Politics and Covid

[willedoo]

It's been an interesting journey. At the start of the pandemic we saw a lot of bi-partisan, luvvy duvvy, co-operative politics. Naturally, it would only be a matter of time before politics crept back into it. From the public's point of view, there would no doubt be some degree of split along political lines as to their rating of their respective state government's handling of it. For example, if you were a rusted on Labor voter, thinking and saying that the Federal Government has done a good job would be like getting teeth pulled, but many have conceded that point. To some degree, it can be seen in the press. The Murdoch press has generally been critical of Labor state government responses and apologetic for Scotty and Gladys. No surprises there.

 

All of the political leaders are in a position where they can't please everyone. They are all following the advice of their respective health authorities and some critics are saying they shouldn't be. On the other hand, if they were to go against the advice of the health authorities, many would see that almost as a criminal act. Between a rock and a hard place, so to speak.

 

It's also presented a big problem for opposition parties. Politics, the press and public thinking are dominated almost entirely by the pandemic, thus starving any other issue of oxygen. In a climate like this, it's very hard for an opposition to strike a blow. Here in Queensland it's particularly noticeable as we have a state election in October, and with only a matter of weeks to go, the opposition is getting a bit nervous. Since the beginning of the pandemic, the opposition has struggled to find oxygen on any issue. Bearing in mind that the last time the LNP opposition had an original thought it died of loneliness, about the only shot they've had in their locker is to criticize the Premier for indecision and dithering about reopening the borders. All the time she was following the advice of the state health authority, and if she hadn't, the opposition would have been slamming her for that. When the borders were reopened, the opposition leader, through gritted teeth, welcomed the decision but still banged on about it being the Premier's fault for being too late.

 

This was just before Victoria's second wave and the closing of the Queensland border to Victorians. The Victorian situation was a political gift and a 'told you so' moment for the Queensland Premier and rendered irrelevant any of the opposition's previously thin argument. So now, weeks out from an election, the opposition is wedged with nothing to say. Add to that the fact that in troubled times the electorate tends to stick with the status quo, and polling shows most Queenslanders supportive of the State Government's handling of the virus situation. The LNP could be up the creek without a paddle, and mostly because of the virus effect. It's not a done deal as the Queensland Government, like Scotty & Co., has a very slim margin, but my tip is a returned Labor government and a very p*ssed off opposition in October.

 

I would imagine federally, Albo & Co. are facing a similar dilemma. The virus as a major influence on politics might be here for at least another year or eighteen months, which for Labor, would take it uncomfortably close to the next election. From where we stand now, the pandemic might be the redeeming factor Scotty from marketing needed to advertise for another win.

Edited July 24, 2020 by willedoo

[old man emu]

I was going to start a thread - "I'm sick of COVID", but Willedoo has got in first, in a sort of way. He's been talking about the effect of the pandemic on political activity, but I would seek to widen the vision to say that COVID has killed off a wide range of newsworthy matters. 

 

Earlier this year, before COVID, we were rightly concerned about the bushfires and recovery from them. Heard anything about that lately? What about BREXIT. That is going to have a major effect on Australia's economy if our Minister for Trade acts promptly. What happened to the Royal Commission into Aged Care? There could not have been a better exposition of the poor state of care than the reasons proposed for the spread of the disease in aged care facilities.

 

One obvious benefit of COVID is that His Orangeness has been reined in from starting a war with someone, a thing that was on the cards with China, and anyone else who irked him. Still, we are being bombarded with his Tweets that any person with a modicum of sense can see the ignorance in them. Now he's embroiled the country into a new race war, which the ignorant in Australia believe is applicable here.

 

And what about the lighter side of life? Right now we should be deep in concussion about the fates of our favorite football team, or wondering how the 2020/21 cricket Test season will be. Those how follow the nags or puppies can only watch on their own TV. And how with the Bathurst 1000 be this year?

[pmccarthy]

We are in the midst of Covid distractions. I predict that Coonawarra, Coonamble and Coonabarabran will be targeted next. Stops us thinking about real politics.

[old man emu]

As long as it doesn't get into the grapes at Coonawarra.

[Marty_d]

I'm pretty much a rusted on Labor/Green voter (possibly no surprise there) but having said that, if I were in Andrew Wilkie's electorate I'd vote for him every time.

 

However ScoMo has done a surprisingly good job so far.  Trouble is you can see the party line starting to reappear.  Their solution for digging us out of this economic black hole caused by Covid is what?  Tax cuts and a "more flexible workforce" (code for cutting conditions and wages), oh and have more kids to grow the economy.

 

He's listened to the experts so far, he should continue to do so.  None of them recommend austerity as a solution, and giving tax cuts to people who'll bank the difference instead of spending it adds nothing to the economy.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Marty_d

[nomadpete]

Yep.

 

Our federal government has the answers....

 

Boost the economy by letting some other country dig bigger holes in our ground and tell the plebs to add to the overpopulation problem. (Was it Menzies whose mantra was 'populate or perish'? A bit out of date for 2020)

 

Deep thinkers, I think not.

[Marty_d]

That's conservatives for you - keep doing the same thing, no matter how out of date.

 

Hey I did my bit to help the local economy down your way tonight, stopped in at Huon's Little Treasure after work and bought some takeaway.  I love their seafood chowder!

  

[nomadpete]

Is your GPS broke? Miss the turnoff?

How'd you end up down here on the way home from the big smoke?

Last time I looked, Franklin was a long way past Aliens Rivulet.

Maybe you just followed your nose.

[Old Koreelah]

12 hours ago, Marty_d said:

... if I were in Andrew Wilkie's electorate I'd vote for him every time.

Me too. He suffers from much more decency than is good for his political career.

12 hours ago, Marty_d said:

However ScoMo has done a surprisingly good job so far.  Trouble is you can see the party line starting to reappear.  Their solution for digging us out of this economic black hole caused by Covid is what? ...

Marty you overlooked the real agenda of the LNP government: prop up their fossil- fuel cronies and reward Murdoch for his support; Now they've given Sky millions of our tax dollars to promote women's sport, while stripping even more funding from our National Broadcaster, which has been doing women's sport for decades.

 

[willedoo]

I think Murdoch should be congratulated for his ground breaking contribution to Australian culture. As far as I know, Sky is our first and only dedicated non stop comedy channel.

Edited July 25, 2020 by willedoo

[kgwilson]

The Pandemic was the best thing to happen to ScoMo. He was reeling from failures during the bushfire crisis and the Sports Rort among many things. Covid has allowed this at least for now to be put to the back of peoples minds so now he is supposedly doing a good job. Trying to get States and territories to cooperate though is like herding cats but that is just a product of our system. Generating the biggest debt we have ever had with no end in sight due to the latest 2nd wave isn't doing a very good job in my estimation. A focus on elimination rather than suppression would have had far less impact on the economy in the long run though ScoMo keeps denying this. Other Island nations have done it. Taiwan & NZ are 2 notable examples. NZ exports are now higher than they were pre covid & life is back to normal there (except tourism and border control).

 

Australian Governments have had this incessant fear of going in to recession though Covid has provided an excuse now. We were one of the few countries not to go into recession during the GFC when Kevin07 gave us all $900.00 but we have never been out of deficit since. NZ went into recession but was back in the black in 2 years & now after Covis still only has a 20% debt to GDP ratio. Ours is now over 40% and climbing rapidly. We also have the highest household debt in the world.

 

No not a good job in my opinion.

[Marty_d]

10 hours ago, nomadpete said:

Is your GPS broke? Miss the turnoff?

How'd you end up down here on the way home from the big smoke?

Last time I looked, Franklin was a long way past Aliens Rivulet.

Maybe you just followed your nose.

Followed my taste buds.  It's our favourite restaurant.  Only 25 minutes past the turnoff.

[Yenn]

Wasn't it Billy Hughes who said "Populate or perish" and the opposition leader when asked to comment said "Do as Billy says" and we have been doing it ever since.

Sco Mo and his mob are still spouting tax breaks and we know it is not for the poor people. I can't understand why in this time of government big spending he doesn't increase taxes. It would be the ideal time to put taxes up for the wealthy, those with a brain could see sense in it. He would rather increase the GST to 15%, but that hits the poor people harder. Sco Mo must think that Covid 19 is a godsend. It is the perfect reason for the government to not have a surplus and they were crowing about how financially competent they were for years.

There must be a few bulges in the carpet with all the stuff brushed under it. What happened to the fires? what happened to the sports rorts? why has nobody raised the problems with letting covid sick people into Australia by boat. Twice?

Queensland election in a few weeks and we look at the LNP. They have just had a spat between an ex leader who was an abject failure and the current leader, who doesn't always think before she opens her mouth. I have probably voted more for liberal than Labor over the years, I don't reckon Labor are all that good at handling money, but again Labor is looking good. Our premier who I don't always agree with has handled the Covid problem better than the NSW or Vic premiers. Unless something dramatic happens I reckon Labor will win.

[willedoo]

The Queensland border has been closed again with the blessing of most Queenslanders. Now the comedians in the LNP are getting up the Premier, saying she didn't establish strict enough protocols. This is the same bunch of dunderheads who strongly opposed the original border closing. As stated previously, if the Queensland LNP had an original thought it would die of loneliness. What a bunch of losers. 

[Marty_d]

I'm quite happy with the performance of our Premier, despite him being from the opposite side of the political divide.  Don't think I'm alone there either.  He's kept the border shut and does daily press briefings with no BS.  Poor bugger lives in the north of the state too so he must spend a lot of time away from home.

Of course, keeping the border shut is a bit easier than for the other states!

[nomadpete]

So far, so good.

 

[Marty_d]

Oh, I'm under no illusion that some f*ckwit won't come in with Covid and skip quarantine because they're bored.  It's just a matter of time.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Of course there will be people who try and sabotage any efforts. Some of them will be religious anti-vaxxers and some will be hoons. I would say good riddance to them all and just try to assist the smart people who want to protect themselves.

I asked an expert if you could be the only person in town to be without the virus. The answer was " yes, provided you don't live with a liar".

Why do we not hear stories about " how I caught the virus"?   My guess is that this would help the likes of me to avoid doing similar mistakes.

[octave]

21 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Why do we not hear stories about " how I caught the virus"?   My guess is that this would help the likes of me to avoid doing similar mistakes.

 

We do hear stories of how and where people contract the virus.   Daily numbers are broken down into categories of  "close contacts" or "casual contacts"  or the more worrisome cases where there are "no known contacts".  

 

 A news story this morning suggests that 80% of infections have been picked up in the workplace.

 

Workplace coronavirus transmission driving Victorian case numbers, including in aged care

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

So... were these people at the workplace taking precautions? Sorry that's not enough information...  and what of the other 20%?

[octave]

Just now, Bruce Tuncks said:

So... were these people at the workplace taking precautions? Sorry that's not enough information...  and what of the other 20%?

 

Let pose a question to you.  We know that meat processing workers higher rates of infection both here and throughout  the world.  It is not that meat workers are reckless or stupid people but it is the conditions in which they work.  Here is a short story on why meat workers at at a greater risk compared to some other occupations     

         https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/scientists-reveal-why-meat-processing-facilities-have-become-coronavirus-hotspots-c-1130859      .

Health workers , especially those who work in ICU  are unlikely to behave recklessly given their experience of the results of the most serious cases, but PPE is just not 100% effective.   Those workers at the moment who work in supermarkets can wash hands and wear masks but being in that environment for many hours everyday and given that masks only reduce the risk it is inevitable that sometimes infection will still happen.  

Sometimes good intelligent people make mistakes, perhaps take off their mask incorrectly or touch their face.   

 

So what about the 20%  of these some will have caught it through unknown vectors, we still don't even know everything about the ways it can be caught. It may be not enough information for you but the fact is that the cause of every case of infection cannot be known.    But let's say that half of those 20% are  reckless or stupid, I still don't quite understand what you are getting at, what point are you trying to make?  The figures suggest that the vast majority of people who get it are either in the workplace or in healthcare or are residents in aged care facilities.

 

I think the average person knows what foolish behaviour is and how to avoid infection.  Many people have no choice but to go to work and some of those workplaces just are risky.   The high rate of infection amongst health workers does not say anything about how well they follow procedures, it is just a risky environment. 

 

It may be comforting to think that only foolish people get it  but is so clearly and obviously false.

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

A big risk I got from reading the stuff was that low-paid will not take time off if they feel sick. This is a policy thing which they were slow to do in Australia, but I think that now you can get welfare quickly enough to live on if you do this and the employer is not allowed to victimize you.

But the main thing I get is that in some occupations, it is harder to avoid catching the virus than in others. What about retirees? surely we should be able to avoid catching it if we know the traps...  Like stay away from meatworkers and ICU workers. I'll add these to the one about not drinking with strangers in a pub.

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Part of my problem is that I don't even know any person who has the virus. It is all very theoretical to me.

[octave]

15 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

What about retirees? surely we should be able to avoid catching it if we know the traps..

I would say that is correct. There is pretty good information out there on reducing the risks. For example before this lockdown we ventured to our favourite cafe, we knew this cafe had a good order and delivery system and we sat outside. We avoid being inside with crowds of people. It is not rocket science for those who are not compelled to work in risky situations.  For most people there is no need to be anxious, just be aware of the principles of virus transmission  and adapt where necessary.  I am pretty cautious because I am in a susceptible demographic and having just reached a stage where I don't have the burden of needing to work I don't want throw it all away by not taking the situation seriously. It is not about being hysterical it is about knowledge and the knowledge is available.

 

 

My chance of getting is is extremely slim.  I count myself as being extremely privileged because I don't have to work and the work I choose to do is now done online. I get everything delivered, I use an app to pay for my petrol without going into the service station.  By contrast my sister is a primary school teacher in NSW. being around the 60 mark she faces a higher risk than her younger colleagues. She is concerned about the risk but has little choice. Earlier this year her house burnt down in the bushfires. Her choices are limited.              

 

 

17 minutes ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Part of my problem is that I don't even know any person who has the virus. It is all very theoretical to me.

 

Many things are like that, I don't personally know anyone with cancer but I do understand the statistics and the things I can do to lessen (but no totally eliminate) the chances of getting it.

[Jerry_Atrick]

@Bruce Tuncks, I know 3 people who have the virus; 2 of tthem are medical consultants at the local hospital (and next-door neighbours); and the other lost both parents to it (seet the other COVID thread).

 

Back to the original post..

Opposition parties may find it difficult to make headway in the current pandemic, but that may be because they are so pre-programmed, they can't adjust to a new world order.. So, would you really want to vote for them, anyway? That is not to say the incumbents are any better - they just happened not to be in opposition at the time the pandemic struck.

 

In times like this, what is commonly referred to as a "pivot" is required. I have had to do that with my business and while results have been slow, we are seeing some promising signs. But, I have had to think well outside the box to do that, and opposition parties will have to do the same.

 

For example, the common practice as opposition in politics is to criticise virtually everything announced by the sitting government. For some reason, this is perceived as being the right way to hold the sitting party to account and score points at elections. And it may well have worked in the past.. but these are new times.

 

Our psyche is wired to compete, and for us to compete, we must beat the other side.. In politics, this is to expose the other side as incompetent morons through ridicule and belittlement. However, as each opposition party has realised to do so with respect to the handling of the pandemic (including DA) would be committing political suicide, they have, as stated in the OP, been luvvy duvvy, albeit with a wrenched gut and through gritted teeth. But what if, instead of just being luvvy duvvy, they thought beyond the immediate response driven by the respective CHOs and proffered solutions to the knock on effects such as handling mental illness, low-income earners issues, etc; or improvements on what the sitting government would do.. Their PR machine would have to be working hard to ensure it was absolutely plain to the public that these improvements (hopefully well thought out) were their (the opposition's) idea so they get the credit for it.. If the outcome will be better (on a personal/economic cost-benefit basis), then it will be hard for the government not to implement.

 

Come election time, the message to the electorate would be the sitting government could come up with ideas that addressed the pandemic, but it took us, in times when the country needed us to, to co-operate with the government and provide the real ideas that went beyond simple handling of the pandemic to the things that needed to be put in place to handle the knock-on effects... And we rose to the occasion for you, the people of Australia (or the state concerned). [And this is what we provided and this is what it solved, as a result].. You see, mr/mrs public, in addition to what the government was prepared to do, which we would have done anyway, we were prepared to work out how to provide the extra bits that minimised long term side-effects - this is what we got the government to do and this is how it helped you...

 

And where the government didn't implement recommendations from the opposition, the opposition could claim at election time, working constructively with the government at a time when it was needed, but they didn't heed our advice and now look at the outcome.. the negatives that we were trying to stop have happened and you are all suffering as a result (despite being relatively well protected from the pandemic).

 

I am no PR person, but the positive message spun correctly will probably resonate far better than the negative BS pushed down our throats every day by the opposition. I watched part of the parliamentary committee investigation into Victoria's second wave.. The LNP (whether one or two parties) were asking such stupid and obviously politically motivated questions rather than trying to find the truth (which I guess DA tried to cover anyway), they just lost all credibility (unless you were a member or die-hard supported of that party). A bit like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYF08jJi9Hg

Edited August 26, 2020 by Jerry_Atrick