Chairman Dan

[Jerry_Atrick]

43 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Plan and get rid of it first. Less to worry about and some one might do some good with it

True, Nev.. The other reason I intend to have as few belongings as needed when I am near the end is one of the worst feelings I have had so far is sorting through my fathers and then having to get rid of a lot of stuff. I don't want my kids to have to go through that (or I want to minimise it for them).  Naturally, I don't mind passing on valuable assets.

[facthunter]

IF you have a lot of valuable assetts they may want to hasten your demise. Good stuff they fight over as well. Have ski Holidays. Spend Kid's Inheritance.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Hopefully, I have brought my kids up not to hate me, nor to be greedy (although daughter wants to make sure she is financially independent well before retirement).

 

Whay I meant was, things like house, decent car; son gets the watch (actually, had it 20 years and it is worth 3 times what I paid for it); and daughter gets the jewellery; Some shares and other investments which won't be life changing for them. If I had millions or squillions, I would probably not leave it all to them anyway.

 

[facthunter]

 I don't like the idea of "death duties" as it destroys business structures and it's the Owners money really to do what they like with it, If the money has tax paid in it that should be the end of the matter.. BUT as PACKER (Kerry) said Paying tax if you are rich is OPTIONAL. . That's nota fair option though is it? 

[red750]

Thank you Dan Andrews for sending Victoria broke. $171 billion debt by 2026. Interest payments of $22 million per day. Highest taxed state in Australia, more than Qld NSW and Tas combined, and just gone higher.

 

All for Dan Andrews memorial monstrosities, and half finished things abandoned. The only memorial I want to see is his headstone, and a tiny one at that. One thing I can guarantee, he'll be remembered for many, many years.

 

I'd rather vote for the Neo Nazi's.

 

And before you start Facthunter, a lot of those things are good -if you can afford them.

 

Knocking down my house and building a 3 storey mansion might also be nice, but I can't afford it.

[Marty_d]

Funny, two economists I heard today were praising this budget as a responsible one which pays down debt, doesn't put pressure on the poor and is financed by the rich and big business. 

Which one are you?

[red750]

Don't kid yourself, Marty, big business will simply pass it down to customers in higher prices. The out of control debt should never have been created in the first place. Live within your means.

[onetrack]

Chairman Dan is spending $200B just on a Suburban Rail Link?? Good God, that would just about buy all the existing railways in Australia!  What's the justification for that massive expenditure, and where will the savings come from, to pay for it? Every passenger rail system in the world runs at major losses - even the Japanese Bullet trains, which carry 150M passengers a year!

[facthunter]

What's this "Before you start, facthunter" stuff?  You're way out of line Red. .  Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

I really like the idea of making the rich pay more taxes. So they will pass it on?   Of course they will try, but every dollar they pay in tax is a dollar that the rest of us don't have to pay.

I have read that inequality costs us heaps. So any effort to make the rich less so is ok by me. But you will get lots of opposition....  look at today's murdoch papers to see some..

[red750]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

You're way out of line Red

Because every time I write something about D.A., you shoot me down in flames. I guess we agree to disagree.

[facthunter]

Your stuff comes from newspapers and I only respond .I don't initiate. I don't come here for politics. I'll never post an extract from some article which is in the Murdoch press..Nev 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Me too Jerry...  my mother came down from Alice springs with a big car jammed full of rubbishy stuff which was hard to dispose of.

At first we tried to sell it, then to give it away. In the end, we had to pay for dumpsters . She would have died over again to see this.

[Jerry_Atrick]

On 23/05/2023 at 9:25 AM, red750 said:

Thank you Dan Andrews for sending Victoria broke. $171 billion debt by 2026. Interest payments of $22 million per day. Highest taxed state in Australia, more than Qld NSW and Tas combined, and just gone higher.

Victorians are defintely the highest taxed in the country- can't deny that; but more than QLD, NSW and Tas combined - I could not find anything to substantiate that - care to provide some references?

 

On 23/05/2023 at 9:25 AM, red750 said:

All for Dan Andrews memorial monstrosities, and half finished things abandoned. The only memorial I want to see is his headstone, and a tiny one at that. One thing I can guarantee, he'll be remembered for many, many years.

I hope with that logic, you want to see virtually every Lib PM's headstone as well, because all of them - especially the last one - rarely even started anything they said they would, let alone completed anything of significance of what they started. In fact, I think the reason Vic is in so much debt is becauise DA has finished quite a lot - but only of what I know (e.g. removal of level crossings, stopping that crazy link the Libs signed up to when they knew they were going to lose, etc). BTW, I am not saying DA is great - the debt is very concerning; but if you are going to go after pollies on a particular basis, better go after all of them regardless of the colours they represent.  Want to iknow why Victorians now have tolls )after many years laughing at our NSW and QLD cousins for haivng them when we didn't? Look up Toll corruption and then who implemented it (sadly, affiliated with the Hawthorn Fottball club).. and for no good reason.. And, he narrowed the other roads to ensure people would pay the toll.  It is bad to help or send a back hander to woprksers, but OK to unjustly line the pockets of large coreporates, eh? Many of us have worked for large corporates; few are under the illusion they look after us.

 

Quite frankly, if you are worried about the cost of living in Vic, you have to go a lot further than DA.

 

On 23/05/2023 at 9:25 AM, red750 said:

I'd rather vote for the Neo Nazi's.

I do hope that was just frustration; what has DA done that is is so bad and/or has made you that much worse off, if at all, such that you would rather neo-Nazis.. or, I guess, Putin, since he is displaying the same sort of traits?  The tax bill for the average Victorian earning an average salary is something like $5.7k per year (https://www.9news.com.au/national/victoria-state-budget-highest-tax-rate-australia-stamp-duty-proposed-changes/23bd7101-55f0-43d5-ad96-3c64c97437aa).

 

The latest I could find for NSW was back in 2021, where the average taxpayer was paying $4.8k/year: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-21/fact-check-chris-minns-tax/102120048. I don't recall reading NSW state taxes going down, so again, would like to see the numbers where QLD and TAS combined pay less than $1000/year on average in state taxes between them, with reference that Vic pay more than all three combined.

 

That is not to say DA is perfect nor that the debt is nothing to worry about. Personally, I think Victoria was so bereft of infrastructure investment over the years (LNP and Labor combined), that it needed to happen. I am not sure I agree level crossings needed to go; I think a more extensive public transport network in the outer suburbs would be a much better investment and drive much more economic  benefit. And of course, government investement in energy security would have insulated us from the vagaries of the global markets.

 

Debt was racked (or wracked) up when interest rates were low.. I guess they fell into the new moretgagee trap.. they are going to stay low forever, right? But Victoria needed investment after successive LNP and Labour governments stuffed up.. Who could forget the South East Freeway extension debacle under Cain/Kirner and their waste as well as Kennetts, in the end...  Let's not think the state's finanical woes are all DAs..

 

At the moment, Vic's long term ratings, which are what the markets worry about, are fair: https://www.tcv.vic.gov.au/tcv-bonds/credit-ratings

 

There is no reason why they shouldn't be AAA, but DA is not the only one to have contributed to it.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[Jerry_Atrick]

I forgot to write, I know of a UK based subsuduary of a non-Aussie, and very conservative bank that actively buys Vic government debt to hold.. they think they are on a sure thing.

[facthunter]

The Level crossings DO have to go. They are dangerous and forever hold up traffic flow often across other intersections as well.  Labor has been elected by a proper process which is where it should be decided How about showing some respect for how people vote.(ed) The Victorian opposition is considered to be practically unelectable at the moment. IF you want them in power do something about how THAT Party is functioning. and the quality of the candidates.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Re level crossings, I meant as a number one priority; regional improvements in infrastructure, statewide investment in educatiion and health would have been further up my priority list. They were bloody annoying and yes, there is definitely economic benefits to them going; just not the top of the list when Vic lags other states on other crucial services and infrastructure.

 

Maybe the clean energy SEC would have been a better investment, too.

 

BTW, I am not i anyway advocating the Vic Libs, in their current state, get anywhere near the front door to Spring Street... Victoria, and Australia deperately need a decent opposition, or people will end up voting for neo-nazis.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[facthunter]

I regard them as a HIGH priority. Melbourne had far too many of them for TOO Long and no one took the task on till the Andrews Govt pushed it  The increasing amount of rail activity made it much worse. Plenty of fatal accidents caused as well as dividing suburbs and bottle necking traffic stifling growth and efficiency.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

That's understandable, but again, I go for the numbers...

 

According to this website, way back in 2012, Victoria has the highest number of train related fatalities (and injuries): https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/victorias-level-crossings-remain-the-deadliest-in-the-nation-report-finds-20121128-2aecf.html.

 

It states: "The data records 139 people killed by trains in Victoria and 596 seriously injured over 10 years." but then it goes on to concede "The recorded deaths and injuries include those who were struck by trains, who fell between platforms or were on trains involved in collisions." It does, however, exclude suicides. Bu,  not necessarily all of these deaths were at level crossings.

 

Interestingly, the article states, "RACV public policy general manager Brian Negus said the RACV has been calling for a program to ''eradicate'' the 172 level crossings in Melbourne.", yet the worst of the rail corssing accidents, and in fact most of them happen in regional Victoria.

 

The best I could find on the net of statistics of fatalities at level crossings is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_level_crossing_crashes. Taking out other states, since 1943, which is still the worst crash in Australia where 25 people were killed at rail crossings. there have been around 72 fatalities; so that is in 80 years. Interestingly, the three worst sets of fatalities were in regional areas; As mentioend, in 1943, 25 people killed - in Wodonga; in 1952, 11 people killed near Horsham; and in 2007, 11 people killed in near Kerang and counting up the others saw around 52 of the 72 fatalities were outside Melbourne. 

 

Note, the work started in 2015 to remove level crossings in Melbourne, so this is where we should stop or at least reduce the weighting of the comparison of numbers, but even at this point in  history, the level crossing fatalities were much heavier in regional areas, and I have included the Werribbee accident in Melbourne's rather than the regional statistics. The worst single accident in Melbourne was in Boronia in 1952 - which would probably have been fairly regional at that time, anyway.. 9 people were killed there.

 

On that basis, I think the money would have been better spent on health than removing level crossings in Melbourne., Yeah- they are or were a pain, but many more lives would probably have been and probably would be saved if the investment went to health. Or at least spend the money where the real problem is.

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[Jerry_Atrick]

I forgot to address growth and efficiency; there has been plenty of investment in road infrastructure to move across Mellbourne far more efficiently without the investment to remove level crossings, such that the impact of level crossings is reduced because one is faster bypassing than going through areas that have them. The amount of road infrastructure in Melbourne that has gone on has been mind boggling.

 

In fact, in urban and subuirban areas, better public transport infrastructure and access is considered to be far more efficient as it gets people off the roads and by default, commerce using the roads is far more efficient. Imagine clean, safe convenient, and cost effective public transport.

[onetrack]

The biggest single problem with public transport in Australia is it's looked down as a "losers" method of transport - plus it's frequented constantly by petty crims and graffiti artists, who simply use it as a handy way to go and do crime in a different area to where they live.

 

My stepdaughters boyfriend is a train controller, and you wouldn't believe the train travel stories and events he comes out with - nearly all of which are recorded on CCTV, too, I might add.

Gangs fighting each other on late night trains, abusing other passengers who were previously minding their own business, assaults, grubs of passengers throwing up on trains and leaving it for others to clean up - in one episode he related, someone actually shat on a train seat, and left it there in full view!!

 

The trains seem to encourage every deadbeat and lowlife around. They "surf" the trains, hanging off the rear of the carriages, jump across tracks and platforms (despite this being banned and signposted otherwise) - and the number of idiots who get clobbered by trains, or who escape certain death by millimetres, is unbelievable!

That's not to mention the constant suicides by train, which are not reported, due to fear of copycat behaviour. Every train driver here has experienced at least one suicide while they're driving, and quite a number have had multiple suicides in their time.

They pull the windscreen shade down when they see someone about to go under a train, it's supposed to reduce the drivers trauma, not actually seeing the person hit.

 

Then there's absolute idiots who get drunk and wander onto train lines. A few weeks ago, this happened on a Southern line in the outer suburbs. The train driver saw a shadow and heard a thump about 10:00PM, and reckoned he'd hit someone. So the train is stopped and all emergency services scrambled, to go look for the victim.

The problem was, the victim had been whacked a glancing blow, and had dragged himself away from the line - so he couldn't be found. He didn't want to be found, anyway, as he knew he'd be in the poo for being on the line.

 

So a couple of hours was wasted looking for this clown, tying up searchers, police, ambulance drivers - and the trains stopped running for those 2 hrs. Much later on, they did a hospital search and found where this clown has presented with a number of injuries for treatment - but gave another reason how he had incurred them.

Of course, hospital staff aren't stupid, they know what causes various types of injuries, and they're in the loop with police and emergency services, so they knew an injured person was being sought.

Some grilling by the police in the hospital and the truth came out. All this cost and inconvenience, simply because of one drunken clown.

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by onetrack

[Jerry_Atrick]

Yeah.. these are common issues across Europe, which has a much higher usage of trains. However, most of these will be happening later at night, when a lot of people will be safely tucked up in bed, and the cleaning and maintenance crews will have sorted things out. Of course, (sadly) suicides happen anytime, but so do road accidents and they can hold people up for quite a while. And I have seen two people in my lifetime fling themselves in front of cars in attempts to commit suicide - one on the day before I last left Aus for the UK. Admittedly, it doesn't hild up the traffic as much, but the police wanted me to stay until an unspecified future date to appear in court as a witness.. Thankfully, my family lawyer was contactable on a Saturday, and I was able to make a deposition.

 

The times when the roads are clogged are generally during the day (except when the Booze Buses are out - something we don't have in the UK). Not much of the drunks, defecation, etc happen until most public transport users have stopped using it and the arguiment about efficeincy and economic benefit no longer apply. Some things like defecation can be addressed by making toilets available on longer travelling trains. Yes, I know this will mean they will probably end up looking like a sewer, but at least a) it doesn't happen on the seat and b) if a lot of other people are on the train, then sometimes this is enough for people with some modicum of modesty and pride to refrain from doing somethign stupid as the next person will find out. These seem to work on overground trains *(i.e. non Ttube) in London.

 

But it does take a shift of bnehaviour - and inititally, some large traffic police in bomber jackets with baseball bats (or cricket ones..) may help in the initial phases.

[red750]

I acknowledge the original custodians of the land on which this post as written.

 

Not so much Dan this time but Melbourne City Council.

 

Parts of Flinders, Spencer and Collins streets could be closed to cars at peak times under a Melbourne city council proposal to reduce the number of people driving through the CBD and prioritise pedestrians.

 

Blocking some city streets to private vehicles between set times each day and restricting car access to a single direction along others are key proposals in the scheme to make the city more walkable.

 

 

Thank you Lord Mayor Sally (Andy?) Capp. Phone zombies and cyclists win again.

 

[facthunter]

Perhaps it's GOOD to make a City more Liveable and welcoming to Pedestrians?  The Council is elected also.  Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Even ex Ferrari and F1 boss is weighing in the debate about Aussie road rules, and he seems all for increasing public transport and keeping cars out of cbd streets - in Australia!  https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-need-for-speed-even-this-former-f1-boss-says-it-s-time-for-a-rethink-on-road-rules-20230526-p5dbpx.html

 

There will always be a need for a car, but in major citites, they should be - for personal transport - the exception and not the rule, esdpecially since the advent of electric bikes and scooters, though there is some work to go towards safey with the latter..  I can't even believe I am saying it as I enjoyed driving into work for the early bird parking.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick