Old Koreelah Posted October 18, 2014 Posted October 18, 2014 Abbott's culpable opposition to renewable energy could result in the decimation of many communities. http://m.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/why-abbotts-faith-in-coal-could-be-wrong--very-wrong-20141017-117k1b.html
Old Koreelah Posted October 18, 2014 Posted October 18, 2014 It's clear from the content of this thread that its title is incorrect; Australia hasn't perfected solar power and can't produce an economically viable alternative source to coal.QED Turbs I agree that the thread title is stupidly untrue, but I'm having problems with your amazing claim that this country cannot produce an economic alternative to coal. If this a comment on the woeful short-sightedness of our business and political leaders then I agree. After all, Australia is the country which imported 4WDs for fifty years before our car industry finally noticed a local market and decided to build AWDs here. If you are saying coal is the only viable way to generate power then real-world events are rapidly overtaking you.
turboplanner Posted October 18, 2014 Posted October 18, 2014 It's clear from the content of this thread that its title is incorrect; Australia hasn't perfected solar power and can't produce an economically viable alternative source to coal.QED CORRECTION It's clear from this thread that Australia hasn't yet perfected solar power to the point that it can compete with coal fired power stations. With the possible exception of some hydro-electric power stations I'm not aware of Australia having any other working and viable sources to coal on a scale to power Cities. How's that
Old Koreelah Posted October 18, 2014 Posted October 18, 2014 CORRECTIONIt's clear from this thread that Australia hasn't yet perfected solar power to the point that it can compete with coal fired power stations. With the possible exception of some hydro-electric power stations I'm not aware of Australia having any other working and viable sources to coal on a scale to power Cities. How's that Agreed. And we're not likely to get there without a bit of vision from our leaders. Not likely. When we vote, we seem to be preoccupied with the next couple of years. Maybe our children should have a vote. After all, they're the ones to inherit the mess we make of the place, and will have to pay the bill.
turboplanner Posted October 18, 2014 Posted October 18, 2014 If you take the socialist view, then you are quite right. And the reason you are quite right is that our leader and opposition leader of the day are far too busy with the urgent day to day business of tens of portfolios, not the least of which is Finance. If I had my wish the solution would be solar power, but clearly that needs a few technology leaps.
Old Koreelah Posted October 18, 2014 Posted October 18, 2014 If you take the socialist view, then you are quite right.And the reason you are quite right is that our leader and opposition leader of the day are far too busy with the urgent day to day business of tens of portfolios, not the least of which is Finance. If I had my wish the solution would be solar power, but clearly that needs a few technology leaps. ...those technology leaps are happening. What's missing is a bit of vision from our leaders, who are mired in the past. Every new building could be roofed with PVs, making our cities self-sufficient in energy. Given the subsidies built into our economy, redirecting some funds to achieve this shouldn't be too hard, and would boost local industry. Not so long ago we couldn't image everyone having a mobile phone. Now most households around the world- even in Africa- have one.
Marty_d Posted October 18, 2014 Posted October 18, 2014 If you take the socialist view, then you are quite right.And the reason you are quite right is that our leader and opposition leader of the day are far too busy with the urgent day to day business of tens of portfolios, not the least of which is Finance. If I had my wish the solution would be solar power, but clearly that needs a few technology leaps. No, they're busy reacting to every news item and poll, making up policy on the fly and desperately trying to work out what their stance should be on each and every "issue" in order to sway those marginal electorates for the next election. Their vision is limited to the next 3 years (max) so anything of any substance gets ignored. Note that this applies to both major parties, not just the current bumbling bunch of incompetents.
Old Koreelah Posted October 18, 2014 Posted October 18, 2014 Maybe Australia should institute a prize for good leadership, awarded years after the full effects of decisions have become clear. The Nobel Prizes for Science are usually awarded yonks after a research breakthrough; hindsight allow us to see the far-reaching effects of the innovation or discovery. If there was a decent pension attached it might encourage a bit of forward thinking. Wonder if one of our well-known philanthropic squillionairs could chip in a few bob?
Dafydd Llewellyn Posted October 18, 2014 Posted October 18, 2014 Maybe Australia should institute a prize for good leadership, awarded years after the full effects of decisions have become clear.The Nobel Prizes for Science are usually awarded yonks after a research breakthrough; hindsight allow us to see the far-reaching effects of the innovation or discovery. If there was a decent pension attached it might encourage a bit of forward thinking. Wonder if one of our well-known philanthropic squillionairs could chip in a few bob? I suggest you read "Parkisnson's Law" - the chapter on how to select a Prime Minister . . . "Boards of Selection" I think is the title of the chapter.
Old Koreelah Posted October 18, 2014 Posted October 18, 2014 Good idea Dafydd, but after wading thru the Parkinsonisms that Mr. Google has tossed up I am ready to slit my wrists... One can only take so much.
Teckair Posted October 18, 2014 Posted October 18, 2014 Every new building could be roofed with PVs, making our cities self-sufficient in energy. Yeah that should do it, while the sun is shining anyway, just don't worry about night time, cloudy days and all the rest of the reasons why that would not compete with coal. Another expert I guess.
facthunter Posted October 18, 2014 Posted October 18, 2014 Experts from a University in this country, said the technology is already here NOW and getting far better and cheaper by the day. This is without nuclear. The main opposition is from vested interests trying to prop up the viability of the older COAL based power centralised supply and expensive grid system. They are now caught with a failed business model. of reduced demand , high (er) costs and consumer resistance to their necessary cost rises, and the consequences of CO2 from cola. I have just moved my supplier form one of the BAD 3 who are trying to impede "clean energy" alternatives actively and I was phoned by a representative of the previous company asking why I left.( and probably hoping to give me an offer that would change my mind) We actually had a very good conversation and I was able to calmly go through all the things that I was not happy with. He understood just why I have left, and I believe THEY know they are in trouble. Perhaps they will modify their actions if more contact them and tell they how they feel (Nicely) and go elsewhere. I intend to change my current bank who actively fund new mines as soon as it can be arranged . Gunns in Tasmania failed because of pressure on funding from banks by ordinary people.. The Rockefellers in the US have divested from OIL. What other proof do you need that things ARE changing and all the millions of dollars spent confusing the subject won't help eventually. As it has been said "You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't FOOL ALL of the people ALL of the time" Nev
rankamateur Posted October 18, 2014 Posted October 18, 2014 http://sciencealert.com.au/news/20140506-25618.html new future!
Marty_d Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 Yeah that should do it, while the sun is shining anyway, just don't worry about night time, cloudy days and all the rest of the reasons why that would not compete with coal. Another expert I guess. Trying hard to understand where you're coming from Teckair. Do you actually like coal powered generation? Yes there are problems with solar, wind etc not working 24/7. That's why we need advances in battery technology, more efficient products (and haven't they come a long way already - light globes that use about 10% of incandescent consumption, LED/LCD TVs that are hugely more efficient than CRT, fridges and freezers that use half the power compared to 20 years ago, etc etc.) If there were battery systems out there which were cost efficient, compact, efficient, large capacity and low loss, combined with "whole of roof" printed PV roofing, most houses would be able to generate more than enough power to meet demand all year round and not even need grid connection. And that's just solar. Add in a small wind turbine where appropriate, good energy efficient building design, heat transfer ventilation, high performance glazing, etc - voila, one less house needing inefficient centralised power generation.
Old Koreelah Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 Electricity storage technology is developing at an impassive rate; night time solar power is already viable in some areas. We will probable need the network for a few decades to redistribute local generation, but it will eventually be left to crumble as was the case with phone lines. Many developing counties have skipped the whole idea of landlines and have suddenly got modern mobile communication systems Our grandparents couldn't conceive of the day when every house would have its own stand-alone refrigerating system. The same development process is likely to happen with domestic electricity- just faster. .
Old Koreelah Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 ...and to insult to injury, rises in the price of electricity which Abbott blamed on the carbon "tax" were largely a result of overspending on the electricity distribution system. What a con!
Marty_d Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 ...and to insult to injury, rises in the price of electricity which Abbott blamed on the carbon "tax" were largely a result of overspending on the electricity distribution system. What a con! OK!! How can you denigrate our "beloved leader" like that. If he hadn't got rid of that crippling tax, we'd be paying $100 for our lamb roasts! You know it's true, because he said so.
turboplanner Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 Clearly there's no real interest in the technical aspects of this thread.
skeptic36 Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 and the consequences of CO2 from cola. It makes me burp, I didn't realise that was CO2 though....... It smells much worse
rankamateur Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 Clearly there's no real interest in the technical aspects of this thread. I did my best. oh well!
Teckair Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 Experts from a University in this country, said the technology is already here NOW Must be right if they said so. More experts.
Teckair Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 Trying hard to understand where you're coming from Teckair. Do you actually like coal powered generation? No I don't like coal powered generation, probably not many do, but as I understand it the reality is we do not have a practical alternative and some stuff said on this thread is just plain stupid. I do not use power from the grid and we make our own how many of you experts can say that? Including the ones from the university? It works for us but at this point I cannot see it being the case for the whole country. I see this thread as a silly exercise in bashing the LNP.
Old Koreelah Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 ...some stuff said on this thread is just plain stupid. Which bits? I see this thread as a silly exercise in bashing the LNP. Who mentioned them?
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