Planet of the Humans

[willedoo]

You're right there, Jerry. It would take getting their own ar*se burnt off before a lot of people would believe it. If it comes from the words of a scientist, a lot are sceptical. The old believe it if I see it thing. Applies to topics across the board.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Guest

[Old Koreelah]

While you blokes have been debating definitions of fecundity and fertility rates, the world has changed.

It's all well and good to strive for sustainability, but look at the bigger picture. We've had a lucky few thousand years of fairly stable climate, which has allowed our species to multiply and spread over the planet, and to develop pretty sophisticated technology.

 

History tells us that other great civilizations have arisen and have collapsed. Their demise was not always due to human causes.

This young bloke is well worth listening to, especially his comments on the current inane state of our mass culture:

 

 

[nomadpete]

Thanks for posting that. Like his style. I'll be looking for more of his stuff.

[nomadpete]

Ok, now I've visited his site, I'm not so impressed. Although I liked the clip you linked,  I suspect he's a bit far down the conspiracy road for my taste.

[Old Koreelah]

Peter did you actually watch any of his videos? I have history training and find him to be a careful observer of actual evidence. He is quite thorough in referencing the work of others and seems to have inspected many ancient sites personally and in company with well-qualified people.

He is refreshingly open to new ideas, unlike the majority of mainstream historians, who tend to avoid or ignore evidence that don't fit their neat version of the past. 

 

Some uncomfortable truths that conventional archaeology can't explain and doesn't seem to talk about:

   - an enormous man-made pyramid in Java, dated to over 12,000 years old.

   - ancient massive stone constructions on several continents that are similar and which we probably couldn't build today.

   - incredibly fine machining of super-hard stone that today could only be replicated with lasers, diamond drills and CNC tools.

   - the best quality and most massive stone work is often at the bottom, indicating that, over time, technology declined. 

   

 

[nomadpete]

I did watch three or four of his vids.

I admit he does produce pretty polished clips compared to much of the YouTube stuff that is out there.

But Two things struck me:

1. He frequently asked for money. This makes me suspicious.

2. He seems too willing to 'join the dots' between facts that might make a good story. Often with little traceable science to back up the connection.

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by nomadpete
corrected the autocorrect

[onetrack]

The style of detective work analysing small samples of extremely ancient events, and coming to sound conclusions - is about on a par with finding little pieces of broken plastic and glass and metal, at the site of a major vehicle collision - after the vehicles have been removed - and then trying to tell everyone who'll listen, that you know exactly how the crash occurred, and what the make and model the vehicles were that were involved, and the speed they were travelling at!

Edited June 18, 2020 by onetrack

[nomadpete]

Thy cynic in me interprets this type of show as the presenter saying something like.......

 

"Oh look at that amazing stonework.

Even with our modern machines, we can't do that! We haven't found evidence of jackhammers at that site, so the ancient builders must have had secret powers to make it!!!"

 

Or concluding that the ancient builders MUST have had little grey men from UFO's showing them how to do it, but in spite of all that help, the people all died out.

 

Of course, all these fantastic stories are POSSIBLE. They're just not very probable.

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by nomadpete
added more opinionated bs

[onetrack]

The "experts" marvelled at the amazing precision of the tightly-bound, close-fitting joints of the stonework and brickwork in the remains of many previous civilisations.

This was put down to incredible, advanced technology that the ancients had, that had been "lost".

 

But now, more pragmatic researchers have found that the Incas, for example, figured out that the waste stream from their gold mining operations contained chemicals in acidic mud that dissolved hard rock. It was too easy to utilise that rock-dissolving mud to fit big rocks together really tightly, and provide an incredible bond between the rocks.

 

The Romans found chemicals in volcanic rocks to utilise in their "concrete" that kept strengthening with the age of the concrete. After 2000 years, the Roman concrete is now stronger than all of todays high-strength concrete.

The ancients used ready-to-hand materials, observation, and simple physical testing, of many readily available materials to provide solutions to their problems and to produce "improved technology".

 

It's also been discovered that many of the ancient swords and knives that appear to contain spectacular "modern alloys" technology, were simply hand forged from meteorites - with meteorites just happening to have the right mix of steel-alloying elements such as nickel, vanadium, manganese and chrome.

 

https://www.siftdesk.org/article-details/On-the-reddish-glittery-mud-the-Inca-used-for-perfecting-their-stone-masonry/264

 

https://www.sciencealert.com/why-2-000-year-old-roman-concrete-is-so-much-better-than-what-we-produce-today

 

https://www.ancient-origins.net/artifacts-other-artifacts/meteorite-swords-0012651

 

[nomadpete]

Thanks Onetrack.

Fascinating stuff about the Incas!

[Old Koreelah]

New fears of declining population:

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53409521

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

There was a con-man ( Von Daniken) who wrote a lot of nonsense stuff about the pyramids.  Like how they "obviously " had alien help to build.

Sadly, the truth is that the pyramids were possibly the most stupid buildings ever built from a useful purpose point of view, but they were also very clearly built with the primitive technology of the time.

None of these truths stopped Von Daniken from making money though. He was in prison for fraud when he wrote this stuff.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Here is the most amazing thing about the ancients....  how come the ancient Chinese didn't fly? They had kites and sky-rockets . They had gunpowder! and they were not hamstrung by superstition.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

19 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

...Sadly, the truth is that the pyramids were possibly the most stupid buildings ever built from a useful purpose point of view, but they were also very clearly built with the primitive technology of the time...

Bruce if you believe the old story that they were tombs, I'd agree, but no bodies, no hieroglyphs and no grave goods have been found in the Giza pyramids. We still have no idea why they were built.

 I doubt the massive internal stonework and sophisticated alignment of the various shafts and passageways is the result of primitive technology.

There is apparently much more to the Giza site than what tourists are shown, including extensive undergound tunnels that are off limits to archaeologists. 

 

A significant number of credible experts believe the nearby Sphinx was build many thousands of years before the Pharoahs. The same goes for at least the base of the great pyramid and the tunnels under that area.

Sadly, if they contain anything left by the ancients, it probably won't be preserved, because they are now flooded from the rising water table- a result of year-round irrigation enabled by the Aswan High Dam.

 

Primitive technology? There are hundreds of artefacts from ancient Egypt that we probably couldn't build today. These tend to be stored away from public view. 

 

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

This old bloke is optimistic about the Planet of the Humans:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/science-environment-53644147/james-lovelock-gaia-theory-creator-on-coronavirus-and-turning-101

[Bruce Tuncks]

Sorry to disillusion you Old K, but there is a lot of evidence to demonstrate how the pyramids were built. The lack of stuff inside can be easier explained by the stupidity of putting treasure in such a conspicuous place. And what a stupid thing for aliens to help with...  you and I can think of a million better things for them to have done.

I think the great pyramid was built with Imhotep as the chief engineer. On the bit of wall hidden behind when the door was open, in the main burial chamber, were a bunch of hieroglyphs saying what a great guy Imhotep was. No aliens mentioned...

[nomadpete]

Is it wise to put your faith in a bit of graffiti that was hidden behind the door?

[Old Koreelah]

22 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Sorry to disillusion you Old K, but there is a lot of evidence to demonstrate how the pyramids were built. The lack of stuff inside can be easier explained by the stupidity of putting treasure in such a conspicuous place. And what a stupid thing for aliens to help with...  you and I can think of a million better things for them to have done.

I think the great pyramid was built with Imhotep as the chief engineer. On the bit of wall hidden behind when the door was open, in the main burial chamber, were a bunch of hieroglyphs saying what a great guy Imhotep was. No aliens mentioned...

Bruce this does not disillusion me in the least. Where have I mentioned aliens? There is little evidence that any of the pharoahs built the pyramids; no actual records of such a great undertaking exist (but some pharoahs claimed to have "refurbished" the pyramids/Sphinx). Why aren't the pyramid chambers covered with hieroglyphs, as are the tombs in the Valley of the Kings?

 

Once again, I said that there is overwhelming evidence of advanced technology being used in Egypt and many places throughout the ancient world. Surely it's up to our "conventional" historians to properly explain this.

[onetrack]

I can explain it. The ancients had invented the Internet, power generation utilising electricity, hydraulically-operated equipment, computers, engineering programmes, and advanced materials.

But they ran out of water, then got overrun by stone-age vicious tribes, who destroyed, burnt, and vandalised every single technological thing the ancients created.

 

After all, if our advanced Western civilisations met with an apocalypse, whereby we lost our technology and were overwhelmed by hordes of violent peasants from other nations, and our technology was destroyed and buried - what would be left available for the archaeologists to examine in 5000 years time, that would show them precisely what we owned and used? Most stuff we bury today, or leave in the weather, is totally decomposed in a few short years.

 

You can get a glimpse of what would happen when you take a look at Aboriginal communities in remote regions. They let expensive machines run out of oil, they destroy, burn and vandalise anything built for them, they wreck expensive vehicles and leave them to rot, simply because they have no education, no tech knowledge and no skills to repair advanced equipment. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by onetrack

[Old Koreelah]

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

I can explain it. The ancients had invented the Internet, power generation utilising electricity, hydraulically-operated equipment, computers, engineering programmes, and advanced materials.

Despite their impressive achievements, I doubt the ancient peoples developed the sort of technology we have today.

It appears that their main focus was on creating long-lasting stone monuments, whose purpose we still argue over.

At least some of that stonework couldn't be replicated with today's technology.

Quote

But they ran out of water, then got overrun by stone-age vicious tribes, who destroyed, burnt, and vandalised every single technological thing the ancients created.

 

After all, if our advanced Western civilisations met with an apocalypse, whereby we lost our technology and were overwhelmed by hordes of violent peasants from other nations, and our technology was destroyed and buried - what would be left available for the archaeologists to examine in 5000 years time, that would show them precisely what we owned and used? Most stuff we bury today, or leave in the weather, is totally decomposed in a few short years.

I agree; in fact, if/when TSHTF, the cultures most likely to survive and flourish are currently subsistance farmers in Africa, New Guinea, the Pacific, etc.

Quote

 

You can get a glimpse of what would happen when you take a look at Aboriginal communities in remote regions. They let expensive machines run out of oil, they destroy, burn and vandalise anything built for them, they wreck expensive vehicles and leave them to rot, simply because they have no education, no tech knowledge and no skills to repair advanced equipment. 

Certainly true of too many Aboriginal communities, OT, but certainly not all. There are also too many non-aboriginal areas that fit your description and I fear they are far more likely to spawn violent parasitic gangs that target those of us who have done a better job of preparing for a distopian future.