Chairman Dan

[facthunter]

Friedhamburger lost the safest Liberal seat in Australia (Kooyong) by lobbing hand grenades at the Victorian premier. People are sick of the Murdoch inspired constant attacks which never let up. They were afraid he might run for a federal seat. Mike Baird (an ex NSW  Premier) said Dan was  Honest and good to work with and nearly got tarred and feathered by the usual culprits. They attack Lindsay FOX also as he said good things about Andrews. . The State Liberal party is not running smoothly either so when they can run it better they MIGHT get somewhere.  I wouldn't put money on their current leader John Pessuto lasting long. He's too straight and over Qualified for them to stomach.  Nev

[red750]

Victorians face a $380 million tax bill for not doing something.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Yes - there is no denying a brain fart or moment of self-indulgence has cost the taxpayer dearly. An article in The Age says he was warned of the risks whgen taking it on, but without some context such as the probability of the risks materialising, such a statement is of little value unless he failed to take mitigating action appropriate to the risk.

 

This is his defence:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=dan+andrews+380+milli0on#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:611e1092,vid:Lsuf7CMTxXY

 

He mounts a credible-ish defence in that everythign has gone up and a lot of people are experiencing greater than expected costs. However, is such a short time, with what was steady inflation, I, at this stage don't believe he heeded the risks enough, ort the original cost projections where overly optimistic.

 

And, to be honest - "Now, we can go and building housing for regional Victoria" is plain BS. Is he telling us he decided to transfer money earmarked for regional housing to the Commonwealth games? Or that suddenly, because he said yes to the Commonwealth Games, suddenly 2.6bn was found behind the sofa?

 

@red750 - I know you and I don't often see eye to eye with respect to DA, but this time, we do, I think. To me, this looks like a big ego/vanity trip that went wrong and there's maybe 700 or so regional houses (assuming $500khouse) that has gone to the coffers of the Commonwealth Games commission or whoever they are.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[facthunter]

Times changed so you adjust to different circumstances. .  The Commonwealth games is on it's last legs and Victoria stepped up to the plate as a last  offer.. Helping the non metropolitan area was always the plan so that can still be done at bilions less by building houses..  Nev

[red750]

Announcement today that the $380 million was only the settlement with FIFA. Other costs to pay off the cancellation of building contracts, interest etc.., will push the total cost of the non games closer to $600 million.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I had a look at The Age and the ABC sites but couldn't find reference to it - do you have a link?

 

Wouldn't surprise me, but if DA's government were smart, they may try and negotiate it down by getting the construction and supplies companies to start work on regional housing? Or vary the contracts to make it regional housing?

[red750]

2 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

do you have a link?

No. He was interviewed on the news tonight.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Ahh. OK.. look forward to the news in the papes tomorrow... thanks

 

[red750]

No comment.

 

https://www.ombudsman.vic.gov.au/our-impact/news/creeping-politicisation-of-public-sector-a-reality-in-victoria-ombudsman/

[Jerry_Atrick]

No comment needed. Not defending it, but it is hardly unque in Australia, and other Westminster based jurisdictions at tme moment. Just look at how many exec public servants seemed to politically rather public-servant motivated in the Robodebt Royal Commission. John Barillaro for the NSW Free Trade Commissioner job where they found someone apparently well qualified and experienced, and then reneged on the job offer?  It's that old saying: it aint what you know; it's who you know.

 

Obviously the regulations or laws surrounding public servant appointments has to be made more transparent and as press willing to expose wrong-doing. Somehow I don't see either coming to that party anytime soon.

[old man emu]

Having read the comments of the Ombudsperson in the above link, I can see now where by Working Dog Productions got the idea for their comedy show, Utopia that premiered on the ABC on 13 August 2014. The show follows the working lives of a team in the fictional Nation Building Authority, a newly created government organisation. The Authority is responsible for overseeing major infrastructure projects, from announcement to unveiling. The series explores the collision between bureaucracy and grand ambitions.

 

So many of the episodes zeroed in on projects that soon were realities in real life. I think that the Tullamarine rail link was one, and the football stadium in Tasmania was another. Part of the running joke was the fatuous PR-speak of the politicians and their aides, and their refusal to listen to the sane advice and warnings of the dedicated Public Servants. Another running joke was that when things went pear-shaped, the politicians threw the blame back of the Public Servants whose advice or warnings had not been heeded.

[old man emu]

Does "sane advice" and "sage advice" in the above context mean the same thing?

 

And when they wrote the song, why did Simon and Garfunkel parse Leigh, Sage, Rosemary and Time?

[nomadpete]

In the beginning......

 

There was a VISION.

And the vision was based upon assumptions.

 

And the assumptions were without substance.

 

And darkness fell upon the faces at the coalface.

And they spake amongst themselves, saying.....

 

"This is a crock of shyte and it stinketh!"

 

And the workers went unto their supervisors, saying unto them....

 

"This is a pail of dung and none can abide the odour thereof."

 

And the supervisors went unto their team leaders, saying......

 

"It is a container of excrement and is very strong, such that none may resist it's strength."

 

And the team leaders went unto their managers, saying.....

 

"This plan contains all that  promotes growth and is most powerful."

 

And the managers went unto the board, saying....

 

"At the end of the day this new plan will actively promote strong growth and efficiency for everyone!"

 

And the board looked upon THE PLAN and saw that it was GOOD.

 

And the PLAN became POLICY

 

And this, my friend, is how shit HAPPENS.

[facthunter]

Public servants are NOT elected and love to rise above their station if given the voice and opportunity. They are NOT there to decide Gov't policy or be the only source of information on all things.  Nev

[red750]

Ouch!!   Bit my tongue.

[Marty_d]

17 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Public servants are NOT elected and love to rise above their station if given the voice and opportunity. They are NOT there to decide Gov't policy or be the only source of information on all things.  Nev

They ARE there to give frank and fearless advice to the Minister.  Consider the Robodebt affair.  If the leadership of the department responsible for implementing that program HAD given advice to the Minister that the program was deeply flawed and illegal - then it may not have ended up being the huge and expensive mistake that it turned out to be.  Remember that your elected politicians are just people from different walks of life (usually the IPA for Libs and union organisers for Labor) but they do not have the huge amount of knowledge that resides in the Public Service.  They NEED advice about what's possible and what's not, and more importantly, the pitfalls and what's advisable or inadvisable.  Yes they make the decision but they have to make it on based on facts.

[facthunter]

Certainly Politicians are not likely to have expert knowledge of complex things, Nor can the Public service entities... Nev

[old man emu]

I wonder if the practice that has developed of engaging public sector consultants whose recommendations seem to bolster each government's election platforms, but never seem to say that an idea is the proverbial "crock o' ...", has lead to a situation or policy that the senior public servants who are supposed to be the source of good and bad news have adopted a "whatevaaaa" attitude.

 

As I reconnect with my high school classmates, I hear that many of them attended university, then had careers in the public service utilising the skills coming from that university education.  Nowadays it seems that the most desirable qualification in a public service job at that upper middle level is a degree in business management. All the research and development work for projects seems to come to nought if the answer to the question, "What'll  it cost?", is political 1080.

 

And let's not direct all out scorn towards Danny Boy. Just look at the WestConnex M4-M5 Link Rozelle Interchange in Sydney.  Some of the key benefits of the WestConnex M4-M5 Link Rozelle Interchange will result in:

• Reduce capacity constraints and congestions;
• Meet or exceed the capacity, connectivity, network performance and safety of travel by delivering a clear road hierarchy separating local and through traffic;
• Deliver a solution that maximises urban renewal opportunities at surface sites, to provide tangible benefits to community;

Here is the initial news report created shortly after the interchange was opened. You can see it's the Press release version:

 

 

And here's the reality:

 

[Marty_d]

16 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Certainly Politicians are not likely to have expert knowledge of complex things, Nor can the Public service entities... Nev

When it comes to things like the Robodebt debacle I would argue that the public service entity most definitely DID have the expert knowledge to know that you can't assume a debt by income averaging.  This was brought to the CEO's attention by a brave debt worker within the department who had that expert knowledge.  Whether or not senior staff in the APS choose to seek out the expertise that exists in their own agency is up to them, but it does exist and they definitely should.

[facthunter]

When It's proper process and ethics, Of course. That was one of the nastiest Mean spirited things I've ever  seen or heard of foisted on  a group of people least able to defend it. They KNEW what they were doing and kept doing it like the bunch of rotten  A/holes they are.  IF I had my way they'd be behind Bars. I know some of the consequences suffered by the victims because they are close to me.   Nev

[spacesailor]

And they Are dragging their feet " over Christmas " to remedy that problem! .

spacesailor

[facthunter]

I have NO IDEA what you are talking about spacey.  Nev

[old man emu]

29 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I have NO IDEA what you are talking about spacey.  Nev

Fixing the shemozzle of the Rozelle interchange.

[facthunter]

That's a STATE gov't matter and they only recently voted Labor.  Nothing at all to do with ROBODEBT.  Nev

[spacesailor]

Those affected will get No recompense untill after Christmas! .

so say some who ' have ' complained of inaction to their financial problems .

spacesailor