facthunter Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 Prison cells are very profitable. Fast growing business. No rehab... (reduces the profits. Private enterprise for everything) Nev
coljones Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 Yeah that should do it, while the sun is shining anyway, just don't worry about night time, cloudy days and all the rest of the reasons why that would not compete with coal. Another expert I guess. The only electricity produced in Sydney is solar with a bit of tri-gen or wind. Coal fired power has to be trucked in from out of town - over 200km away. Apart from darkness blanketing solar all over NSW at the same time the same can't be said for wind which is always blowing somewhere and wind-power can be trucked in over the same transmission lines used to deliver coal fired electricity. Coal fired power stations are major sources of pollution which is why they are longer running in the cities. The fact is that we have exported our pollution to the Hunter Valley or Wallerawang and there is no excuse to claim that it is clean. I would actually like to see a major coal fired power station in Canberra so that the wind turbine haters have something to really complain about.
facthunter Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 The Hunter Valley where I was born is stuffed. Nev
Teckair Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 The Hunter Valley where I was born is stuffed. Nev So is this thread what a load of garbage.
eightyknots Posted October 20, 2014 Posted October 20, 2014 The Hunter Valley where I was born is stuffed. Nev You mean it is stuffed due to demand for coal dwindling (due to increased uptake of solar power)?
facthunter Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Coal dust and vineyards being bulldozed for open cut. Who could see that as desirable. I remember what it used to be like. Is that so wrong? Nev
DonRamsay Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 ...similar to the losses involved in pumping electricity over long distances. Hard to generalise on line losses but it is more likely less than 10% .
DonRamsay Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 The Hunter Valley is currently highly disturbed between Singleton and Cessnock with a bit to the West of Muswellbrook towards Denman. Nev, I don't know of any vineyards that were pulled out to make way for Open Cut mines. Could have been but I don't know of any. I worked for a Company that bought Edinglassie, the home of the then owners of Rosemount Estate. The house came with three small vineyards. At least one of the vineyards the Otleys said was beyond repair. They had given up on it. We couldn't face doing what the Oatleys suggested . . . bulldoze it and ended up spending around $500,000 bringing it back into full production. In the end, Rosemount were so impressed with the quality of fruit we were growing that they started buying grapes from us. Also, all the mines are not only obliged to rehabilitate the disturbed land back to grazing land or farming land (whatever it was before being mined) but they have to provide the State Government with massive bank guarantees to ensure that the rehab happens even if the mining company goes broke. So, short term (20 to 30 years) ugly for billions of dollars of revenue for State and Federal Governments, billions of dollars for very highly paid mining employees and contractors and industry supplying the coal industry will have been generated. No question that means short term the Valley is ripped apart. Short term here could be 20 to 30 years but not very long in the great scheme of things. Not arguing coal is great for the environment but the environment can survive and will be restored. And, let's face it, Coal Mining will end in our lifetime either because it gets to be so on the nose or because, hopefully, it is replaced by nuclear fusion (not filthy fission).
Old Koreelah Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 ...hopefully, it is replaced by nuclear fusion (not filthy fission). Free, clean energy from nuclear fusion is already widely available, especially in Australia. We just need to collect a lot more of it.
eightyknots Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 Free, clean energy from nuclear fusion is already widely available, especially in Australia. We just need to collect a lot more of it. Which brings us back to "How Australia perfected solar power ....."
Teckair Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 This thread might qualify as the most ill informed load of crap of all time.
fly_tornado Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Dutch turning footpaths into solar panels http://www.solaroad.nl/en/
Old Koreelah Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Hard to generalise on line losses but it is more likely less than 10% . ...probably true on average Don, but over the long distances we have in Australia the line losses must be substantially more. Years ago the pioneering solar power station at White Cliffs in western NSW was in need of refurbishing. The relevant government Minister decreed that it be closed and a power line built from Broken Hill, which apparently cost more. The transmission losses over that great distance would also have been substantial. The plonker was eventually given a golden parachute to a cushy position in London.
facthunter Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Supplying low amounts of power over long distances,........ you only have to look at the poles and wires and transformers and the small places they supply. It cannot add up. They would have to be heavily subsidised. The whole of the NT has a population of 200,000 which equals 1/2 of Geelong. Barkly Roadhouse has generators running at 500 litres /day at a cost of close to 900 dollars per day just for the fuel. Nev
DonRamsay Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 This thread might qualify as the most ill informed load of crap of all time. I haven't read it all to be honest but a slightly more informative criticism than "load of crap" would be helpful in understanding where we all went wrong.
fly_tornado Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 What Tekair means is solar = Green/Left/Socialist conspiracy
facthunter Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Yeah It's all made up. Those retreating glaciers are in on it too. Nev
fly_tornado Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 did you see that show on SBS about the gulf stream and the northern hemisphere's crap weather? very interesting
nomadpete Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 did you see that show on SBS about the gulf stream and the northern hemisphere's crap weather? very interesting Clearly that was another communist plot
nomadpete Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 Regarding electricity transmission losses - I can ask around, but I understand that the 10% is around right. The big transformers run around 99% efficiency. A lot of effort goes into minimising losses with careful design and also power factor correction. Next time I'm out in the field, I'll make a point of noting some power figures.
facthunter Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 99% sounds high. I thought it was generally in the 80's My brother would know as he worked his whole life for a show like the SEC, near the top. I will check with him if you can't get the info.. The capital cost has to be justified. All posts are steel because of the termites. Mines are the only big users but they don't want to be on a network as they like to NOT help their competitors, so they use "lakes " of diesel. and stay independent. BNP Billiton take the global warming into their investment calculations. Others are busy trying to kill renewables off. Its really topical today in the ParLIARment. As I said the other day .I've moved suppliers. We don't have to prop up the Dinasaur generators. They invested with full knowledge of the reality in the system. NOW they want the playing field changed to maximise their (dirty) profits. Nev
Old Koreelah Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 did you see that show on SBS about the gulf stream and the northern hemisphere's crap weather? very interesting Thanks for that FT. I didn't know about that show. I'll look for it on iView. Over the years that I have been banging on about climate change, I have included that scenario. With so much fresh water being release by the collapse of glaciers in western Greenland, a flush of fresh cold water into the Labrador Current could put the Gulf Stream right out of wack. Result: Britain has the same climate as Labrador, and the knock-on effects are enormous. Enough to end civilisations. Our planet's climate is pretty complicated.
geoffreywh Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 I was a "human endeavour climate change sceptic" But, having seen the SBS doco I am puzzled , if , as SBS , reports, the evidence is so strong that climate change is happening NOW . How come there are so many disbelievers? I feel that I may have to get off the fence and fall on the side of 'Climate Change for whatever reason (But most probably man made) "....
eightyknots Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 I was a "human endeavour climate change sceptic" But, having seen the SBS doco I am puzzled , if , as SBS , reports, the evidence is so strong that climate change is happening NOW . How come there are so many disbelievers? I feel that I may have to get off the fence and fall on the side of 'Climate Change for whatever reason (But most probably man made) ".... Did you change your mind after one SBS show? That's remarkable: I have seen a few SBS shows and it has never changed my philosophy on any position.
bexrbetter Posted October 22, 2014 Posted October 22, 2014 This thread might qualify as the most ill informed load of crap of all time. Then stop the pain, avert your gaze. BTW; Go to your favorite dictionary and look up the word "forum" for it's actual meaning.
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