COVID-19 Virus.

[Yenn]

Jerry. Buy British, buy bad. It still applies, but concerning Covid we only have to take note of the utterances of those in charge to see what a crock of the usual they spout.

I haven't heard a word from a Belgian Polly, but Britains PM and the USA president have not been lacking in stupid statements. For once the Aussies appear to have listened to the experts before opening their mouths.

I just wonder what is going to happen in the Northern hemisphere as they descend into winter. I cannot see Britain getting control of the situation, Spain, Italy and Belgium seem to be struggling and France really surprises me as they have a good health system as far as I know, but it appears to have slipped badly.

Australia is going fairly well, but there is always the fear that another wave could strike with a rapid spread. It is easy to become complacent, especially if you live  in a place where there has been no need to wear a mask at any time and there have been no cases within cooee.

[spacesailor]

If worried, hide face in that mask. LoL

spacesailor

[willedoo]

Some more vaccine test results have surfaced. The developers of Russia's Sputnik V vaccine are claiming 98.5% effectiveness based on their stage 3 trials involving  20,000 volunteers. Out of this lot, 273 contracted the virus, hence their 98.5% figure. The way I look at it, that figure would only apply if the whole 20,000 were exposed to the virus. The only true figure would be the percentage of contracted cases among those exposed to the virus. The bulk of those 20,000 people would not have come into contact with the virus.

 

Or am I missing something here. Do the trials involve all who are vaccinated being purposely exposed to the virus. I wouldn't think so. It seems like all the developers are putting out rubbery figures, but I guess as long as there's honesty regarding side effects, the comparative efficiency rates are small differences.

[octave]

 

49 minutes ago, willedoo said:

Some more vaccine test results have surfaced. The developers of Russia's Sputnik V vaccine are claiming 98.5% effectiveness based on their stage 3 trials involving  20,000 volunteers. Out of this lot, 273 contracted the virus, hence their 98.5% figure. The way I look at it, that figure would only apply if the whole 20,000 were exposed to the virus. The only true figure would be the percentage of contracted cases among those exposed to the virus. The bulk of those 20,000 people would not have come into contact with the virus.

 

Or am I missing something here. Do the trials involve all who are vaccinated being purposely exposed to the virus. I wouldn't think so. It seems like all the developers are putting out rubbery figures, but I guess as long as there's honesty regarding side effects, the comparative efficiency rates are small differences.

Just listening to a podcast about this. The Pfizer trial injected 43661 participants, half of these received a placebo.  After a time 170 participants caught covid. The information regarding who got the real vaccine and who got the placebo was released and they found that 95% of the 170 covid infections were from the group that received the placebo.   

https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/brhv7a4/coronavirus-shots-shots-shots

 

[Yenn]

 Those sort of results look OK and no doubt they are as good as they will get. They would never be allowed to ifect the whole lot with the virus which is the only way they will get a proper result. No doubt they would all still try to keep away from infection and while they would not know who had the placebo it may be possible for the scientists to asses who they thought most at risk and give them the placebo. I am not saying that would happen, but that there is no proof that it didn't.

[octave]

1 minute ago, Yenn said:

 Those sort of results look OK and no doubt they are as good as they will get. They would never be allowed to ifect the whole lot with the virus which is the only way they will get a proper result. No doubt they would all still try to keep away from infection and while they would not know who had the placebo it may be possible for the scientists to asses who they thought most at risk and give them the placebo. I am not saying that would happen, but that there is no proof that it didn't.

 

My understanding from the interview I listened too was that this was a "double blind" study, meaning neither the subjects or the researchers knew which subjects got the placebo.  Although I am slightly skeptical of the 95% figure when translated to the real world I am confident that these vaccines will  do the trick.   95% is huge compare to most vaccines, the flu vaccines is approximately 50-60% so even if this turns out to be less effective than the quoted 95% it still has should be beneficial.   In Australia we are in a great situation.  Because we had the self discipline to follow the scientific advice we don't need to be in a hurry . In Britain and the US the need for this vaccine is urgent, whereas we can wait a few months to see what happens overseas before we get vaccinated. 

[red750]

Self discipline. That's the key, Octave. Victoria has proven that with self discipline and restraint, even if enforced with harsh laws and fines, that this thing can be brought under control. We have now gone 34 days without a single case, and are still testing 7 - 10,000 daily. We know it hasn't been eliminated, that there may be some undetected cases, or carriers without symptoms, lurking out there, and with foreign arrivals starting again this week we have to be extremely vigilant. Quarantine has to be strictly enforced, and a plane load of ADF personnel havfe arrived to look after that. But I think we can be held up to the world as an example of what can be achieved with self discipline and sacrifice what others are proclaiming as "our freedom and rights". As I posted on a US forum, freedom is not much use when you are dead. I got a 'like' and a reply, "If only Americans thought that way." Restrictions and lockdown don't last forever, about 3 months, or the 100 days POTUS-elect Joe B is calling for with masks. And yet he is being cried down while thousands are dying.

 

On a more personal note, our Men's Shed opened on Thursday, with restrictions of course. Based on space and social distanceing (4 sq m per person), we are limited to 9 members per day. With the shed open 3 days a week, and 50 members, 50 into 27 won't go. Due to the facility being used for other activities, we cannot open for any extra days. I used to attend on all 3 days, I am temporarily limited to one day per week as I am a volunteer.Volunteers can attend one day per week. other members are rostered to one day per fortnight, and some more susceptable members won't return until next year. These members are in nursing homes, but have other activities there to get involved with. Other restrictions include no sharing of food, so no biscuits provided for morning tea. Disposable cups provided for tea and coffee.No newspapers to read. Sandwich toaster removed. Masks mandatory inddors and out. Screening before admittance. Inconvenient but not intolerable.

 

It is hoped that distancing may be reduced to 2 sq m in the Premier's press conference tomorrow, but with only 3 weeks before Christmas breakup, things are not likely to change. End of year barbeque is up in the air at the moment. Shed will restart mid-January.

[red750]

How could Sydney let this happen again? First there was the Ruby Princess, then there was the New Zealand tourists who flew into Sydney then on to Melbourne without being checked, and now two German tourists. Things must have changed dramatically since I was in Sydney last. Admittedly it's over 20 years since I visited Sydney airport, but I thought the international terminal was on the other side of the main runway from the domestic terminal, and you had to catch a bus between them to board a domestic fllight.It should be a simple matter to control the movement of incoming passengers. In Melbourne, the three major terminals are in the one building with an open concourse between them (ignoring T4, the old Tigerair terminal). Until the rest of the world is as Covid free as Australia, ALL incoming passengers from overseas should be herded into buses and carted of to quarantine, or not allowed in. Watch Border Patrol on the TV to see people being ushered into interview rooms while immigration check if they are going to seek work on a tourist visa. Why can't they do the same to check if they have Covid? They haven't tracked down the Germans yet. If this sets our lifting of restrictions back, or if tougher ones are reintroduced, Victorians will be rightly p*ssed of with NSW.

 

On another matter, this 4 sq m rule. 4 sq m is 2m x 2m, so sitting in the middle of a 4 sq m box, you have 1m on either side and back and front. A two sq m box is 1.4142m x 1.4142m, or almost the old 1.5m separation. It sounds like a big reduction ut really isn't. What they depict on TV is reducing the spacing by three quarters. They are confusing 4 sq m with four metres square, which is 16 sq m. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

In 2018, I flew out of Melbourne back to to the UK via Sydney, and yes, you had to get a bus to go between the domestic and international terminal, which I hae to day, is a very ordinary terminal.

 

It's not the efficacy of the vaccine that worries me.. it is the potentisl side effects.. There mat be some the develop over many years... and no testing can pick that up.. But, there hasn't been enough time to assess for any side effects or worse... and the fact the government underwrites any legal csases resulting from it makes me wonder.. I would rather not get a wad of cash if I can't enjoyt it.

[Yenn]

What causes the massive spread of the virus in USA is obvious. This morning on Australia Allover with Ian Mc Namara, he had an Aussie phone in, this bloke had a Yank wife and she could not recall knowing anyone in USA who had caught the virus, so he was saying it was ridiculous to expect air travellers to have  anti viral injections. We only need a few more like that and we will go down the same path as USA.

USA has over 4.5% of its population infected, while Australia has 0.109% infected.

[willedoo]

This coming week, the UK is set to become the second nation in the world to roll out public vaccinations. Assuming the vaccines are effective as touted, I wonder how long it will be before case numbers drop significantly. Five or six months maybe, or would it be earlier. Possibly a lot will depend on the logistics of supply and distribution.

[Old Koreelah]

22 hours ago, Yenn said:

What causes the massive spread of the virus in USA is obvious...

...she could not recall knowing anyone in USA who had caught the virus, so he was saying it was ridiculous to expect air travellers to have anti viral injections. We only need a few more like that and we will go down the same path as USA.

USA has over 4.5% of its population infected, while Australia has 0.109% infected.

China, the source of the Pandemic, did what was necessary to beat this disease and their economy has recovered.
Much of the US, Home of The Brave, Land of The Free, refused to take the medicine, allowing the disease to “go viral”. It has devastated the US economy, with more pain to come.

This might be a historic watershed moment in America’s decline.

 

 

 

[Yenn]

The NSW police have taken the blame for the German people going onto an interstate flight to melbourne. What I would like to know is what immigration and quaranteen has got to do with the NSW police?

The federal government has responsibility for quarantine and also customs and immigratiion. How do non Australians get off a plane in Sydney, go past all the usual customs and immigration checks and end up on a plane to Melbourne and then NSW accepts responsibility.

Look at the history and you will see that this is too similar to the Ruby Princess fiasco, which is where the majority of our cases came from.

[red750]

3 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

It has devastated the US economy, with more pain to come.

But Donald said everything's fine. Best year yet.

[red750]

2 hours ago, Yenn said:

How do non Australians get off a plane in Sydney, go past all the usual customs and immigration checks and end up on a plane to Melbourne and then NSW accepts responsibility.

According to a report in todays Herald-Sun, it was a naive cop on his second day in the job who accepted their claim that they had an exemption.

 

Apparently Border Force don't have authority to detain them. If that is true, what good is Border Force? It's like arming the police with water pistols.

 

I thought major airports were Federal property. I remember (many many years ago) when South Australian law required petrol stations to close at 6 pm and the only place you could get petrol after that was the airport because it was Federal property and state laws didn't apply.

[red750]

Apparently the Don has announced that his $20,000 a day lawyer, Rudy Guliani, has tested positive.

[octave]

15 minutes ago, red750 said:

Apparently the Don has announced that his $20,000 a day lawyer, Rudy Guliani, has tested positive.

 

Thoughts and prayers???????? 😷

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, red750 said:

 

I thought major airports were Federal property.

You are quite correct. State police would normally only go into action on the major airports in the event of a serious crime or incident. If someone commits a crime on Sydney Airport, the AFP General Duties cart the offender off to the local NSW police station (which happens to be in the suburb of Mascot) to be processed there. It's the same if an AFP Task Force arrests someone for an offence against Federal Law while they are in one of the states. They haul them off to a State Police facility for processing.

 

4 hours ago, Yenn said:

How do non Australians get off a plane in Sydney, go past all the usual customs and immigration checks and end up on a plane to Melbourne

The usual way to get from Sydney Airport T1 (International arrivals and departures) to the T2 & T3 Domestic terminals is by driving around the outside of the airport boundary on Airport Drive/Qantas Drive. There are airline transfer buses to do that, or taxis - Uber is not allowed to park and wait. It's 5 Kms by road and a 5 to 10 minute run. Nobody checks road traffic leaving T1. I can't figure out where the NSW police got involved.

 

2 hours ago, red750 said:

According to a report in todays Herald-Sun, it was a naive cop on his second day in the job

Crap. A fresh faced constable, two days out of the Academy wouldn't be let out of the shadow of his  training "buddy", and highly unlikely to be sent to do this type of security work. 

[Yenn]

I think the report said it was his second day at that job, not out of the academy. No matter what it is a job for the federal government, customs and immigration. Not the NSW police. Did those Germans go through immigration, if so how on earth were they allowed onto an  internal flight?

Did they go through customs, probably not and what contraband could they have brought into the country.

We seem to be living in a state where our government will not accept responsibility for its stuff up and passes the buck to the states. Why do the states allow this, or better still why do we the voters allow it?

[Jerry_Atrick]

I thought Australia was closed to all but Aussie citizens and their closest family.. Has something changed?

 

On 07/12/2020 at 5:21 AM, red750 said:

But Donald said everything's fine. Best year yet.

Well, he did lose an election, so not a total write-off of a year!

 

[Yenn]

Jerry. You believed what our PM told us. I didn't think you would fall for that.

What he really meant was Aussies if they can make enough noise, but cheap labour from the Pacific islands, sports people and politician and of course Germans who will not have to go through immigration.

[red750]

Hey Yenn, you forgot movie stars....

[Yenn]

I never look at what movie stars and royalty are doing, but yes I did miss them.

[Yenn]

Well, the expected is happening. It seems that Donald trump has signed an executive order to ensure that Americans get first shot at the vaccine and that nobody else will get it until all Americans are treated.

Funny, he had covid under control a few weeks ago, now the USA is definitely in dire needs of some means of control, as the President has ensured that as many Yanks as possible contract the virus.

For all those who think the USA is a shining beacon of all that is good, think again.

[red750]

The first English patient has already had the jab. Film of it on this morning's news. An elderly lady in a nursing home.