Planet of the Humans

[pmccarthy]

If you don't watch another movie this year, please watch this one.

 

[nomadpete]

OK Peter, thanks for the link,

 

There's no big surprises in it,

 

What do you suggest?

Edited April 26, 2020 by Guest

[pmccarthy]

The real problem is and always has been overpopulation. Educate women. And stop trying to save everyone, there are too many humans already.

[nomadpete]

A good start,

Sadly, but flawed, as it assumes that all women can control their childbearing.

In many places, women have little control over their reproductive potential. In most societies everyone expects to 'get a job, get married and raise a family'.

 

Unless the culture that glorifies breeding gets resolved, nothing will change our collective trajectory.

 

A good start is mass education from early age, to make all humans aware of the undesirability of rampant breeding. Before puberty hormones take control.

 

Otherwise we are leaving it to mother nature to deal us another 'mummy slap' even bigger than the present (Covid) one.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Guest

[skippydiesel]

A good start,

Sadly, but flawed, as it assumes that all women can control their childbearing.

In many places, women have little control over their reproductive potential. In most societies everyone expects to 'get a job, get married and raise a family'.

 

Unless the culture that glorifies breeding gets resolved, nothing will change our collective trajectory.

 

A good start is mass education from early age, to make all humans aware of the undesirability of rampant breeding. Before puberty hormones take control.

 

Otherwise we are leaving it to mother nature to deal us another 'mummy slap' even bigger than the present (Covid) one.

 

Your intent is admirable but fails to accept/understand how humans have actually responded to education, reliable food supply and a reasonable health service.

Every nation, even those burdened by religious extremism (check out Italy, Ireland) have been shown to have a declining birthrate, when women are educated, they and their children are well fed and are able to access good medical facilities.

The reality is low levels of education, high infant mortality due to poor nutrition and lack of access to health facilities is the driver for large families, enshrine in a number of religions doctrine.

The western countries have the means to reduce the worlds birthrate by sharing the sorceress that are concentrated in the first world - they just wont do it!

[nomadpete]

I agree that basic selfishness is an impediment to 'sharing the resources' with the great majority of emoverished populace. (I'm assuming you mean that we educated slow breeders couldn't be bothered educating the fast breeders').

However, I'd argue that many have tried unsuccessfully to improve education, across the needy places.

Generally, humans fight hard to protect their right to have sex, without any regard or plan for what to do with the children. This attitude seems to carry over all boundaries of wealth and religion. In our own 'enlightened' society, it is still relatively uncommon for a woman to take concontrol of her reproductive future(ie: tubal ligation). It often hits front page news!

Surprisingly (to feminists, at least), we have multitudes of males who have quietly taken the responsible action of vasectomy. It's a start, but still only a small step in the right direction.

I still think we collectively need to have a culture shift. Culture is a big ship to turn around. Especially when it is being steered by basic instincts.

Edited May 6, 2020 by nomadpete

[skippydiesel]

One man can potentially inseminate many women but it is women who must bear , deliver, lactate/feed and raise children - they "invest" far more than any man and it is they that must be given the power /incentive to say when enough is enough!.

Keep women in ignorance, brain wash them with religious mumbo- jumbo, have their children sicken/die in infancy and they will submit to being incubators pumping out child after child.

Educate them, feed them, look after their children and give them the right, knowledge & means to control their own bodies (usually against the prevailing religious doctrine) and they will take their fecundity into their own hands - proven time & time again.

It is mainly male dominated movements who do not wish women to be so emancipated (check out the Taliban - Catholics - Wahhabists - Anglicans - Ultra Orthodox Jews - Radical Islam - cults of all sorts ).

Men must understand that having sex is not a right - it can only be with the permission of women AND having sex need not have conception as an outcome.

[spacesailor]

The Right to have sex, has given the Chinese Doll manufacturers a huge boost,

$3,000 a sex-doll is the cheapest sex you can Buy !.

Tiger Woods should have bought a dozen at least.

Look at how much he would have saved. LoL

spacesailor

[nomadpete]

Skippy, I think we are mostly on the same page.

Except perhaps that I believe that I don't just blame men for the problem.

We consider the 'west' to be well educated. Nevertheless our culture collectively enshrines a women's right to bear as many children as she wants. To the point that many women judge childless women as failures or somehow defective. I think that this culture is illogical in an overpopulated world.

Our government even pays people to breed. Way back when we had our first child, I was shocked to learn that the government was giving us a baby bonus. In fact I felt a bit insulted as it implied that I wasn't capable of being a responsible father. I still think that people should not be assisted to have families. It is this cultural glorification of careless overpopulation that I object to.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Guest

[spacesailor]

IF this and all governments really wanted to Slow the birth rate.

Why not make prostitution legal And affordable sperm depostories.

It should also help with reducing our rape problems.

OR is this too much for our sensitive leaders.

spacesailor

[nomadpete]

The Political will to control population growth seems to be lacking. Due to them following the fiscal myth of eternal population growth bringing eternal revenue growth. I've yet to see proof that the revenue ever catches up to the cost of eternally rising infrastructure costs that must be provided for the growing population.

Edited May 8, 2020 by nomadpete

[nomadpete]

A nursing friend recently commented that all people should undergo reversible compulsory sterilization.

When they decide to bring children into the world, they must pass a test to prove they can be trusted to feed, clothe, educate and guide children, in a responsible manner, before they are allowed the reversal.

Sounds a bit harsh, but we all accept that we must pass a competency test for just about any other activities that we want to do.

[spacesailor]

IT IS very hard to comply with, everchanging bureaucratic rules AND whims of whoever sits in that seat of power,

Afterall its only a few drops of sperm that NEEDS a home.

spacesailor

[octave]

The Political will to control population growth seems to be lacking.

 

I would imagine that many folks would kick up about the government overstepping the mark and becoming a police state. I mean given that many people think being told to stay home or download an app is akin to facism I suspect that making laws regarding offspring would not go down well.

[skippydiesel]

Skippy, I think we are mostly on the same page.

Except perhaps that I believe that I don't just blame men for the problem.

We consider the 'west' to be well educated. Nevertheless our culture collectively enshrines a women's right to bear as many children as she wants. To the point that many women judge childless women as failures or somehow defective. I think that this culture is illogical in an overpopulated world.

Our government even pays people to breed. Way back when we had our first child, I was shocked to learn that the government was giving us a baby bonus. In fact I felt a bit insulted as it implied that I wasn't capable of being a responsible father. I still think that people should not be assisted to have families. It is this cultural glorification of careless overpopulation that I object to.

 

I blame those who make the laws, fail to elevate the impoverished & ignorant - if that is men, so be it!

 

The Chinese tried to force reduced fecundity - didn't work.

 

As I have pointed out the surest/proven way to reduce the birch rate is ... (see previous comments).

 

You may not be aware of that Australia is not a self reproducing postulation - without immigration our population would be on a fairly steep decline.

[nomadpete]

Octave,

Firstly, the fact is that our own society accepts the government control (licencing, etc) of everything from recreational fishing to driving, building, and 'working with vulnerable people', and even walking on the airside of a fence at the local airfield. And lots more. Why would one more control (that would improve everyone's quality of life) suddenly turn us into a 'police state'?

 

I'd argue that having lived at various times in the whole spectrum of social demographic areas, I've seen a lot of evidence showing that society would benefit from some level of compulsory education and demonstrated ability to actually raise children to become functional contributors to society. As Skippy says, education is the best solution. But this area is often hijacked by 'interest groups'. I acknowledge the problems that the CCP had with their one child policy. I didn't propose that.

 

I mightn't go all the way to eugenics. Although we happily apply it very beneficially to animal husbandry.

Edited May 8, 2020 by nomadpete

[nomadpete]

And, I'm pretty sure that if you ignore our migration, Australia would sit at approximately zero population growth (ZPG). Not in decline at all. Shouldn't be a disaster!

 

Constant growth is not a rational course for a dry continent (mostly furnished with poor soils) such as ours.

 

Not only are we a dry continent wracked by drought that threatens our food security, but we are a land that allows foreign interests to buy up our sparse water rights of our biggest river system.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Guest

[skippydiesel]

And, I'm pretty sure that if you ignore our migration, Australia would sit at approximately zero population growth (ZPG). Not in decline at all. Shouldn't be a disaster!

 

Not so - our reproduction was/is below replacement

 

Constant growth is not a rational course for a dry continent (mostly furnished with poor soils) such as ours.

 

I agree whole hardheartedly - unfortunately the World is besotted with the concept of growth as the only economic model

 

Not only are we a dry continent wracked by drought that threatens our food security, but we are a land that allows foreign interests to buy up our sparse water rights of our biggest river system.

 

Partially agree - in fact almost from day one, of European occupation of this land , large swathes have been owned/held by overseas (usually absent) interest's. So nothing new in that. You do not mention our Governments through time to the present but they have almost all been wedded to minimal investment, choosing the mine and the farm as the easy options.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Guest

[octave]

the fertility rate in Australia is 1.76 births per woman (2107)

 

We know alcohols cost on society (although i quite like it) in terms of health, accidents, crime and violence. The government could issue a licence in order for a person to consume alcohol.

 

I suspect the government would like to enact many laws that may make great sense but in the end it does come down to the level of acceptance from the people. Would a government who had such a policy be re elected.

[spacesailor]

Whether a government gets thrown out After enacting a law. Is irrelevant.

The law Is on the books and will be OBAYED .

spacesailor

[octave]

Whether a government gets thrown out After enacting a law. Is irrelevant.

The law Is on the books and will be OBAYED .

spacesailor

 

That assumes that politicians want to be in government to enact laws but the first rule of politics is self preservation. Most politicians don't die in a ditch for a principle.

[spacesailor]

Like Whitlam.

spacesailor

[skippydiesel]

the fertility rate in Australia is 1.76 births per woman (2107)

 

We know alcohols cost on society (although i quite like it) in terms of health, accidents, crime and violence. The government could issue a licence in order for a person to consume alcohol.

 

I suspect the government would like to enact many laws that may make great sense but in the end it does come down to the level of acceptance from the people. Would a government who had such a policy be re elected.

 

Just because I can be pedantic (no surprise) FERTILITY is the potential to have young (what a female is born with) - FECUNDITY is the action (what a female does with her potential in this area).

There is absolutist no evidence that Australian women have reduced fertility. So the correct expression would be the fecundity of Australian women is 1.76 - which, as I have pointed out, is well below replacement.

You wnt to reduce/ hold static Australia's population? - slow /stop migration. Want to increase ? - open the boarders.

Legislating for birthrate is not going to do a damn thing.

[skippydiesel]

Whether a government gets thrown out After enacting a law. Is irrelevant.

The law Is on the books and will be OBAYED .

spacesailor

 

You jest!!!!

[octave]

ust because I can be pedantic (no surprise) FERTILITY is the potential to have young (what a female is born with) - FECUNDITY is the action (what a female does with her potential in this area).

 

To be even more pedantic. The term fertility rate has more than one meaning

 

Fertility Rate: Definition & Calculation - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

 

What Is a Fertility Rate?

The word 'fertility' can mean many things depending on the situation. Those trying for a family are interested in their chances of conceiving, and those in sociology may be interested for statistics. When we talk about fertility rate, we mean the number of live births in women over a specific length of time. Fertility rate is generally expressed as the number of births per 1,000 women aged 15 to 44 in a calendar year. It can be easily be confused with total fertility rate, which calculates how many children a hypothetical woman would have assuming she lives until 44 and has the same fertility rate in the future as women in the population currently have.

To help with the confusion, think of it this way: The two rates use the same data, but report very different numbers. For instance, in the United States, the total fertility rate is approximately 1.9, while the fertility rate is 62.5. Quite a difference! Let's look at how to calculate fertility rate.

Calculating Fertility Rate

Figuring out fertility rates may seem daunting but it really isn't. Let's look at some numbers to help clear things up. In 2010, there were 75,000 live births for a population of 1.25 million women between the ages of 15 and 44. What is the fertility rate for this year? To figure this out, we take 75,000 births divided by 1,250,000 women - which comes out to 0.06 births per woman. Then we multiply 0.06 by 1,000 women, for an answer of…drum roll please…….a fertility rate of 60 births per 1,000 women in 2010. Make sense? Now that you know how to calculate a fertility rate, let's dive right into why.