COVID-19 Virus.

[Yenn]

The doctor that was in charge of trumps treatment in hospital is not a doctor of medicine. He is a doctor of osteopathic medicine.

The difference between an MD and a doctor of Osteopathic medicine is that the osteopathic doctor treats the wholeperson and the treatment is based on the whole body and aims to prevent injury and disease by studying the whole patient.

As Trump has his own physician, who I assume will be an MD and only saw the hospital doctor for 3 days, I doubt that there was on osteopathic oversight involved. Can you see trump listening to medical advice to look after hes health?

[onetrack]

I've seen some amazing things happen to people that ended their otherwise totally safe life. One that comes to mind is two brothers owned a farm in the region where I spent many years working. Their parents started the farm from virgin bush in the early 1900's, the two brothers were born there, and they lived there all their lives, and they inherited the farm after their parents passed on.

 

But they reached their 70's with never having endured any sickness or serious threat to their lives (they stayed on the farm during WW2 as farmers were exempt from military service).

 

However, one day in the early 1980's as they returned to the farm from a short trip to town, one of the brothers got out of the car to open the front gate to the farm - and a tree which had grown and stood by the front gate, since the farm was commenced - promptly fell over, right at the very moment that brother stepped out of the car, to open the gate - and it killed him on the spot!

 

What kind of mind-boggling numbers would there be, in the chances of that happening to anyone? Just goes to show, you can be the most safety-conscious person ever, and something you never even see coming, will drop out of the sky on you.

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by onetrack

[octave]

Around the world in any given day perhaps  hundreds of thousand if trees fall over. Mostly  they dont fall on anyone.  The chance of a tree falling  on someone is small Because a tree falling is not a rare event you would expect the occaisional death. The rate of deaths by tree make up a tiny number per tree fall  but the number of tree falls is enormous.

[facthunter]

Some types of gum trees are chronic branch droppers. They fall fast and with no warning and often when there's no wind.  Nev

[Marty_d]

Mostly the day AFTER the strong winds.  We've seen that several times at our place.

[Yenn]

Nothing unusual to hear a great crash and then find a tree that has just fallen over. I have one tree with a big branch from another, hung up in it. Too dangerous to get near, but it has been that way for several years. I think it is the arboreal equivalent of Covid 19.

Of course if it was Trump infected it would be wet rot, I don't think the wet rot organisms would attack him.

[Old Koreelah]

I don’t envy anyone who has been in lockdown but spare a thought for these poor buggers I flew over this morning:

 

 

[Marty_d]

Looks like you've got VG's on your wings OK... is that standard for a Jodel?

[Old Koreelah]

11 minutes ago, Marty_d said:

Looks like you've got VG's on your wings OK... is that standard for a Jodel?

No Marty. The original Jodels are designed very well and fly so well they don’t need them.

 When blokes like me add lots of stuff, causing the weight to creep up, we need add-ones like VGs and wing fences to try to keep the stall speed down. 

[spacesailor]

OK.

What are " these poor buggers " ?

spacesailor

[Old Koreelah]

Big, fat cattle, mostly black. At least these days they have somewhere to shelter from the blistering summer sun.

[red750]

This thing just keeps getting worse and worse. Now the 5 km travel limit extended for another 6 weeks under Stage 4 restrictions, Andrews' Omnibus Bill passed and a motion of no confidence in Andrews defeated. I wouldn't have confidence in sending Andrews to McDonald's for a Big Mac. We look like being stuck in stage 4 until after Christmas. This thing is not going away  -  we are going to have to learn to live with it. Andrews and Chief Medical Officer Brett Sutton should be chucked out on their ear. 

 

The thing is, people are being charged and fined for going about their normal daily routine while these peolpe who go about spreading the virus are not penalised "because they won't help tracing contacts if we penalise them." This Chastone cluster has now spread first to Kilmore, then to Shepparton by a tyre company rep visiting country tyre retailers.

 

Frustrated rant over ... for now.

[spacesailor]

BUT 

if they didn't penalise someone then they won't get ANY revenue at all.

remember the motorist is getting away with lots of fines just because they aren't driving at all !.

Haven't got me this year, as only one trip in over twelve months.

spacesailor

[red750]

WELL.

Recent new cases in Victoria   :-   6 on Tuesday, 7 on Wednesday, 1 on Thursday, 2 on Friday. No deaths for a couple of days. So Dan loosens the reigns  -  jus a tad. The 5 km limit becomes 25 km. A few businesses can open with restrictions, two people can go shopping together at the supermarket. Retail shops will be fined $10,000 if they open, no hospitality - restaurants, pubs, etc. One family can visit another for 2 hours, maximum 10 people. Only metro residents with properties in the country can leave the metro area, and only if they have received fire or flood preparation orders from the country shire council - the notice becomes their authorisation.

 

AFL Grand Final next weekend - two Melbourne teams, Richmond and Geelong. but, it's being played in Brisbane. And you can't have your mates around to watch it on TV. You must watch it in your own home. No pubs or clubs to go to. That would be like Parramatta and Penrith playing off in Addelaide and no-one from Sydney able to go, or meet friends to watch it.

 

And none of this is any help to my son, who has been hit with just about every blow it is possible to get.

 

He is manager and part owner of a pub, in the first postcode to be locked down, so long ago I think dinosaurs still roamed around. The postcode boundary is down the middle of his street, so businesses across the road could remain open. He has staff to take care of, and a mortgage to pay. He lives alone in a unit in an area not far from the hotel, and was banned from travelling outside his postcode. Then the general stage 4 lockdown was imposed. He has only been able to partly open for 3 weeks since February.

 

 

 

He missed his sister's 40th birthday, Mother's Day, spent his own birthday alone, missed his mother's birthday, couldn't visit when she was diagnosed and operated on for cancer, missed Father's Day, and if we want to get together for my birthday this week we will have to meet in a park where our 25 km circles overlap, because he lives 37 km away. Again, can't go to a restaurant or pub for dinner.

 

His only company through this was his cat, which he had for 16 years, but a couple of weeks ago, the cat succombed to old age and had to be euthanased. No person should have to face all this alone. My wife has been worried he may do something silly. Hopefully his team Richmond will win the Grand Final to give him something positive.

 

PS. While the pub was closed, he was doing some reno and maintenance. He fell off a ladder and had to go to hospital. We couldn't visit him.

 

Labor supporters, like my brother in law, think Andrews has done a great job to get this outbreak under control. Victorians have done the great job, it's Andrews and the Labor goverment who are resposible for the fact that we had to. It could all be traced back to the hotel quarantine stuffup, and they don't have the guts to admit it. If no-one in the Government approved the use of private security, it has to have been some underling who should be sacked, and those with collective amnesia should also be sacked from Parliament.

[old man emu]

One thing that we haven't talked about, being the godless heathens that we are, is that places of worship in Melbourne have been closed. We all think about the many people who attend services on their Sabbath day (including whatever Islamist, Buddhist, Hindu and the rest call their worship day) and how those gatherings could result in the spread of COVID, but we forget those people who go to these places for private worship.

 

Apparently, lots of these people have suffered distress because they can't access the comfort of being in their place of worship.

[red750]

Grand final barbeques have been banned, but the Grand Final public holiday will go ahead on Friday, with no team parade through the streets, as the two Victorian teams which made it to the Grand Final are in Brisbane. I hope Victorians remember this when the next state election comes around. Oh, but there may be limited crowds at the Melboune Cup after more restrictions are slated to be lifted on Nov 1. Gotta get your priorities right.

 

My son.whom I wrote about above, has posted this on Facebook...

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Red, your son really has been through the ringer with this, so please extend to him that he is in our thoughts, despite the little value it may convey that random strangers are wishing him the best. And let him know that when things open up sufficiently and I can get to Melbourne, I will be making a bee line for his pub (Ascot Vale Hotel, from memory). I hope the government is providing sufficient support for him and the co-owners to survive and for the staff to get by.

 

I sort of know how he is feeling. Although now forced, this year was the only time for many years where I was planning to take a break of about 3 months (no long service leave here - but in my last perm role, I was on 6 weeks holiday a year -not to be taken all at once, of course). In fact, back in November, the plan was to finish the contract, a couple of weeks at home to catch up on a few things, out to Aus by myself for a couple of weeks to catch up on a few things and people, back home and catching up on some neglected family things while the kids were at school, and a few other things on top of that. None, except a break from work, which has not really been a break, has come to fruition. Dog died to boot, couple of injuries, and other things have not gone as planned. But, I am lucky in that I am with my family and we have a bit of space. Financially, I am staring down the barrell of a tortuous year, and staying in the UK without a massive change to what I do (which I am trying, but so is everyone else in my boat), the future is looking at significantly reduced income. I am not complaining, as it will still be survivable, but our plans are going to take a massive re-adjustment.

 

But, while flying has stopped (and even when the income comes back, it will be a lot different and less than it was), my planned trips to Aus and business I was looking to start have gone up in a puff of smoke (well, for now, anyway). While things haven't gone anywhere near as planned, I know it will either go back to normal or we will adjust to a new normal. We are lucky in that we have tech today that, while is not a perfect replacement for in-person, affords us better than the simple phone call..

 

As with everything, consequences follow actions or inactions. DA should, as leader, ultimately bear responsibility for the stuff up.. The use of a private firm is not prima facie the issue, but of course, the execution by that firm and the lack of supervision/controls/checks and balances, were.. and that, in a pandemic the responsibility for the lack of a proper control situation goes to the top. The question of what consequence to DT would also be how it was handled after that. I think DT may have dug himself a hole by having the inquiry prior to getting over the second wave and simultaneously not being open and cathartic about it.. Hindsight is great, he should have either said let's sort this out and then see why it went wrong after we get over it, or let's have an open and cathartic inquidy but only after getting guarantees from the other parties that it would not be a political witch hunt an ponts scoring exercise - but like ATSB reports - finding stuff to learn from. But, his actions/inactions should be judged accordingly, which means a full and frank investigation, which doesn't appeasr to have happened quite yet.

 

Everyone makes mistakes - if we forget the inquiry and some of the lies (or, at best ignorant comments) told about the military not being available when they were,  DA moved swiftly to contain it again. It has been tough - I do know. But, the light at the end of the tunnel is there and the rates are fantastic. So, he has shown leadership and this may mitigate the consequence - or not? Over here, it is a complete mess. They have ignored the science, which called for a circuit breaker nationwide lockdown weeks ago. They have now come up with a three tier categorisation, of which a lot of the country is on the lowest tier restrictions - the same restrictions prior to this new classification that are shown not to contain the spread, to have R at 1.3 and science is saying is inadequate. The few regions that have the highest restrictions are not consistent; I think one region, which has 485 infections/100K is allowed to have gyms open, while another region which has 200 fewer infection rate cannot have gyms open. Young people are saying, "Hang on.. we can go to a pub with only 6 friends, but mingle with as many strangers as we like." The rate of infection is hovers between 12,000 and 17,000/day and the deaths and rate are rising, one hospital in the north has no more ICU nor hospital beds.. So, despite the hard time Victoria has been suffering, it looks like, compared to other countries, you are coming out a lot better from this (also, look at Europe)...

 

I think most of us on this forum are in the medium to high risk category in terms of this virus...  While we all will be under some mental and in some cases physical strain, the alternatives have far starker consequences.

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Jerry_Atrick

[red750]

Thanks for your kind support, Jerry. It's the Union Hotel, Cnr Union Rd. and Maribyrnong Rd., Ascot VAle. Craig is his name. In the map below, you can see how close he is to Flemington Racecourse (1.5 km) and Moone Valley Racecourse (2 km). He has a TAB in the public bar, but is not allowed to open. I don't think pubs are inclued in the Nov 1 restriction lifting, they were not mentioned. In the original lockdown inFeb - March, hotels, restaurants etc. in the white area of the map had to close, those in the grey area did not.

 

  

 

According to Andrew, my son working from home, the border of our 25 km radius passes through the A in Ascot House Receptions, below Moonee Valley Racecourse on the map. Craig''s unit is about 5 km to the right of the righthand edge of this map.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Union Hotel - remember now - won't forget it... Of course, I will let the forum know when I am heading out to Aus and then, Melb... And I may take a shot of your avatar and stick on on the front of a peak cap that I will wear when I go (which is almost a contravention of my morals, as, I am sorry to say, I was a Holden man...)

 

Unf, I don't think pubs and other hospitality businesses are in the immediate easing of the lockdown. I was watching an interview with an AFR journo/editor (not sure which), where she was scathing of DA not allowing more loosening.. Although I don't agree with some of her reasoning (which was tangential to the discussion), she was right in that NSW has more cases the Vic, and they are managing with trace and track. Although, I sort of don't blame DA.. Once bitten, twice shy.. he will be wanting to minimise the risk of another stuff up...

 

It is really sad.. but I believe DA (and all state premiers) have the best interests of their constituents at heart...

[Yenn]

I don't believe all the trouble is because of Daniel Andrews. It was all caused by the federal government not doing what is required in our constitution. They stuffed up the quarantine of the Ruby Princess and that is where it all came from. Just ber it in mind at the next federal election.

[Admin]

The Ruby Princess was stuffed up by the NSW Health Department, not the Feds I believe and Covid has brought out some alarming issues with the State Gov's real control of this great Country...I have worked in both State and Federal and I believe the Feds need to get back more control of the country...which they have done recently with having to pass legislation on the Vic interference with Foreign Affairs Policies...I mean the States think they are independent countries themselves and don't give a damn about ALL Australians...power has gone to their heads.

 

[Yenn]

The federal Government is duty bound by the Australian Constitution to be in charge of quarantine. If the states have taken over that duty, then it is the fault of the Feds for letting them do that.

 We have been travelling freely between countries for years and it hs ben good, bu't there were requirements brought up many years ago for us to protect ourselves, by quarantining arriving travellers until they were proven healthy. We got so easy going that it didnt happen and now we pay the price, but it is still a federal responsibility.

[willedoo]

The States aren't provinces of one sovereign country. They are independent sovereign States who have agreed to join together in a federation of sovereign States. That's why we all have our own separate governors and Queensland's relationship with the Crown has no relationship with say, Western Australia's with the same Crown. Unless of course it's an issue under the governance of the Federation's government where the states are bound to share common ground. Technically not separate countries, but the next thing to it.

 

On the world stage there's no such thing as the country of Australia. There is no independent country called Australia.  It's the Commonwealth of Australia which has the same meaning as Federation of Australia or Confederation of Australia. In any dealings with the rest of the world, it's the Commonwealth of Australia acting on behalf of the sovereign States of Australia who have joined together to make up that Commonwealth. A bit like separate workplaces belonging to the same union.

[red750]

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, willedoo said:

It's the Commonwealth of Australia which has the same meaning as

The same meaning as the United States of Australia. But what you say is true.