COVID-19 Virus.

[onetrack]

You can't blame the gamblers entirely - a gambling addiction is a terrible thing. But the hotels and venues who pursue gamblers, and who turn a blind eye to gambling problems are the major driver behind Australias massive gambling problem. And the Govt's, both State and Federal, reap hundreds of millions from gambling taxes, so they have a vested interest in not reducing it or even stopping it.

 

The bottom line is, the social destruction created by chronic gambling costs a lot more overall, than any business or Govt gains or profits or benefits from it. We've just recently seen revealed, the way criminal gangs utilise the gambling meccas for laundering their ill-gotten gains.

Theft and fraud are so often indulged in, to support gambling addicts - they lose their houses, and families are displaced, children neglected, and even domestic squabbles and violence are often tied into excessive gambling expenditure.

 

I've come across gambling addiction numerous times in my lifetime. An auntie married a problem gambler, and I only just found out his history, even though she married him in 1937, and divorced him around the start of WW2. She never spoke of him, and it's taken me decades to finally find out after the death of her daughter, what actually went on.

I was given contact with the son of her son, that she handed over to the problem gambler father, and the grandson told me bluntly, "the instant he got a few dollars, he had to blow it on gambling. Dad spent a childhood in poverty as a result"

 

I knew another earthmoving contractor who employed a grader driver in the late 1970's and early 1980's, who spent 2 to 3 weeks at a time away from home, operating in rural areas.

He was getting paid very good money, up to $500 a week at that time.

But he'd go home at the end of each work period, give $200 for each weeks earnings to his long suffering wife, and take the remainder of the money, usually a $1000 or more, and go and blow it all on the neddies.

 

W.A. doesn't have pokies, the State Govt and 95% of West Australians don't want them, and it's one of the reasons I like living in W.A.

I can recall going through S.A. for an extended period whilst working, and sensing a grimness and depth of gloom, and an abiding sense of overall struggle, amongst the S.A. population, that is not evident in W.A. - and I believe pokies are responsible in a large part for that.

[Old Koreelah]

Despite having only one three-hundredths of the earth’s people, Australia has a large proportion of the world’s gambling machines.

I haven’t been into our local RSL in years. Despite regular expensive renovations, it’s a depressing place to walk into. Perhaps pokies create their own depressing force field.

[red750]

Over 100 cases in NSW today, and some people are still saying lockdown is unnecessary. Apparently a removalist travelled from Sydney through Victoria to South Australia while infectious. The b*stard should be shot. Victoria has had enough lockdowns. Gladys is as weak as .... and the state borders should have been slammed shut a couple of weeks ago. We will be like UK and India.

[Dax]

We sure have brilliant pollies., doubt there's a logical working brain between the lot of them.

[willedoo]

Gold Standard Gladys seems to be losing the shine.

[Dax]

Even now when things are getting bad, not one word of moving quarantine out of cities so everyone can get back to a reasonable life. Just more of he same insanity and keeping quarantine of cites will never end outbreaks, it will get worse and worse. Vaccinations won't stop it, because the mutations are constantly adapting to conditions and most probably the vaccines.

 

There's a strong chance this virus is an engineered one, devised to see how it would cope with vaccines and changing environments and some how it escaped from the Wuhan laboratory. There is growing evidence even the chinese vaccines aren't working, they sent lots of vaccines to Asia and PNG and they have failed to protect people, as they are dying. There's also more and more cases around the world where fully vaccinated people are catching it, getting very sick and some dying and now its starting to effect the young badly.

 

If that's the case, we nay have an unwinnable war on our hands which is being fuelled by the fools in power. They are helping it adapt and mutate, by allowing it into communities using CBD quarantine. Hotels aren't designed to contain viruses, they are designed for healthy people and with the Delta mutation, it may be seeping out of these inadequate quarantine facilities via window and door gaps, untrained security, many don't even speak good english and most are useless immigrants who couldn't give a stuff about anyone but their deluded ideologies.

[octave]

6 minutes ago, Dax said:

Even now when things are getting bad, not one word of moving quarantine out of cities so everyone can get back to a reasonable life. Just more of he same insanity and keeping quarantine of cites will never end outbreaks, it will get worse and worse. Vaccinations won't stop it, because the mutations are constantly adapting to conditions and most probably the vaccines.

 

Whilst I generally agree there are always complications for example flight crews.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Dax said:

There's a strong chance this virus is an engineered one,

 

Whilst not impossible I believe the scientific evidence does not support this idea.     If genetically engineered then by who?  No country has come out of this unscathed.

[pmccarthy]

I believe there is no conspiracy theory. Rather, the lab was developing more virulent strains to test against vaccines for control in case they emerged in the wild. This project was supported by other countries including the US. As usual in real life, something escaped despite protocols.

[octave]

4 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

I believe there is no conspiracy theory. Rather, the lab was developing more virulent strains to test against vaccines for control in case they emerged in the wild. This project was supported by other countries including the US. As usual in real life, something escaped despite protocols.

 

I think this is a reasonable idea although new diseases come along naturally quite often. On the balance of probabilities i would think the natural crossing from other species at a wet market is probably more likely but all options should be investigated. 

[spacesailor]

NO MORE WORRIES !,.

' Assisted dieing ' reform is coming !.

Your family, that Need hour old house AND your money to pay those bills they keep getting,

They will only have to pay two doctors, ( perhaps last year students, to pay their Hecs bill) .

Then the Olds, Wil sercome to the younger generations will ,.

IT WAS NORMAL IN AUSTRIA, BEFOR THE GERMAN USED IT.

spacesailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

1 hour ago, Dax said:

…There's a strong chance this virus is an engineered one, devised to see how it would cope with vaccines and changing environments and some how it escaped from the Wuhan laboratory…

Dax there are some pretty grotty people pushing conspiracy theories like this.

The only foreign scientist, an Australian, working in that Wuhan lab is worth listening to, but because her expert testimony doesn’t fit the conspiracy theories, she has been harassed and threatened by Right Wing grubs.

 

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/australian-scientist-the-sole-foreign-researcher-at-the-wuhan-lab-speaks-out-20210628-p584sv.html

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/australian-scientist-at-wuhan-lab-never-had-covid-19-xd73rrnk3

[Dax]

4 hours ago, octave said:

Whilst I generally agree there are always complications for example flight crews.

Flight crews going to be in Aus less than 8 hours, have to stay within the airport facilities. If their flight out is over 8 hours, they are taken to quarantine facilities until their flight. So it would make no difference whatsoever and stop any spread if a flight crew was infected as they would be outside urban areas.

 

Moving quarantine out of cities, is a win win for everyone. Keeping them in cities, is a guarantee of more escapes and at one time, we had quarantine facilities in every state, in isolated places and that worked.

 

4 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

I believe there is no conspiracy theory.

Didn't say it was a conspiracy, just an virus they were experimenting with and engineering in Wuhan for postie reasons they got out of the wild and it escaped. They know chinese scientists had taken viruses out of bat caves and there have been a number of escaped viruses from supposed safe labs, Sars is one.

 

3 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

Dax there are some pretty grotty people pushing conspiracy theories like this.

The only foreign scientist, an Australian, working in that Wuhan lab is worth listening to, but because her expert testimony doesn’t fit the conspiracy theories, she has been harassed and threatened by Right Wing grubs.

I've read all the reports, as for grotty conspiracy theories, maybe you need to learn to read what's posted, instead of making up your own conspiracy theories the opposite of what is posted and labelling others.

 

Anderson left the lab in November 2019 and she has not ruled out that the virus escaped from the lab. Of course it could have come from the wet market in Wuhan, but there are thousands of wet markets throughout china and they all self the same stuff, so why Wuhan where their virus lab is and the chinese have refused an international investigation That doesn't mean they are trying to cover up a deliberate release, but they don't want to lose face in the world so will deny it escaped, if it did. If it came out of the wet market, why are they refusing an international investigation which would help future controls of any other viruses.

 

Denial of reality is the biggest problem the human world faces, the vast majority live it their entire lives and denying all the possibilities is fraught with danger.

 

 

 

[octave]

21 hours ago, Dax said:

Flight crews going to be in Aus less than 8 hours, have to stay within the airport facilities. If their flight out is over 8 hours, they are taken to quarantine facilities until their flight. So it would make no difference whatsoever and stop any spread if a flight crew was infected as they would be outside urban areas.

 

Moving quarantine out of cities, is a win win for everyone. Keeping them in cities, is a guarantee of more escapes and at one time, we had quarantine facilities in every state, in isolated places and that worked.

 

I think there have been several virus  escapes from aircrew and the people driving them.  I don't really disagree with what you are saying but often these things can be more complicated than might appear form the outside.    Ideally quarantine should try to avoid secondary means of transport form the airport to the facility.

 

edited...mod

[Dax]

14 minutes ago, octave said:

Wrong link this  one is correct 

It doesn't rule out an engineered escaped virus and china refuses to release anything to do with it, including the medical or hospital records of the people who got sick in the lab.

 

What they are worried about is they can find no relationship to other covid viruses found naturally in bats. There are a lot of coincidences which need to be investigated ans so fare no one has ruled out an engineered escaped virus from the Wuhan lab.

 

So no one knows and denying all the possibilities and claiming they are conspiracy theories, goes against what the science says. It could be natural or engineered, they just don't know.

 

Personally I leave every door open until they can verify it's origins properly and that could be many years down the track.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Getting back to the problem of CBD quarantine, as usual, if there's a will, there's a way.

 

I can understand the governments' initial reluctance to build special purpose quarantine facilities - although the forecasts were it would be a problem for a year or so, the cost of building such special purpose facilities could have been perceived as greatly outweighing the benefits, especially if the virus could be contained - which except for Melbourne's initial hiccups and now Sydney, on the whole, it has been a remarkably good job. The states' handling does contrast to the federal government's handling btw.

 

With hindsight, it may have been more appropriate to take a harder line approach with quarantine (remember the housing commission block towers in Melbourne)... For example, any of the RAAF bare bases could have been converted relatively quickly to quarantine centres, although one would have to question capacity... But landing at them could be do-able by the big jets, and then after quarantine, departures to the main cities could be provided. Without further analysis, hard to say if this would have worked, but it could have been an option. Maybe there's one or two retired bases that could have been re-instated - but I would imagine, as is the case (or was the case) at RAAF Laverton - quite some work would have had to have been done to retore the runway and buildings, if they haven't been turned into housing estates.  It was an option. I am sure there are other options, too. .For example, how many large spare hangar buildings are at Avalon airport that could be converted? Are there any regional airports able to take larger jets with vacant industrial estates that could easily be converted? I am not saying this is the best option - I am sure there are others, too, like bussing the arrivals from the majors to a nearby purpose built or converted facility - where heck, maybe they will have a room and some exercise space..

 

I am meeting an Aussie bank on Friday and the recruitment agent who introduced us unequivocal of his disdain for the government's latest handling of quarantine and caps, and made his displeasure of the federal and NSW state LNP quite obvious. At the risk of sounding a LNP supporter, I tried to inject some impartiality into the conversation, but there is, at least from this bloke ho has never in our discussions come across as particularly politically active, quite a resentment building up in the politics..

 

Now the question turns to whether or not they are needed today? And the answer, at the moment, lays in the roll out of the vaccine and the policy of zero based community transmissions. While there is no doubt in my mind that this is the right policy for a largely unvaccinated population, what happens when vaccination levels are near 100% of those who will get it? Will it then allow a resumption of more or less normality, removal of caps, and importantly, a removal of the quarantine requirement? Or will there still be a policy of relentlessly aiming for zero community transmitted cases of COVID?

 

Then, what happens if there are new strains that existing vaccines are less effective against? What is the probability of this happening? Do we keep bare bones quarantine centres ticking over ready for them to spring into action on a virtually nil probability or a 50% probability?

 

I am not sure what the answer is going forward.. yes we need to hold to account the pollies for their negligent stuff ups, but looking forward, do we need to build purpose built facilities at this stage?

[Jerry_Atrick]

Hmmm.. Maybe my faith in state leaders isn't always warranted:

 

[Dax]

31 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Maybe there's one or two retired bases that could have been re-instated

There's a number if landing strips in central Aus more than capable of taking large aircraft. The best one is Woomera, a huge airstrip and ton with all facilities. If course they'd  have to fix it up, but that could be done in a couple of weeks and then there the one not far from the Alice, tenant creek, Broome. There's also barrier reef islands with resorts not being used, perfect places for quarantine. That would give them time to build dedicated quarantine facilities and the infrastructure to support them.

 

Of course we need permanent quarantine facilities, this is the third deadly virus this century and we need to be ready for the next and they won't stop coming until we change our approach to the future. That's not my opinion, but from what I've read about it and scientists involved with viruses. What I write comes from the research I do, not my ideas. It's to late for ideas or conspiracy theories, it's developing into a huge mess which hopefully they can get under control. But if they keep going in the direction they are, then we are doomed.

 

As your video shows, our governments are beholden to the corporate world, not the people or future. Bet the hotels association advised CBD quarantine was essential for their business viability, as have other corporations and how much should the next donation be.

[Jerry_Atrick]

@Dax - excellent idea with respect to the resorts... Repurposing existing facilities that are in good states of repair is not hard. Here's an example of a hospital being "built" from a repurposed site in 9 days.. in Britain, FFS! I am sure Aussies could do one better..  You could also purpose different areas - inward quarantine where the lurgy is suspected and then outward quarantine where people who are free of it are separated while waiting to choof off to their onward destination, minimising cross-infection from those who are arriving.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52125059

 

Can be done, and all the businesses like hotels, etc, can pretty well start up again after an initial lag. Also, quarantine wouldn't have to be so taxing...

 

There would be logistical issues - such as medical care, staff rotations, etc., but these can be overcome. Again being able to isolate until the all clear and easily onward travel to final destination is important.. need to keep the cost to a minimum...

[Marty_d]

5 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Getting back to the problem of CBD quarantine, as usual, if there's a will, there's a way.

 

I can understand the governments' initial reluctance to build special purpose quarantine facilities - although the forecasts were it would be a problem for a year or so, the cost of building such special purpose facilities could have been perceived as greatly outweighing the benefits, especially if the virus could be contained - which except for Melbourne's initial hiccups and now Sydney, on the whole, it has been a remarkably good job. The states' handling does contrast to the federal government's handling btw.

 

With hindsight, it may have been more appropriate to take a harder line approach with quarantine (remember the housing commission block towers in Melbourne)... For example, any of the RAAF bare bases could have been converted relatively quickly to quarantine centres, although one would have to question capacity... But landing at them could be do-able by the big jets, and then after quarantine, departures to the main cities could be provided. Without further analysis, hard to say if this would have worked, but it could have been an option. Maybe there's one or two retired bases that could have been re-instated - but I would imagine, as is the case (or was the case) at RAAF Laverton - quite some work would have had to have been done to retore the runway and buildings, if they haven't been turned into housing estates.  It was an option. I am sure there are other options, too. .For example, how many large spare hangar buildings are at Avalon airport that could be converted? Are there any regional airports able to take larger jets with vacant industrial estates that could easily be converted? I am not saying this is the best option - I am sure there are others, too, like bussing the arrivals from the majors to a nearby purpose built or converted facility - where heck, maybe they will have a room and some exercise space..

 

I am meeting an Aussie bank on Friday and the recruitment agent who introduced us unequivocal of his disdain for the government's latest handling of quarantine and caps, and made his displeasure of the federal and NSW state LNP quite obvious. At the risk of sounding a LNP supporter, I tried to inject some impartiality into the conversation, but there is, at least from this bloke ho has never in our discussions come across as particularly politically active, quite a resentment building up in the politics..

 

Now the question turns to whether or not they are needed today? And the answer, at the moment, lays in the roll out of the vaccine and the policy of zero based community transmissions. While there is no doubt in my mind that this is the right policy for a largely unvaccinated population, what happens when vaccination levels are near 100% of those who will get it? Will it then allow a resumption of more or less normality, removal of caps, and importantly, a removal of the quarantine requirement? Or will there still be a policy of relentlessly aiming for zero community transmitted cases of COVID?

 

Then, what happens if there are new strains that existing vaccines are less effective against? What is the probability of this happening? Do we keep bare bones quarantine centres ticking over ready for them to spring into action on a virtually nil probability or a 50% probability?

 

I am not sure what the answer is going forward.. yes we need to hold to account the pollies for their negligent stuff ups, but looking forward, do we need to build purpose built facilities at this stage?

Converted shipping containers. Mass produced, movable, complete with solar power, battery, smart inverter so they can be plugged together to form a network, plumbing, a/c, front deck, perhaps with specialized bathroom/toilet container to attach.

Set them up in regional areas near long airstrips and close to good hospitals.

If/when they are no longer required, move them to new locations for affordable housing, which we also need.

I'm sure the LNP will have another "stop the boats" hissy fit sometime in the future too so they can eventually put them on a ship and send them to whatever hellhole they bung refugees in next time.

 

[spacesailor]

If you use '  Shipping containers '  ,you will displace all those people making ' woodframed ' transportable homes !.

Not good for my Extended family, with a whole bunch of them in that One industry .

Their, grandfather, father,  brothers,sisters, all doing, driving, woodwork, upholstery plumbing, electrical, and everything that needs doing.

Thats what happens when rorted by big business.

They start theiir own, & it,s going very good.

spacesailor

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by spacesailor
More added

[onetrack]

There are quite a number of Australian Defence Dept installations that are grossly under-utilised. But the Defence Dept strongly rebuffs any attempt to use those facilities for quarantine, obviously claiming they need them ready for any immediate requirements for defence purposes. However, this is little different to their military air restriction areas demands.

 

Defence is not going to have to initiate a war overnight, and the only other demand would be a natural disaster, which may or may not, be an overnight event. Therefore those facilities should be used, even if only partly used, as quarantine facilities.

 

At Curtin Airbase, accommodation is already set up for detaining refugees - as well as at other places in Australia. The facilities at Curtin are very basic, being mining "dongas" - but this is no different to what mine workers have to endure. I see no reason why these detention centres can't become quarantine centres, as the unexpected refugee arrival problem is minimal today, anyway.

[octave]

I was going to mention RAAF Curtin.    (warning - nostalgic thread drift alert)  I have actually been there back in 1988.   During my time as a RAAF musician we played at the opening ceremony, I seem to recall it was opened by Hawke (although it was established much earlier than that)    We flew from from RAAF Richmond all the way across the country,   We landed, scrambled around in the cargo hold to get our kit out, changed on the plane into our ceremonial uniforms. played for 30 minutes, churned out the national anthem.   This was followed by a can of beer and some poor quality sandwiches then back  on the plane across the country back to Richmond.  All at the expense of the Taxpayer of course. 

 

I believe Curtin was used for immigration detention in 2011.

 

My son who lives in NZ recently arrived home from 3 months in the US (where he received 2 doses of Pfizer)   Part of him being able to travel overseas involved pre booking the hotel quarantine which was $3000.   When he arrived back there were no quarantine places available in Auckland so at the government's expense he was flown in a half empty plane (which only contained passengers bound for quarantine) to Christchurch (passing over is home in Wellington) After 2 weeks quarantine the government was responsible to transport him back to the point of entry, Auckland then he had to arrange his own flight back to Wellington, in the direction he had just come from.

 

Just down the road from me is Avalon airport, this site was considered for a quarantine facility in the vast empty paddocks adjoining the airport. This to me seemed like a logical choice. I think one of the big deal breakers was the lack of nearby sewage facilities and the cost to create them.

[red750]

So much for Sydney's maginificent lockdown. More holes than a wire netting fence. Those bluddy removalists have triggered 7 positive cases at the units in Maribyrnong, one of whom went to an AFL football game. Anyone leaving home should consider themselves positive until proven otherwise. Not an easy way to exist, I'll grant you, but it's the only way we will get a handle on this thing.

 

More than 120 residents and 11 visitors of the Ariele Apartments are now in quarantine for 14 days.

[willedoo]

6 hours ago, onetrack said:

The facilities at Curtin are very basic, being mining "dongas" - but this is no different to what mine workers have to endure.

onetrack, I'm sure your use of the word 'endure' is a tongue in cheek, figure of speech. I used to dream about the sort of conditions mine workers have to endure. Compared to what were our poxy camps, that is. I remember once staying a night at a workover rig and couldn't believe the luxury; it was like staying in a motel. But it's amazing how many thumb suckers work in those fields and still complain about conditions that others would kill for.

[red750]

These people who come in from a red zone then flit around like a bee going from flower to flower should be named, shamed and locked up. Sure, if youhave been away for a week or more, you need to buy milk, bread and other essentials to live, but that's what home delivery services are for. Why one would need to visit a Bunnings under these circumstances beats me. I rarely go there at the best of times.

 

We have to get used to the fact that if you are away from home for any period, you must isolate, and that means completely for at least 10 days, and be retested. Sure, it's an inconvenience and annoyance, but until this virus is reigned in and under control, it's something we are going to have to live with. The price for going away.