How Australia Perfected Solar Power and Then Went Back to Coal

[fly_tornado]

Bex, you can still legally marry your cousin in 37 of the United States of America, cause apparently the science still isn't in.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Bex, you can still legally marry your cousin in 37 of the United States of America, cause apparently the science still isn't in.

Well it all started with a brother and sister anyway and we turned out alright. Well, most of us.

 

http://knitting-nannas.com/

 

 

[Teckair]

The title of this thread reflects the misinformation that many of the posts contain.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Bex ignorance is the tool of the politician not the scientist

 

 

[dazza 38]

Not really, gas is showing up leaking out of the ground after fracking negating any carbon saving. Methane is a much worse greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

I suggest you go away and do some research on CSG and not spin the same crap as other ill informed people do.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Bex ignorance is the tool of the politician not the scientist

It's most certainly not a revelation that scientists have had to rely on funding or grants for literally the entire history of science dating back to the Greeks.

 

Global Warming Causes Global Spending: Follow the Money

 

Global warming causes, when you follow the money, are shown to be nothing but political excuses to waste trillions in unnecessary global spending. Billions of those tax dollars are taken from an unsuspecting public, then given – tax-free – to the global warming gurus who keep the lie going; so it really should come as no surprise that those very gurus do all they can to keep their cash-cow alive and kicking. Some estimates put the spending on global warming causes at one billion dollars a day.

 

Governments around the world, at the behest of the U.N., spend vast amounts of money on a problem which only exists in computer models. Climate change research has become big business; driven by political ideology and greed, instead of a quest for truth. There are reams of real-world data available which effortlessly debunk the myth of climate change. However; if it is ever mentioned publicly, the data is laughed off as conspiracy theory “denial,” obviously being spread by agents of Big Energy.

 

If any individual or organization – with more than two dimes to rub together – should decide to fund climate research not predicated on anthropogenic global warming causes, they will be accused of employing “dark money.” – particularly if the donors have opted to keep their identities to themselves. Since the global warming cause faithful will picket, protest, threaten, intimidate and lie about any person involved in “heresy” against their religion, who can blame people for wanting to remain anonymous?

 

Here in America, DOE stimulus loans – the entire Energy Department loan portfolio, in fact – have gone to people and companies with significant connections to Democratic politicians. Those recipients all seem to have been top donors, fundraisers and bundlers for Obama and other Democrats in high office. Following the global warming money shows that it causes American spending almost equal to the amount of global spending. The U.N. has very little on the U.S., when it comes to funding global warming causes.

 

Starting in 2009, the Energy Department has employed three funding and loan programs – along with pressure from President Obama and Vice President Biden – to monetize 33 projects. Section 1705 of the 2009 Recovery Act; Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) and the 1603 Treasury Program. 1705 and the ATVM have guaranteed $34.5 billion in taxpayer money, which has given America such notable losers as Solyndra, Fisker Automotive, Beacon Power, the Vehicle Production Group, Abound Solar and SoloPower. There are more “green” sinkholes out there still, waiting to implode.

 

Treasury Program 1603 alone awarded free taxpayer cash to campaign donors cum green energy execs to the tune of $19,349,675,402.00 How is private money supposed to compete with those kinds of numbers?

 

In Nevada, Senator Harry Reid has been using Green stimulus money to buy his reelections. Nevada Geothermal won a $98.5 million loan in September 2010. Ormat Nevada won $350 million and SolarReserve won $737 million in September 2011. All three companies got their money from the SWIP-E project, which Reid championed and campaigned on. Those three companies – through their executives – have donated more than $58,000 to Reid and other Democrats, since 2008.

 

BrightSource Energy won of $1.6 billion in April 2011for a solar project. BrightSource Energy also held a fundraiser for Senator Reid in their Oakland offices, hosted by none other than then-CEO, John Woolard and then-chairman of PG&E, along with Peter Darbee of BrightSource Energy, in August 2010.

 

A survey of 3247 US research scientists who address global warming causes – all publicly funded through the National Institutes of Health, an agency of the United States Department of Health and Human Services – published in the science journal Nature, showed that 503 of them admitted to altered the design, methodology or results of their studies, due to pressure from funding sources. Those were just the scientists willing to be honest; it is safe to assume a much larger number.

 

 

Evidently, the key to obtaining grant money resides in what your study says it means to discover. Should a scientist want to study the migratory patterns of a particular butterfly, they might title their grant proposal like this: “A study of the migratory patterns of the Blue Mountain Swallowtail Butterfly.” A perfectly reasonable title for a proposal which will certainly yield greater knowledge of the natural world.

 

However, that scientist is competing against another researcher, whose title is “A study of the effects of Global Warming and Climate Change on the migratory patterns of the Blue Mountain Swallowtail Butterfly.” Both people would be gathering the exact same data, but only one of them purports to forward the global warming cause. There is no doubt as to which scientist will be funded.

 

Of course, the “global warming cause” industry, which collects all those billions in tax-free grants, is not above fudging numbers, data manipulation or lying with a straight face. When they get caught, they say they are only exaggerating to emphasize how important the global warming cause is. It cannot be about the money, since they claim to have absolutely the best of intentions. Therefore, they can only be judged on their ideals; condemning them for the lies they tell, the financial crimes they perpetrate and waste they incur, might jeopardize the “scientific process.” Follow the money and it is easy to see where global warming causes global spending.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Quite interesting Bex. We little people are bombarded by conflicting messages. Who do we believe? Big Business has funded so much scientific skullduggery in the past that we have good reason to be skeptical about anything they say. The Murdoch empire, which controls the agenda, has such a shoddy record that anything they promote is suspect.

 

My own education, life experiences and inclinations cause me to follow the Precautionary Principle: we should place the long term survival of our children ahead of our short-term comfort. That means build up our renewable energy sector, reduce our reliance on importing oil from unstable regions and promote new, clean industries in our country.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I suggest you go away and do some research on CSG and not spin the same crap as other ill informed people do.

I will explain for others, coal seams lay under impervious layers of sand stone. Fracking is used in approx 8 to 10 percent of wells. Depending on where. Where I work, we have the Walloon coal seam. The coal seam is loose, hence no fracking is done that I know of.

 

CSG is one of the most inspected and tested industries in Australia. We are constantly monitored by government departments. Our wells in world terms are second to none. We hardly ever have a methane leak and when we do, it's minimal. We have had multi millon dollar test equipment testing for gas leaks in the fields from time to time from 3rd party resources. And the test every single well for leaks.

 

The local feed lots have more methane coming out of the cows backsides .

 

The trouble is, other countries have CSG wells that leak like sieves and do cause environmental damage. Unfortunately movies are made and everybody thinks that all around the world it is the same.

 

Just to expand this further, methane does naturally leak from coal seams from shallow seams from time to time when the sandstone is fractured natually. The coal seam gas being under ground are held under pressure from water hence the coal seams are dewatered to make it easier to bring the gas to surface. The dept of coal seams vary from as a example 100 metres to over a 1000 metres deep.

 

 

[turboplanner]

So how do they stop the groundwater draining through the cracks they make in the rock?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Dazza m8 you'r poisoning the groundwater. Its not rocket science. Once you start dissolving that coal you have no control where it goes

 

 

[winsor68]

At least his blinkers are gold plated...

 

 

[dazza 38]

You blokes are funny, do you work in the industry ? I guess not.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

The dept of coal seams vary from as a example 100 metres to over a 1000 metres deep.

I used to work on Rig 19 for Mitchells. Rig 19, a fancy name for a 1960's truck, was one of Australia's deepest mobile exploration drills; Down to 1000mtrs and we regularly were getting 'gas in coal seam' cores between 600 to 800mts. Choose anywhere along the upper half of the Newell Hwy.

 

When finished, we would plug the hole with concrete at levels dictated by the Geo's.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Bex there have been scammers out there that target the elderly with snake oil since Jesus was a boy.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Bex there have been scammers out there that target the elderly with snake oil since Jesus was a boy.

You mean the elderly who rely on gas and coal to keep their feet warm during winter?

 

Not sure where you're going with it FT but fossil fuels is our life and occasionally there's going to be bad consequences because of that - simple fact of modern, industrialised life. I don't like it either but I'm a selfish azzhole just like everybody else, just not a hypocrite.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I used to work on Rig 19 for Mitchells. Rig 19, a fancy name for a 1960's truck, was one of Australia's deepest mobile exploration drills; Down to 1000mtrs and we regularly were getting 'gas in coal seam' cores between 600 to 800mts. Choose anywhere along the upper half of the Newell Hwy.

When finished, we would plug the hole with concrete at levels dictated by the Geo's.

Thanks Bex, yup concrete is still used but haters are going to hate. What jacks me off is when false information is spread around. Like that clown from Tara who calls himself Frack man.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Bex there have been scammers out there that target the elderly with snake oil since Jesus was a boy.

Do you want power mate ? You live in Toowomba yeah ? If it wasn't for us, you would be typing in the dark. Just sayin.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Gazza all the gas you produce is going overseas.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Bex you will find the "global warming is a myth" is pretty much split by age, you have the older less educated, and those with vested interests believing half truths and younger better educated reading the science.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

a perfect example...

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Bex you will find the "global warming is a myth"

I will find it according to the facts, not knee jerk internet reactions or money grubbing bandwagoners thanks.

 

The Earth is warming, so says 600,000 years of ice core samples, but it's warming exactly in the cycle that it's supposed to be.

 

FWIW, the God of Global Warming Science, Svante August Arrhenius, said in a nutshell; "GW will be awesome, with the ever growing population, with up to an 8 degree increase over the next 200 years, we will have the capability to feed those people". He said that around 1900, look it up.

 

Here it is ...

 

"Although the sea, by absorbing carbonic acid, acts as a regulator of huge capacity, which takes up about five-sixths of the produced carbonic acid, we yet recognize that the slight percentage of carbonic acid in the atmosphere may by the advances of industry be changed to a noticeable degree in the course of a few centuries.

 

Since, now, warm ages have alternated with glacial periods, even after man appeared on the earth, we have to ask ourselves: Is it probable that we shall in the coming geological ages be visited by a new ice period that will drive us from our temperate countries into the hotter climates of Africa? There does not appear to be much ground for such an apprehension. The enormous combustion of coal by our industrial establishments suffices to increase the percentage of carbon dioxide in the air to a perceptible degree."

 

We often hear lamentations that the coal stored up in the earth is wasted by the present generation without any thought of the future, and we are terrified by the awful destruction of life and property which has followed the volcanic eruptions of our days. We may find a kind of consolation in the consideration that here, as in every other case, there is good mixed with the evil. By the influence of the increasing percentage of carbonic acid in the atmosphere, we may hope to enjoy ages with more equable and better climates, especially as regards the colder regions of the earth, ages when the earth will bring forth much more abundant crops than at present, for the benefit of rapidly propagating mankind."

 

Go argue with him.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You feel threatened, we get that

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...the God of Global Warming Science, Svante August Arrhenius...

Who? Never heard of him.

 

 

[octave]

Who? Never heard of him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svante_Arrhenius 1859 - 1927

 

so obviously cutting-edge research with the benefit of the latest satellite technology and knowledge - NOT

 

 

[bexrbetter]

so obviously cutting-edge research with the benefit of the latest satellite technology and knowledge - NOT

Are you serious?

 

Peers of that era were using calculations from centuries before that made satellites and computers even possible. The only thing satellites and computers have done is confirm their findings and made things a bit faster. A human being still has to do all the calculations at some point or do you think satellites and the software for them were left on Earth by Aliens?

 

The abacus is over 4000 years old and the slide rule was invented in the 1600's btw.

 

But anyway, if your stance is to null and void any information prior to satellites then you fail badly with GW because any reasonable person from either side will not deny for a moment that to prove it either way means historical evidence over a very long period, it's called "Science", and 50 years of satellite info just doesn't cut it at all.

 

sci·ence

 

(sī′əns)

 

n.

 

1. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

 

2. Such activities restricted to explaining a limited class of natural phenomena.

 

3. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.

 

4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.