follows:

 

"An advocate or supporter of a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam. Those who view the Quran as a political model encompass a wide range of Muslims, from mainstream politicians to militants known as jihadi.

 

Do not use as a synonym for Islamic fighters, militants, extremists or radicals, who may or may not be Islamists. Where possible, be specific and use the name of militant affiliations: al-Qaida-linked, Hezbollah, Taliban, etc."

 

So an 'Islamist" is a person who wants to install Sharia Law where they govern. Clearly, Sharia Law is not fully compatable with Westminster-type law. Islamic legal tradition has a number of parallels with Judaism. In both religions, revealed law holds a central place, in contrast to Christianity which does not possess a body of revealed law, and where theology rather than law is considered to be the principal field of religious study

 

A 2013 survey based on interviews of 38,000 Muslims, randomly selected from urban and rural parts in 39 countries, respondents were more likely to define sharia as "the revealed word of God" rather than as "a body of law developed by men based on the word of God". In analyzing the poll,  it has been argued that there is no single, shared understanding of the notions "sharia" and "Islamic law" among the respondents. In particular, in countries where Muslim citizens have little experience with rigid application of sharia-based state laws, these notions tend to be more associated with Islamic ideals like equality and social justice than with prohibitions.

 

It would seem that the label of "Islamist" inferring some sort of negative social concept is a propaganda tool dependent on the reporting of some rare (relative to the number of practising Muslims) occurrences of extreme punishment, and a failure to understand and find the similarities between Sharia and Western legal philosophy. 

 

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

OME 

 

If this rotten government can & HAS deported two Austrian born children.

 

Then it follows, foreign born children Shouldn't have any chance of getting sympathy from Australian people.

 

Let the overstaying Commonwealth games, athletes have a go at being GOOD Australian,s.

 

We can use some new blood in our games efforts.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Litespeed]

Does not matter what they are accused of ,they are Australians and owed protection and the ability to return home.

 

Citizenship is paramount and should never be a plaything of politicians or racists.

 

 

[Yenn]

Are they Australians or perhaps do they have dual citizenship?

 

It was a known that Australians were not allowed to travel overseas to fight in others wars.

 

What would Hicks and Assange think about protection of Australians?

 

 

[robinsm]

1. Banning the Burka

 

Let's identify what's what in Islamic clothing.

 

 

I think that the Niqab, Burka and Chador represent oppression of women and are not consistent with Australian freedoms. The Hijab, and its Asian version the Dupatta are quite acceptable. Note that until the end of the 20th Century Christian nuns dressed like this:

 

[ATTACH]3358[/ATTACH] but now are often dressed like this [ATTACH]3359[/ATTACH] 

 

and one well-known English lady often covers her head when out and about

 

 

 

 

There is another problem with school-aged children being fully covered is that they suffer from heat stress in hot weather as school uniforms we have are suitable for getting rid of body heat, but wearing full length leg and arm coverings inhibits the body's cooling, making the kids ill.

 

2. Religious Schools.

 

Once again, banning schools which express a religious philosophy as part of their curriculum opens up another can of worms. Look at the cost to the tax-payer. Close all Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Islamic and any other school promoting a "religious" philosophy and you throw probably a million or more students onto the government operated school system. So if one law bans these registered non-government schools, how are people going to obey the Education Act 1990 (NSW) Part 5, Paragraph 22 of the Act or its equivalent in other States and Territories?

 

 

4.   Principles on which this Act is based

In enacting this Act, Parliament has had regard to the following principles:

(a)  every child has the right to receive an education,

(b)  the education of a child is primarily the responsibility of the child’s parents,

©  it is the duty of the State to ensure that every child receives an education of the highest quality,

(d)  the principal responsibility of the State in the education of children is the provision of public education.

 

The Act also imposes a duty on parents:

22   Compulsory schooling—duty of parents

It is the duty of the parent of a child of compulsory school-age to cause the child:

1. (a)  to be enrolled at, and to attend, a government school or a registered non-government school, or

    (b)  to be registered for home schooling under Part 7 and to receive instruction in accordance with the conditions to which the registration is subject.

2.  That duty is satisfied if the child receives instruction of a kind referred to in section 23 (2).

3.  Schooling required by this section is referred to in this Act as compulsory schooling

 

3. What's "Islamist" mean?

The Associated Press Stylebook, also known by its full name The Associated Press Stylebook and Briefing on Media Law, entry for Islamist as of 2013 reads as follows:

 

"An advocate or supporter of a political movement that favors reordering government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam. Those who view the Quran as a political model encompass a wide range of Muslims, from mainstream politicians to militants known as jihadi.

 

Do not use as a synonym for Islamic fighters, militants, extremists or radicals, who may or may not be Islamists. Where possible, be specific and use the name of militant affiliations: al-Qaida-linked, Hezbollah, Taliban, etc."

 

So an 'Islamist" is a person who wants to install Sharia Law where they govern. Clearly, Sharia Law is not fully compatable with Westminster-type law. Islamic legal tradition has a number of parallels with Judaism. In both religions, revealed law holds a central place, in contrast to Christianity which does not possess a body of revealed law, and where theology rather than law is considered to be the principal field of religious study

 

A 2013 survey based on interviews of 38,000 Muslims, randomly selected from urban and rural parts in 39 countries, respondents were more likely to define sharia as "the revealed word of God" rather than as "a body of law developed by men based on the word of God". In analyzing the poll,  it has been argued that there is no single, shared understanding of the notions "sharia" and "Islamic law" among the respondents. In particular, in countries where Muslim citizens have little experience with rigid application of sharia-based state laws, these notions tend to be more associated with Islamic ideals like equality and social justice than with prohibitions.

 

It would seem that the label of "Islamist" inferring some sort of negative social concept is a propaganda tool dependent on the reporting of some rare (relative to the number of practising Muslims) occurrences of extreme punishment, and a failure to understand and find the similarities between Sharia and Western legal philosophy. 

 

 

 

 

Its not islamic clothing, it was designed to keep the sand out of the eyes etc in the desert.   No desert here on the east coast.   If I have to remove my bike helmet to enter a bank, why do these idiots not have to uncover for the same reason.   Crimes committed by men disguised in the full face post box item have been recorded because no one can identify them under the cloth.   Ban the burqua, hiqab, etc no problems.    Using a scarf to tame unruly hair or stop your hairdo from being mashed by the elements is one thing, wearing a black sheet with a slit for the eyes is another.   The clothing is not a religious requirement, it was a climatic one.   The wearing of the haedgear for nuns etc was to appear like then clothing of Mary etc who were raised and lived in the middle east and had the same sand in the hair problem   Sensibly they changed with the times not like the medieval male centered mohammedans.

 

 

[Marty_d]

as for the children its not Australia,s problem they were born over there let them stay with their mothers 

 

They're Australian citizens and not the citizens of any other country.  They are very much our "problem" and no one else's.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

They're Australian citizens and not the citizens of any other country.  They are very much our "problem" and no one else's.

 

I disagree, Marty. If they were born in Syria and the Caliphate had succeeded I very much doubt they would have claimed Au citizenship.

 

As others have said, it's a bloody tragedy for the kids, but they can line up behind thousands of others with much stronger claims on our sympathy.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Marty

 

How did they get that, Australian citizenship.?.

 

The two children BORN IN AUSTRALIA.

 

haven't got their citizenship, so have been shown the door.

 

AND

 

It didn,t do Julian assange much good either.

 

spacesailor