COVID-19 Virus.

[gareth lacey]

last time i was in USA my wife needed to go to doctors for acute stomach pain ( gastro) cost us $84 plus script ,so not to bad, i have a yearly medical with my doc not claimable on medicare cost $220, so comparible with the us

 

[Yenn]

Now the government has decreed that Australians returning home from India will not be allowed entry and if the do get in they can be jailed or fined.

We have had a ban on Australians travelling overseas for quite a while and some have been granted dispensations to travel.

I cancelled my overseas travel plans last March, considering the risks as unacceptable, both for myself and for others I came in contact with.

Those Australians travelling to India and now wanting to return, seem to be of two types, namely Aussies going overseas to earn money and Aussies of Indian descent going back to their place of birth. The latter I assume would probably have dual nationality.

Should Aussies who elect to go to another country during a pandemic be allowed free access to return home whenever it suits them, even if the risk of bringing disease into the country could be considered unacceptable?

Should those with dual nationality have the same rights to get out of their one nationality base to come home to get away from the disease?

Should someone holding dual Indian and Australian nationality have a right to become either Australian or Indian whenever they like?

Should the Australian government take responsibility for the quarantine of travellers coming to Australia? They have this as a requirement of the Australian constitution, but have not stepped up to their responsibilities so far.

Does anyone know what rights we have as Australian citizens? I don't think it is spelled out in our constitution.

[Jerry_Atrick]

There is no guarantee of human rights in the constitution, and Australia has refused to ratify (and probably has not signed up to) the various international human rights conventions and charters.

 

I am a dual citizien - Aussie and British. Aussie by birth (+ about 15 years into adulthood) and British earned through being recruited here and then serving my time (I am not married - so spousal visas don't come into it, like they can in Australia).  My motivation was not money (although I can say I have been better compensated in real terms than I would have been in Australia), but motivated by adventure and career progression. The reality is that outside of resources and energy, Australia is a small economy offering small opportunities; the UK opened up opportunities, especially for someone like me who hasn't completed tertiary education, that simply weren't on offer in Australia.

 

So, yes, I have the ability to arbitrage nationality, but is that bad? I contribute to both economies, pay taxes in both countries and have helped companies in both countries (as well as others). I am even still a member of my Aussie Rules footy team (although there has been a patch where I didn't renew). I have obligations to both countries by virtue of being a citizen, too. When I retire, I will be bringing my pension back to Australia to be spent in Australia (I hope to return sooner than that - it is about 10 years away). The government here will also be contribting to the Aussie economy as a result.. In my case, I have been a bit lucky, but I have also worked very hard and made some personal sacrifice to be able to do so.  However, I am also very proudly British, because Britain must have changed a lot since the forum members from here moved out.. It affords great opportunity, it has a culture which is open and friendly despite its reputation; it has many liberties denied of Aussies (including guranteed human rights). The class divide is no longer what it was (but there is a divide between rich and poor - as there is everywhere). The radio stations, though, suck!

 

I have obeyed the pandemic requirements and not returned to Australia as I live in Britain. I read with a little dismay at the Aussies (ex-pat and dual citizens) returning to Australia but still working for their overseas employers. Then I read that around 100K foreign nationals who were sponsored as immigrants were allowed in due to starting employment - and not returning to employment. I knew I had the opportunity to return and this would increase my chances of finding local work, but elected to play by the rules - as have many Aussies I know over here who are dual citizens or simply ex-pats.  I guess I forgot the old adage that rules are for the guidance of wise men and obeyance of fools.

 

It is natural that people will use their situation to their advantage. And why not? Since John Howard loosened the legal requirement of single nationality, people have the opportunity to acquire another nationality and retain their Australian nationality.  What irks me is that during the pandemic when Australia's borders were closed to foreigners (except those permanent residents), somehow 100k (or thereabouts) new immigrants were allowed to be sponsored in...

 

 

[spacesailor]

I should ask ???????

"Julian Paul Assange was born Julian Paul Hawkins on 3 July 1971 in Townsville, Queensland, to Christine Ann Hawkins "

Assange is an Australian editor, publisher, and activist who founded WikiLeaks.

TELL'S A LOT OF WHAT Governments think of it's citizens .

spacesailor

 

Edited May 6, 2021 by spacesailor
missing information

[spacesailor]

extract from the éther

Aboriginal passport given to Julian Assange.

 

 

"Assange's biological father John Shipton accepted the passport on his son's behalf at an event in Sydney's Darlington neighborhood, the Sydney Morning Herald reported. 

Ray Jackson, the president of the Indigenous Social Justice Association (ISJA), said that the government hasn't given Assange enough help, World News Australia reported. "

[Jerry_Atrick]

Yes.. Australia's reputation in helping its own out is  notorious.. When I was travelling, before I had moved to Britain let alone became a citizen, the advice from the Aussie foreign office (unofficial, of course) was that if I needed consular services, to go to the British Embassy and not the Aussie embassy! I would say if the US was not involved (say it was Russian secrets that were leaked), then the British probably would have been more accomodating to Assange.

[nomadpete]

Pawns in the game get sacrificed.

[facthunter]

Britains part in the Assange matter hasn't been anything to skite about. His treatment has been abominable, and nothing short of torture and denial of basic rights. Nev

[Yenn]

I agree with the comments about Julian Assange, but news of him has gone terribly quiet. The Brits treated him abominabably and the Aussie government only stood by an applauded.

Would the present ruling on Indian returnees have anything to do with how Australia treats New Zealand citizens, Is their agenda to get those Indian dual citizens who return and could get jail time to be deported and their citizenship rescinded?

[facthunter]

I haven't heard even a hint of that .  Anything's possible I suppose. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

I think it is SFM portraying himself as a leader protecting his flock...

[willedoo]

The WHO has approved the Sinopharm vaccine for emergency use.

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/china-s-sinopharm-becomes-first-non-western-vaccine-to-win-who-approval-20210508-p57q2r.html

[Yenn]

If he is protecting us, God help us. He has been useless so far and only denigrates those who have done all the protecting work.

He is just a scaled down version of Donald trump, with a bit of Modi thrown in.

Now I hear that our Aussie cricketers are goin to spend a couple of weeks in Sri lanka or Madagasker just so that they are not coming from India. What have the Sri lankan and Madagasker people done to deserve such treatment? It will certainly not look good for Australia if either of those two countries get outbreaks of Covid.

[facthunter]

The cricketers are staying in the Maldives, which relies heavily on Tourists, I'm lead to believe.. Plenty of sun and open places. I could probably put up with that myself. Nev

[willedoo]

Russia's main vaccine, Sputnik V, is still pending WHO and European Medicines Agency approval. At this stage the EU has allowed member states to unilaterally use Sputnik, but it doesn't have overall EU approval. The WHO is still receiving data from the manufacturers and are expected to finalise their assessment early next month. The UN is hoping the WHO will approve the vaccine, calling it 'one the key elements that will allow us to solve the vaccination problem'. UN staff in Russia are receiving the vaccine and the UN are planning wider use of the vaccine which would require WHO approval.

 

In other news, the small country of San Marino has had a lot of success with their vaccination programme. With a population of 34,000, most citizens have received both shots and their health ministry has said the virus is practically eliminated in the country. The Covid ward has closed down with the last patient testing negative and being discharged. 90% of their vaccines have been Sputnik V with Pfizer making up the remainder. Not a bad result considering they are landlocked by Italy which is one of the worst hit countries.

[Yenn]

We keep hearing about how bad the situation is in India, but the official statistics show that the USA is not far behind in deaths and cases, when you take the differences in population into account. In total the USA has had nearly ten times the deaths per million population than India.

[octave]

4 minutes ago, Yenn said:

We keep hearing about how bad the situation is in India, but the official statistics show that the USA is not far behind in deaths and cases, when you take the differences in population into account. In total the USA has had nearly ten times the deaths per million population than India.

The death rate is just one measure.  In the US the death rate is falling rapidly in India it is not. It is not just the total number but the trajectory.  In India many deaths are not even being recorded.   India Covid: Dozens of bodies wash up on banks of Ganges river      

 

I would rather have covid in the US than in India where there is a shortage of oxygen and people are dying without medical aid.

[Jerry_Atrick]

A news story came over the Bloomberg terminal (can't copy it for copyright reasons) that there was an exedous from Wall street back to Aus by ex pats wanting to flee COVID as well as rethink their work-life balance..

 

Brain drain no more...

 

 

[facthunter]

Stress & strain affects the Brain.. Quality of life is not having everything the easy way. Those who put a price on everything know the VALUE of nothing. If you've got hot running water you are better off than 98% of the planet. Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

You are so right, Nev.. I personally have had some very rough times while under stress and I noticed something very intereting in India when I was workign there for two weeks. There are obviously slum areas, noticeable be the sea of blue tarpaulins which provides shelter. I would observe them and they had little material possessions and definitely they weren't eating gourmet food.. But most actually looked content.. their stress would be health care and next meal - but many would eat.

 

At the office, our software vendor's staff, who enjoyed a reasonably good quality of material life were always under stress and had he most morose looks on their faces all the time.. Long hours, not seeing their family etc (it wasn't just us as a client that was pushing this by the way; in fact, I was trying to get them to admit it would take longer to do what we were asking them to do).

 

The difference was stark..

 

[onetrack]

Back to COVID-19 - an interesting article below about a substantial resurgence of the virus in the Seychelles, despite 71% of the population having had one dose of the vaccine, and 62% have been fully vaccinated. It appears new and more contagious strains of the virus from South Africa and India are bypassing the vaccinations.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-20/covid-surging-in-seychelles-worlds-most-vaccinated-country-why/100151306

[Jerry_Atrick]

From the article:

"The UK variant B.1.1.7, which is more contagious than the original strain, became the dominant variant in the United States. But the US still achieved a dramatic "

 

At least the UK is gearing up its export markets after Brexit 😉

 

Seriously, the UK on Monday relaxed its lockdown restrictons - travel is allowed and indoor dining is also allowed (with requisite social distancing and deep cleaning). The new Indian variant has a grip on Bolton and other parts of the North. Personally, I am not looking at utilising these new found freedoms anytime, soon. However, this article does give weight to some of the rationale behind the decision to relaxing lockdown: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57150871

 

As it reads, no one is really certain what will happen and what strains will develop.

[red750]

Watch this film made in 1956, in particular, the last 40 seconds.

 

[Yenn]

Does that really come from 1956 or is it a modern recording made to look old. It certainly sounds like one of the well known TV presenters from that time.

[pmccarthy]

Its a fake, but amusing. I have seen a couple similar.