Scotty from Marketing

[Yenn]

Why are state governments running the quarantine facilities. That is a federal government responsibility according to our constitution. Of course the feds have declined to do the job and the states have had to take it over, but if the states stuff it up. It is still the responsibility of the feds.

What our problem is is that the government keeps doing the wrong thing and we are too stupid to do anything about it. That is speaking collectively.

People I talk to seem to not remember things the government has done if it precedes the latest news flash. A large number seem to think that Scumbag is doing a good job and they also believe anything he says about the opposition.

I would like to remind them that voting is not compulsory. What is compulsory is to go to the polling station and get your name crossed off the roll. What you do with the voting papers they give you is up to you.

[Dax]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Your last para just is not true. Labor has been crying for better quarantine all along. Queensland is going it alone in frustration. 

Haven't heard a word form Albanese about it, nor any other labor hack, although they may have and I've not read about it. But it seems oppositions from both sides are pretty silent on this and just about every thing else.

 

Both Q and Vic labor have been saying they are going to build quarantine facilities for the last year or so. So far not one has come to fruition and there has been no evidence that they have started anywhere. Many private companies including those that own private airports capable of taking international flights have offered to build them in both states, yet nothing has happened and they are both labor states.

 

Why that is, is either plain dumb stupidity, or their vested interests in the hotel industry and off course the now privately operated airports the people build, would not want their business to go elsewhere. Having quarantine in the CBD, allows hotels to charge heaps, keep their hotels full and they couldn't give stuff what happens to the population, or they wouldn't be using second rate untrained security staff, most can't speak proper english. Many seem to have other jobs, against the supposed rules and that's how the virus is being spread from the hotels, which are not designed for quarantine and they have no chance of restricting it to individual rooms. But rules to politicians and their vested interests, mean nothing as we see with the constant breaking of them by politicians of all persuasions.

[facthunter]

Maybe you aren't looking in the right papers.  Let me assure you it's been a hot issue in Vic and Qld. Quarantine is a federal responsibility by law and He's not co operated. The only suitable one is in the NT.. which is at capacity. The Qld one is being built at Wellcamp with no help from the Feds. Nev

[Marty_d]

Dax I respect your right to think what you like and to post a donkey vote at the ballot box.

However I still have the firm opinion that Labor is marginally better than the LNP in most areas.  If Kevin and Wayne hadn't gone so hard in 2008 we would have been in a far worse position - and their example was used by the LNP this time around in the form of Jobkeeper and other disaster payments.  Labor at least tried to bring in an ETS and carbon tax - both shot down by the LNP, and in the case of the ETS was also failed by the Greens.

 

So I'll continue to participate in democracy and cast a vote against all right-wing / conservative parties whenever I have the opportunity.

[Dax]

49 minutes ago, facthunter said:

The Qld one is being built at Wellcamp with no help from the Feds. Nev

Apologies, forgot they had decided to built one and it has only got started and will only handle 500 people for the first year and that won't be until the end of this year. Yes the feds are totally against building it and one in Vic, in fact they had to by dragged into expanding the NT one and probably wrong, but don't know if that expansion has started yet. At the rate governments move, it always take 20 times longer to do something private enterprise would do in a tenth of the time.

[old man emu]

 

Me: The problem we have is that the Opposition parties don't get equal exposure in the media. Watch the News. It's Scotty and Gladys all the time

Dax: Maybe its because they have nothing of worth to say

Dax: Haven't heard a word form Albanese 

Facthunter: Maybe you aren't looking in the right papers.

 

Similarly for the TV news as for the print media. The vast majority of newspapers in this country are aligned with Murdoch and the like, even down to the small town weekly rags. If they decide to give space to any views contrary to their own, you'll have to dig through the columns of advertising in the back third of the paper to find them. It seems that the Barrier Daily Truth is the only Labor-orientated newspaper still in print.

[Dax]

1 hour ago, Marty_d said:

Labor at least tried to bring in an ETS and carbon tax - both shot down by the LNP, and in the case of the ETS was also failed by the Greens.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-10/carbon-tax-timeline/5569118

 

This is the time line and actions taken by labor surrounding the ETS and the reason they lost the next election.

 

1 hour ago, Marty_d said:

So I'll continue to participate in democracy and cast a vote against all right-wing / conservative parties whenever I have the opportunity.

You're welcome vote how you want, I'm not prepared to give a vote to a bunch of deranged ideological clones from both parties who have done nothing, but feather the nests of their cooperate and ideological vested interests.

 

In NSW, they are about to jail two former labor minister who were so corrupt they got a $30 million windfall.

 

As for voting, a democracy gives us the right to vote how we see fit, the constitution only states we have to vote. Why should I give a vote to those who are destroying the future as fast as they can and all for the mighty dollar and ideological beliefs.

 

An informal vote is a legal vote, unlike unconstitutional preferential voting system, which gives your vote to others other then your first choice, finally ending up with the major parties. How is that getting value for your vote, it would if it was just a constitutionality correct direct vote. But preferential voting ends up in the pockets of the major parties in an indirect way.

 

I believe in adhering to our constitution, not blatantly abandoning it and both parties are complicit in that criminality. My vote either goes to an independent, or no one and it's a direct vote, I never choose preferences as I believe in our constitution as the ultimate law. Seems you and the majority don't, because you accept and support voting unconstitutionally as legal. Nothing like being complicit in flouting our constitution and supporting unconstitutionally elected morons.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Dax

[octave]

I think whether or not you hear from the opposition in the media depends on where you go for your news.    ABC Insiders on a sunday morning has a 15 minute interview with a politician and they alternate between government and opposition.

 

Anthony Albanese speaks on hotel quarantine

[octave]

So here is a list of ABC  Insiders interviews. I haven't done a tally but there seems to be a mix of government, opposition and minor party interviews.   Perhaps the Murdoch press doesn't cover the opposition as much.

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn2RjxYNpcayY0zHjGoj0zNq-msE32bsO

 

 

[Fliteright]

Politics in this corrupt nation is just a game between legal criminals!

[old man emu]

I don't know about you, but I don't think that all this kerfuffle about COVID is a massive distraction from the main role of government which is to protect the people and the land. Just under 1,100 deaths since March last year, and 63,000 infected persons since them. The number infected is 0.2% of the population.  As a result of the panic, the mental health of the population has declined; the contribution of small and micro business has declined, and government expenditure has sky-rocketed. 

 

Look at what we normally accepted each year from the 'flu:

 

 

So, what should the government really be taking seriously? What about the death of the Darling River system? Unique flora and fauna is being lost due to, you guessed it, Big Business, in this case King Cotton. 

 

FROM:

Australian Academy of Science, Investigation of the causes of mass fish kills in the Menindee Region NSW over the summer of 2018-2019

 

The AAS Report placed greater emphasis on the governance and management of water in the Murray Darling Basin • The root cause of the fish kills is that there is not enough water in the Darling system to avoid catastrophic decline of condition through dry periods. This is despite a substantial body of scientific research that points to the need for appropriate flow regimes. Similarly, engagement with local residents, Indigenous and non-Indigenous, has been cursory at best, resulting in insufficient use of their knowledge and engagement around how the system is best managed.

 

[octave]

19 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Just under 1,100 deaths since March last year, and 63,000 infected persons

 

It has to be remembered that these numbers are the result of the current restrictions. The question is what would those numbers be if we didn't take it seriously?  I agree that there are many other problems to be tackled as well.

[facthunter]

The rorting of the Murray Darling and associated rivers was dreadfull and should be ruthlessly investigated and people Gaoled. The transportability of water all along the river was a recipe for disaster. I was an irrigator of a property which without water would quickly revert to a desert. the river was always overallocated and it just got worse.. NSW irrigators used to laugh at the price Victorians payed.  Water often flowed over roads in many irrigated areas due careless management. Sprinklers ran continuously on lawns etc Salinity is a lurking problem. . Investors mostly from overseas speculate and push the price of water up to a level where only cotton and almonds can support it It used to be rice. These crops should not be grown in the desert milking dry a long inland river with a very variable flow. Water is also sold that doesn't exist. This is the disgrace of disgraces Nationally but t here's others contaminated beyond use. Rivers  cannot be sewers for heavy metals. This is the driest Continent on earth they say. Nev

[Dax]

34 minutes ago, octave said:

The question is what would those numbers be if we didn't take it seriously? 

A bigger question would be what would the numbers be if from the start,they put all quarantine outside cities. There are many places round the country which could be utilised, including little used military bases, abandoned mining towns, plus many unused resorts that are away from populations.

 

On the Whitsunday islands, there are many resorts not being used and the closest airports are able to take international flights I believe. Everyone coming into Aus could spend their first 14 days here on a barrier reef island resort, it would do wonders for the tourist industry, local economies and not hurt CBD hotels, tourists would still head to cities after quarantining.

 

There were so many options which would have saved us from this looming collapse of society and all the poor people who died an suffered, if it goes on, all that will be left is multinationals and major corporations. Just about all small business will go down the drain, you can only run a business is if you have adequate turnover, all small business have bottom lines of trade ability. Fall below that and with no long term monetary back up, it's not long before you can no longer carry the load and have to stop trading.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Dax

[octave]

Just now, Dax said:

A bigger question would be what would the numbers be if they form the start, put all quarantine outside cities

 

To be fair in the early days we did not know what we know now.     I am not sure if any country did the perfect thing early on.  It is always easy to be an expert without knowledge of all the ins and outs.   Most areas have many more complications than the lay expert is aware of.     By way of an example where do you instantly source the staff for remote quarantine. as some of these will inevitably  get very sick we would need to ensure either ICU facilities or emergency transport.  What are the social implications?    We could just say that no one came come in from overseas, do we isolate family members indefinitely?  The fact that as far as I know no large country has kept covid out suggest that either every government is dumb or it is not as easy as it appears from the outside.   

[willedoo]

4 hours ago, Dax said:

Apologies, forgot they had decided to built one and it has only got started and will only handle 500 people for the first year and that won't be until the end of this year. Yes the feds are totally against building it and one in Vic, in fact they had to by dragged into expanding the NT one and probably wrong, but don't know if that expansion has started yet. At the rate governments move, it always take 20 times longer to do something private enterprise would do in a tenth of the time.

The Wellcamp project is in good hands. Whether you love or hate the Wagners, they get things done. With the Wellcamp airport, from turning the first shovel of soil to airport completion was 18 months. If it was a government project, 18 months would see them still arguing over who's going to make up the first focus group.

[nomadpete]

Or, Octave, that most governments worldwide, share a primary interest in acting in the interests in their big business sponsors.

[Dax]

9 hours ago, octave said:

 

  The fact that as far as I know no large country has kept covid out suggest that either every government is dumb or it is not as easy as it appears from the outside.   

I'll stick with every government supporting their vested interests and being so deep in denial of reality, they refuse to even consider their approach is wrong.

 

9 hours ago, octave said:

To be fair in the early days we did not know what we know now. 

If that were the  case, they wouldn't have shut the borders so fast and now we are seeing numbers still rising even though lost of countries are well into being vaccinated, yet they still cling desperately to what is proven to be a failed approach and that goes for all policies our governments are pursuing, not one is working for the people or future. 

 

As for staff, makes no difference it would take one week to train and organise staff, it's not rocket science and I class this as a war to survive and its being lost fast. Now its been more than 18 months and they still haven't done anything but made it worse, surely even the dumbest idiots would have woken up to the fact that it's a very bad virus and taken action.

 

Seems any form of change is in the to hard basket for most in this day and age, which to me shows we are doomed when governments deliberately ensure the people and small business suffer to the point of sociological collapse, because they are totally stupid and to support their vested interests no matter the cost.

 

When you look a the decisions all government makes in this country, only the most dedicated political clones wouldn't see where they are taking the country and for that matter the world. They all think this pandemic will be over soon  and they have had the mind  set from the outset, but this century has seen at least 3 viral covid outbreaks, each time they have got worse and spread. Now we are starting to see overseas, people getting very sick even though they are fully vaccinated.

 

Israel is about to administer the 4th vaccination because the first 3 they've already administered, aren't working and their hospital numbers continue to rise within vaccinated people. They are not an isolated place where it's happening, it's starting to happen everywhere.

 

How many vaccinations do you need that aren't working, before these vaccinations actually start contribute to the virus mutating and using the vaccination as a booster then killing people. How many vaccinations will it take before the human immune system collapses under the onslaught of viral vaccinations.

[octave]

2 hours ago, Dax said:

Israel is about to administer the 4th vaccination because the first 3 they've already administered, aren't working and their hospital numbers continue to rise within vaccinated people.

Can you substantiate this?  My understanding is that they have only just begun to offer a 3rd dose to some people.    Third vaccine dose reduces transmission and severe COVID-19 nationwide in Israel

 

2 hours ago, Dax said:

As for staff, makes no difference it would take one week to train and organise staff, it's not rocket science

 

I am talking of medical staff here.   If you are going to send people who may have covid you either have to have the means to transfer people who get seriously ill or they need highly trained medical staff on site.  On the rec flying forum someone said that they thought  that  over stretched hospitas in NSW were no problem because "they can just build field hospitals"   which naively

ignores the fact that the problem is not buildings and equipment but the highly trained staff required to run such a facility.

 

2 hours ago, Dax said:

which to me shows we are doomed when governments deliberately ensure the people and small business suffer to the point of sociological collapse, because they are totally stupid and to support their vested interests no matter the cost.

Which businesses are we talking of here?  Airlines?    

 

One of the problems is that whatever  approach the government takes it will always be a balancing act.  With our present border closures there are heartbreaking stories of separated families. The decisions being made around these issue are not just simple binary choices.  Epidemiologists look at the evidence and give their best recommendations to the government and the government then decides what they can practically do.   As an example I know how to eliminate covid in three weeks.   You just have an airtight lockdown. absolutely everyone is locked down, no exceptions.  Theoretically this would work but practically it would not.   There would be rioting in the streets.  In the end unless we have marshal law there are limits to what a government can do.

 

2 hours ago, Dax said:

How many vaccinations do you need that aren't working, before these vaccinations actually start contribute to the virus mutating and using the vaccination as a booster then killing people.

 

Ah, your also a medical expert!      It was always foreseen from the very start that booster shots would be needed.  This is not unusual, flu for example.  

 

 

Dax I am always skeptical when people claim they they alone have all the answers.   What you seem to be saying is that throughout the whole world from socialist countries through to dictatorships every country in the world has failed but Dax has all the answers.  No need for years of studying epidemiology, Dax has all the answers.

[Dax]

17 minutes ago, octave said:

Can you substantiate this? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9959811/Israel-planning-administer-FOURTH-Covid-vaccine-adjusted-fight-new-variants.html

 

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/coronavirus/1630776202-israel-should-begin-preparing-for-rollout-of-4th-vaccine-dose-pandemic-czar-says

[octave]

2 minutes ago, Dax said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9959811/Israel-planning-administer-FOURTH-Covid-vaccine-adjusted-fight-new-variants.html

 

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/coronavirus/1630776202-israel-should-begin-preparing-for-rollout-of-4th-vaccine-dose-pandemic-czar-says

3 hours ago, Dax said:

Israel is about to administer the 4th vaccination because the first 3 they've already administered, 

 

Both of these articles refer to future plans.  To be clear the 3rd dose has not been fully administered as of yesterday (Sep8 ) around 1.5 million 3rd doses have been given to selected people. 

 

Last month, Israel became the first country in the world to begin offering booster shots to those age of 60 and up, and has been gradually lowering the age limit since. On Friday, it began offering the shot to the 40-49 age group .According to Health Ministry data on Tuesday, 1,575,898 Israelis have received a third dose of the vaccine so far.

 

[Dax]

45 minutes ago, octave said:

I am talking of medical staff here. 

I was talking about security, from which most outbreaks occur. As for medical staff, without the need in urban areas, staff could easily be moved to rural quarantine facilities. The military do it all the time, moving field facilities around which have very good IC services, when you consider the types of injuries suffered in war zones.

 

45 minutes ago, octave said:

Ah, your also a medical expert!      It was always foreseen from the very start that booster shots would be needed.  This is not unusual, flu for example.  

Never had a flu shot, haven't had the flu cold or been sick for many decades. Put that down to my diet which doesn't include diary products, which are in my opinion the breeding ground of viral infections. I'm getting the AZ jav as soon as our area gets some vaccines, because I see this virus as being different to flu viruses. But don't have faith in its long term reliability to combat what seems a constantly evolving virus now being seen to be making the vaccinated very sick.

 

45 minutes ago, octave said:

Dax I am always skeptical when people claim they they alone have all the answers. 

Don't recollect every saying anything of the sort, have no education other than from life, but according to the psychs I saw decades ago, I'm what they call a lateral thinking realist. Have yet to work out what that really means but do look for other ways to handle things and outside the normal approach humans take.

 

If someone putting forward alternative ways and has a different outlook on life and our current situation, which upsets you, you may have a problem yourself. I have no answers, just suggestions, but it seems only the accepted ideologically controlled approach that isn't working is acceptable. Maybe that's why our societies are falling apart worldwide, no one can step outside their ideological fear and indoctrination, but I have no fear of change or of looking outside the box for answers, that's been my entire life, change and it continues today.

 

That doesn't mean I have all the answers, just that I see things from a different angle to most. I put that down to my early life of surviving on the streets at a very young age and having to learn to find different ways to survive and get myself our of very dangerous situations. You learn to look at every avenue and direction, then you work out the outcomes of each approach according to the real facts and take the necessary action. Nothing know it all about that, just pure logical common sense.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Dax

[Dax]

18 minutes ago, octave said:

Both of these articles refer to future plans.  To be clear the 3rd dose has not been fully administered as of yesterday (Sep8 ) around 1.5 million 3rd doses have been given to selected people. 

The future is according to how we act today, suggesting they may have to go to 4 doses, shows that's what they can see the future being. I'm just amplifying their thoughts and the reality is, Israel even though heavily vaccinated and opening their society, is now seeing a huge increase in hospitalisation of the gully vaccinated. Or are those facts irrelevant to you.

[octave]

1 minute ago, Dax said:

The future is according to how we act today, suggesting they may have to go to 4 doses, shows that's what they can see the future being. I'm just amplifying their thoughts and the reality is, Israel even though heavily vaccinated and opening their society, is now seeing a huge increase in hospitalisation of the gully vaccinated. Or are those facts irrelevant to you.

Yes facts are very relevant to me.  

 

With almost 60% of the country fully vaccinated, Israel has seen a life after COVID-19. But now infections are on the rise. What's going on? Will a third jab help?

 

Taking a sample from August 16, 2021:

• 154.7 severely ill patients in Israel were unvaccinated.
• 48.4 severely ill patients were partially vaccinated
• And 19.8 severely ill patients were fully vaccinated

[octave]

5 minutes ago, Dax said:

f someone putting forward alternative ways and has a different outlook on life and our current situation, which upsets you, you may have a problem yourself.

 

Upset? No at all. I just favour evidence based decision making not gut feeling decision making.    By evidence I don't mean cherrypicked facts but the weight of the evidence sifted through people with expertise in that area.      Whether we have failed in dealing with covid is relative.  We can compare our situation with other countries and see if our response has yielded better or worse  results.     I guess the question is could we have ever been 100% successful.