The War Surplus equipment of WW2

[old man emu]

Since the Lee-Enfield was produced from the late 1800's, through WWl, I wonder if Lithgow had been making them all that time, or if, when WWll started, they had a stockpile of left-overs from WWl.

 

Talking about weapons being buried, in the early 1960's the son of one of my Dad's war mates, who lived in Dubbo, had a Vickers and a Lewis machine gun which he said he recovered from an old mine shaft out near Peak Hill. 

 

The Narromine aviation museum has photos of local farmers towing Mosquitos away from the airport. They had been sold, stripped of engines, for their nuts and bolts. Also a lot of Boomerangs were sold off to farmers for scrap. 

 

While those of us with an interest in history now lament the destruction of all this military equipment, you have to consider the mindset of the people at the end of nearly six years of war. They wanted out of the military and to "turn swords into plowshares".

 

 

[onetrack]

There have been many overseas designs of equipment and machines built in Australia under licence, or via subsidiary companies - everything from Cat bulldozers, through to forklifts, and guns, to the smallest implements.

 

They all met the quality levels required to match the overseas-built equipment and implements. I have never seen any suggestion the armaments supplied by LSA were substandard.

 

Any amount of times, overseas factories have built equipment, tools, machines, and implements, using components sourced from factories around the world.

 

Lee-Enfields were built in the U.K. using this system, so it's likely a "genuine" Lee-Enfield contains components from Lithgow. Certainly during times of War, these steps were necessary to increase the production levels demanded.

 

Re the scrapped War Surplus aircraft, they sold for as low as £5/10/0 ($11.00), and they were put to use in a myriad of ways, from living quarters, trailers, and chicken coops, to even being being used as an "air-conditioner", to reduce frost damage in an orchard.

 

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/35998889

 

 

[spacesailor]

DUMPED WAR EQUIPMENT !.

 

West of the Hawksbury river bridge Sydney.  You will find the old HMAS SYDNEY. Just run lup onto the shore, & left to rot.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[willedoo]

Sometimes the terminology gets blurred as people often refer to license built production as copies. I'd guess there is some leeway in certain licenses, but most of the military equipment would be to original spec, assuming production would be a defence contract. Then there's other cases like the Shvetsov ASh-62 that powers the An-2 biplane. Not a copy; originally developed and built under a license from Wright based on the Cyclone 9, but the original was improved upon and was never called by the same name as the Wright 9. On the flip side of the coin, an old WW2 Mk.111A reflective gunsight I have was license built in Australia during the war. It seems identical to the British one except for the made in Australia stamp.

 

 

[old man emu]

We seemed to have had a thriving industry making precision flight instruments, as well as other machinery production.

 

I wonder if the idea that a woman's place was in the home killed off our manufacturing capability after the war? Just think of all those women who developed high level manufacturing skills being tossed into the kitchen when the men who had been soldiers came home. A soldier's skills are not really applicable to manufacturing. It has taken nearly 75 years for this patriarchy to accept that women can do the same work as men, especially when everyone has access to the same labour-saving tools.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Since the Lee-Enfield was produced from the late 1800's, through WWl, I wonder if Lithgow had been making them all that time, or if, when WWll started, they had a stockpile of left-overs from WWl.

 

[ATTACH]50539._xfImport[/ATTACH] 

 

This prompted me to have a closer look at my old faithful. She's older than I realised.

 

...have to consider the mindset of the people at the end of nearly six years of war. They wanted out of the military and to "turn swords into plowshares".

 

Totally understandable, given the shortages at home and privations suffered by many who went away.

 

I've met a number of WWII pilots who never flew after the war; some missed it, others had no interest.

 

[old man emu]

Lack of housing was one of the privations that generation suffered. http://www.housing.wa.gov.au/HousingDocuments/Centenary_Flashback_PostWar_Housing_Crisis_Sparks_Royal_Commission.pdf

 

Manys the Baby Boomer whose first toddling steps were taken in a one or two roomed flat in and old "residential". It took a War Service Loan and a lot of sweat for my parents to get a house built by 1950. 

 

From this: 

 

[ATTACH]50541._xfImport[/ATTACH]  to this: [ATTACH]50542._xfImport[/ATTACH]   then this:  [ATTACH]50543._xfImport[/ATTACH]  

 

and finally this: 

 

[ATTACH]50544._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]50540._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[pmccarthy]

OME it looks like our house. We (well I was a baby) lived in a “ temporary dwelling” for two years, which became the garage when the house was finished.

 

 

[old man emu]

Here's a photo of me on our front lawn. In the background you can see the neighbours' temporary house - a garage.

 

[ATTACH]50545._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

Here's a plan from the James Hardie Fibrolite book that is basically what the house my parents built was like. Only difference was that teh No 1 bedroom and lounge room swapped sides.

 

[ATTACH]50546._xfImport[/ATTACH]http://dro.deakin.edu.au/eserv/DU:30122254/james1938hardiesfibrolite.pdf

 

[pmccarthy]

You haven’t changed a bit.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I'll see you, and raise you...

 

Now a densely settled suburb in Sydney.

 

[ATTACH]50547._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]50548._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]50549._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]50550._xfImport[/ATTACH]

[old man emu]

Flat country. Southwest Sydney somewhere?

 

 

[pmccarthy]

It’s in Klein’s Road, Northmead.

 

 

[spacesailor]

One person in Kleins Rd Northmead. Had a house on one acre,  with horse corals at the  back, but had to sell a quarter block, to pay councils  hight rates. 

 

The new quarter acre owner built his house, tnen complained bitterly about the horse smell,s, making the original owner sell up & move.

 

NOW TOWN HOUSES. more rates for council.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[onetrack]

In the immediate aftermath of WW2, the greatest urgency was in re-establishing normal life for hundreds of millions of people around the world - by way of food and supplies of materials that were needed for rebuilding war-shattered regions.

 

To this end, America set up and basically controlled UNRRA - The United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration.

 

UNRRA was only in full operation for 2 years - from 1945 to 1947 - although it had been formed by the U.S. in 1943, before being handed over to U.N. control, once that organisation was set up in 1945.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Relief_and_Rehabilitation_Administration

 

The Americans set up and re-arranged War surplus Depts on a regular basis - thus, no doubt leading to confusion and losses, as well as poor record-keeping, and lost records.

 

The U.S. initially set up the Surplus Property Act in Oct 1944, and from that, created the Surplus Property Board.

 

Then the Secretary of the Navy and the Secretary of the Army set up the Army-Navy Liquidation Commission, to deal with U.S. Military surplus that was located outside the U.S., apart from U.S. territories and possessions.

 

Then, on 1st May 1945, the Office of Surplus Property was transferred via Executive Order to the Dept of Commerce, from the Dept of Treasury. I am presuming the Office of Surplus Property, was a different Dept, to the Surplus Property Board.

 

On 18th Sept 1945, Congress voted to replace the Surplus Property Board, with the Surplus Property Administration.

 

Another Executive Order dated 27th Sept 1945, abolished the Army-Navy Liquidation Commission, and transferred control of the disposal of War surplus, over to the U.S. State Dept.

 

Another Executive Order dated 19th Oct 1945, transferred the Office of Surplus Property from the Dept of Commerce to the Reconstruction Finance Corporation.

 

The RFC promptly created another Dept (!) - the War Assets Corporation, as its agency for handling surplus U.S. War property. Talk about throwing a hot potato around!

 

Obviously, a lot of pressure from U.S. Industrialists was being applied to the U.S. Govt - the Industrialists did not want vast amounts of War surplus returned to the U.S., to damage new factory production sales.

 

A final Executive Order dated 1st Feb 1946, reduced the War Assets Corp responsibility to just War surplus located in the U.S.

 

Congress then declared the Dept of State was to be the sole disposal agency for War surplus located outside the U.S.

 

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=gW0vgTVHUyYC&pg=PA570&lpg=PA570&dq=WW2+U.S.+Liquidation+Commission&source=bl&ots=Dg4Q0pSGMQ&sig=ACfU3U2pQaadB9tT5CkBXMjxInnXXdSkLw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjprbKHkebmAhVM7nMBHVaYCn0Q6AEwDnoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=WW2 U.S. Liquidation Commission&f=false

 

China was a huge beneficiary of the surplus Lend Lease equipment left in the S.W. Pacific. Quite a bit of Lend Lease equipment and materials located in the S.W. Pacific simply disappeared in the aftermath of WW2 - pilfered by locals and other "entrepeneurial" individuals. I have no doubt some Australian and Kiwi individuals were amongst the Lend Lease War surplus pilferers.

 

One initial War surplus contract, in March 1946, was negotiated between the U.S., Britain, France and Italy, whereby those 3 countries paid the U.S., US$532M, in a "bulk sale agreement".

 

But a vast amount of Lend Lease War surplus still remained in the S.W. Pacific, and the War Assets Administration organised for a substantial portion of the War surplus in this region, to be handed over to the Chinese.

 

I was surprised to find that America ended up indebted to China for some A£53M (approx US$150M) in the aftermath of the War, and this was the method the U.S. used to pay their debt to China - they gave them a large percentage of the still-operational War surplus equipment, plus the salvage rights to all the War scrap left in the S.W. Pacific.

 

The Chinese ended up gathering up multiple millions of tons of scrap steel from the War zones in the S.W. Pacific, and in Feb 1948, China announced she had at least 2,000,000 tons of scrap steel available for sale to any global buyer.

 

1,000,000 tons of this stockpile of steel scrap was sold to Bethlehem Steel for A£9M (approx US$27M). The shipping cost to the U.S. was more than 55% of the sale value, but despite that, there was still a sizeable profit in the sale for the Chinese.

 

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/42573328

 

America was getting quite desperate for raw steel supplies by the late 1940's, they had essentially mined out all their high grade (60% Fe) Hematite iron ore from the Mesabi Range in Minnesota, for WW2 armaments and equipment production, and were left only with low-grade Taconite (30% Fe), which had been discarded as waste for many decades.

 

It wasn't until a clever U.S. metallurgist figured out an economic way to extract the iron from Taconite, via pelletising, in 1955, that the American steel industry could breathe a sigh of relief that they wouldn't become dependent on having to import high grade Hematite ore, to keep their massive steel industry going.

 

Some of the U.S. steel mills in those heady days could produce a million tons of pig iron a day. That just gives you some idea of the staggering capabilities of U.S. industry, that produced the goods for WW2.

 

Of course, the 1,000,000 tonnes of scrap purchased by Bethlehem Steel is only one days large mill production, on that basis - but scrap is an important part of steel production, and is needed to lower production costs, and provide an improved level of steel quality. Scrap has a known quality of iron, it has been previously refined, and with every re-refining of scrap, steel quality continues to improve. 

 

https://www.nrri.umn.edu/natural-resources-research-institute/news/davis-taconite

 

 

[onetrack]

I've struck gold here, in regard to the story of the disposal of America's War surplus - with a 33 page booklet by Sam Lebovic, a PhD candidate at the University of Chicago - who writes about the major link between the disposal of America's War surplus, and the initiation and execution of the Fulbright Student Exchange Program.

 

This is something I was completely unaware of. I knew of the Fulbright Exchange Program, but always considered it a simplistic deal for Foreign students to learn about America, and for American students to learn about Foreign countries.

 

But this book delves into the vastly deeper politicisation of the Fulbright Program, and why the U.S. State Dept was given total control of disposing of the War Surplus of WW2.

 

Simply put, the State Dept realised they could get more than monetary value from disposing of the War Surplus - they could get trade concessions, property for embassies, landing rights for American airlines, and other useful advantages, as part of deals struck, when the War surplus was being sold off. 

 

Moreover, the Fulbright Program could be used to propagate "The American Way of Democracy" to the rest of the world - because now that America had won the War against the Evil Axis powers, didn't that show that America's style of thinking, style of government, and culture, truly was the leading way of the Free world? And who wouldn't want to copy American culture, because of that?

 

In addition, the assymetry of the world power imbalance, in Americas favour, was a tool that could be used, along with the Fulbright Program, to further Americas interests in the rest of the world, and to ensure that America stayed the Leader of the Free World, in the glorious period of the "American Century".

 

As Sam Lebovic points out, "the full story of the disposal of Americas WW2 War surplus, is yet to be written". But this booklet goes into great detail as regards the fascinating political and financial machinations that went on, as the Americans sought to fully capitalise on any remaining value in the War surplus, by tying the War surplus disposal agreements - and the Fulbright program - in with their political, cultural, economic, and financial aims - all to the major benefit of America, and to assist in the global propagation of its culture.

 

You can read this booklet free online, simply by registering or logging in with a local library username and password, or even just a Google account. I regard the booklet as a very worthy read for any student of WW2 American history.

 

https://www.jstor.org/stable/26376447

 

 

[onetrack]

Here's more interesting information regarding the U.S. War surplus - specifically in the Pacific Region.

 

The link below, is to a report provided by H. Wendell Endicott, the Field Commissioner for the Foreign Liquidation Commission, to a Senate Hearing that commenced in Sept 1945.

 

The actual report title, is "Demobilisation of the Armed Forces - Hearings Before the Committee on Military Affairs, United States Senate, Sept 12th-19th, 1945. The Hearing was being held to specifically address U.S. Forces demobilisation issues.

 

(The Hearings are in three parts, as they were initially held in Sept 1945, but went through to early 1946. Wendicott's report was from Oct 1945.)

 

Wendicott gives a good report on the trials facing him and his task of liquidating the War surplus in the Pacific. He addresses the major problems that have to be faced - and they were primarily, the rapid degeneration of much of the War surplus equipment and stores, mostly because of Tropical conditions of moisture, humidity, mud, and inadequate under-cover storage - coupled with a severe and constantly ongoing reduction in troops and manpower needed to protect, store, repair and salvage the equipment and stores.

 

In essence, Wendicott was between a rock and hard place. He points out there's no point in spending $1000 to rescue $500 worth of War surplus - which was easy to do - and which was often being done, in the salvage of the War surplus.

 

The War surplus had to be guarded, it had to be recovered from poor storage, it often had to be repackaged, stored properly - and if moved, it had to be handled, at more cost again - with shipping facilities that were often ad-hoc, damaged, and suffering from a lack of personnel.

 

A fair percentage of the surplus was already in poor condition by late 1945, due to a lack of storage, poor handling in rushed Wartime conditions, and inadequate protection and packaging in the first place.

 

None of this equipment or stores was ever planned to be stored or protected for long periods of time. Even Cosmolene-coated machinery components go rusty after 6 mths in Tropical conditions.

 

In essence, Wendicott was in a race against time and weather, aggravated by constant Pacific troop reductions, to get some value out of the surplus before it became worthless.

 

He also rebutts the stories about huge wastage by wholesale dumping - and this cuts the ground right out from under the War History Online writer, who claims that vast quantities of War equipment was dumped, buried or burnt.

 

Wendicott specifically refers to one untrue story propagated by an Australian journalist who paid a flying trip to PNG, and who, upon his return, wrote up an article about vast amounts of surplus dumping going on there.

 

It's obvious the journalist saw one lot of equipment or stores being dumped, and presumed that was happening all over PNG, on a wholesale basis.

 

As Wendicott points out, there was a need to dump considerable amounts of supplies that had a short lifespan (such as food supplies), or which had been damaged beyond redemption, by poor storage or poor handing.

 

The Wendicott report covers pages 323 to 337, and makes for interesting reading, as it came directly from the man who personally visited all the Pacific islands where War surplus was located, and who had the unenviable job of disposing of it, without incurring more major cost for the U.S. - and without incurring the wrath of important people who believed the entire War surplus was just being abandoned, dumped in the ocean, buried, burnt, or given away.

 

One of the interesting items in the report is that the total of the War surplus outside the U.S. was noted as being US$10B (1945 dollars) in reports I had seen in newspapers - but the total value figure supplied by the General being interviewed by the Senate, was US$14B!

 

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=_r9FAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA323&lpg=PA323&dq=H.+Wendell+Endicott+Liquidation+Commission&source=bl&ots=LjWfmaTZSV&sig=ACfU3U3RecRP7LZD_zAugtTW48FRHkUdlQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjqufTe--nmAhXiyzgGHU_UD0EQ6AEwAHoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=H. Wendell Endicott Liquidation Commission&f=false

 

 

[facthunter]

I've worked with a fair bit of WD surplus and the "tropic proof " packing on US stuff was pretty effective at keeping things in good condition. I've put into service "NEW" inhibited Harley 45 engines that just need immersing in boiling water( Or you can use a solvent) to soften the brown wax on cloth  or good cardboard and every part is without corrosion. You have to completely dismantle the engines as the wax has gone quite hard and the roller bearings wouldn't spin properly unless carefully cleaned on the rings be free in their grooves, if all wasn't carefully removed. It's an absolute pleasure to work on something that's completely brand new and un butchered. Nev.

 

 

[onetrack]

I've got an anecdote about one of the War Surplus stockpiles, which I believe is completely true, because it was told to me by a gentleman who was there on the base for a considerable time, and who knew all the details.

 

This particular War Surplus stockpile was located at 5BOD (Base Ordnance Depot) at Nungarin, a tiny little town located 39 kms N of Merredin - the nearest large town, located on the Gt Eastern Hwy, 260kms from Perth.

 

5BOD was the largest Ordance Depot in Western Australia during WW2. It was set on an 800 acre (324 Ha) farmers paddock, which was requisitioned from the farmer.

 

There were 12 main Warehouse buildings, comprising a surface area under cover, of 376,230 square feet (just under 35,000 sq metres). The setup cost of 5BOD was estimated at £10,000,000 ($20M) in 1940's money.

 

That amount would be around $850,000,000 in todays money. 5BOD storehouses occupied 615 acres (nearly 250 Ha) of the area of the base.

 

http://inherit.stateheritage.wa.gov.au/Public/Inventory/Details/16d8287f-3869-40d6-ac7e-95a317b18e40

 

The gent who related the story to me was an old Italian, originally brought up in Southern Cross, W.A. His name was Bruno Giumelli, and he was a miners son from the Cross.

 

Bruno worked all through the W.A. Goldfields up until the early 1950's, when he relocated to Perth, and got into the truck and van body-building industry.

 

When I met Bruno around 1992, he was running his own truck and van body-building business in Ashfield, W.A. I rented some workshop space off him at the time for several weeks, and got to know him fairly well.

 

During the War, Bruno was in 12 Employment Company, which was located at 5BOD. He related a story to me about 5BOD, that I never knew anything about, previously - plus the hidden details behind the event.

 

As a little diversionary information here, the Employment Companies (also known as Labour Companies, Works Companies, Labour Unit, Labour Corps) were units comprised almost entirely of Interned Aliens.

 

As Bruno was born in Italy, and never naturalised, he was interned (along with many thousands of other Italians, and other races), then placed in 12 Employment Company, which provided an essential labour force for the War effort.

 

The bulk of the Employment Companies/Labour Corps were volunteers - and they were pretty much all willing workers for the War effort. Bruno was discharged from the Army in Sept 1946.

 

Here's a link to a good article about these Companies. I like the journalists description therein - "Men who could not be trusted to carry arms, spent their days loading bombs onto trucks". 

 

Forgotten Soldiers - http://www.yosselbirstein.org/pdf/eng/other/Forgotten_Soldiers.pdf

 

Anyway, back to the story - the War ended, and 5BOD became a base staffed at minimal levels, and also became a major storage area for War Surplus material and equipment, that was either already on site, or gathered up from other areas.

 

Then disaster struck. On 19th February 1947, a huge fire started in one of the main 5BOD warehouses - the one containing the majority of the War Surplus goods.

 

The firemen took quite a while to start firefighting efforts, hampered by the usual firefighting problems of a pump that wouldn't start, and poor water pressure.

 

By the time they started pumping water on, the building and contents were basically already destroyed. The building was timber framed, but contained a huge 10 ton girder crane, that ran the length of the building on steel supports.

 

The eventual damage bill was reported at £250,000 ($500,000). I believe that figure was possibly conservative.

 

Of course, there was the inevitable major Coronial inquiry and grilling of witnesses, Police reports, and a determination that the cause of the fire was suspicious - but that no precise cause for the blaze could be identified.

 

As a result the fire inquiry fizzled out, into an "open finding".

 

5BOD fire - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/78247527

 

Fire Inquiry - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/78249838

 

Fire Inquiry - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/202752444

 

Coroner releases Fire Inquiry finding - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/50342526

 

Now, one time when I was chatting to Bruno - and something came up about the military - he said to me, "You know about the big fire at 5BOD Nungarin in 1947, don't you? And what caused it?".

 

I said, "No, I never knew a thing about this big fire. Tell me more". "Well", he said, "you know how it was during the War - shortages of everything, you couldn't get new tyres, you couldn't get new spare parts, you couldn't get petrol?"

 

"There was a crooked officer at 5BOD, it was rumoured that he was selling off Army equipment from the warehouse stockpile - new truck tyres, new Ford V8 engines, petrol, new gensets, new spare parts - you name it".

"It appears this corruption started when local farmers started realising the vast amount of new stores that were in this warehouse - things that they desperately needed - spares, engines, and tyres".

 

"So someone - possibly a local farmer, corrupted this officer, and all the local farmers started 'acquiring' all these badly-needed supplies. Of course, the farms were isolated and a long way from Perth, so who was going to check?"

 

"It wasn't helped by the fact that there was no proper Inventory kept of the stores, unbelievable as it seems. But the Camp CO had initiated a Store Inventory, about 2 weeks before the fire - and it was obvious to the crooked officer, the game might soon be up for him!"

 

"So, he organised this fire to cover his tracks! The fact that they could find no-one responsible for the fire, shows it was an 'inside' job! - and who else but the crooked officer knew the whole place inside out?"

 

"As far as I know, he was never caught or charged, and he took his secret to his grave! And that's the true story behind the Nungarin 5BOD fire!"

 

"There was witnesses saying they heard a couple of the soldiers yelling, 'let the bastard burn!' - but the reason those blokes were yelling that, was that they were sick of the isolation at 5BOD, and they wanted the place to burn down, so they could be transferred back to Bushmead, on the outskirts of Perth!"

 

Old Bruno died suddenly, sitting in his chair at home, in 2007, at the age of 83. But he left us with a great "inside" story, about the big Nungarin 5BOD warehouse fire.