Political Correctness Rant

[Jerry_Atrick]

2 hours ago, red750 said:

turned it into an Indigenous Persons Day.

Interesting to see where you got that one from; No doubt mixing opinion with fact.

 

Would suggest reading this article: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-05-24/geelong-city-council-vote-to-overhaul-australia-day/102383706

 

"The city will also aim to deliver a formalised "First Nations peoples acknowledgement" and cultural events and activities to be held across the region each year on January 26, including a truth-telling ceremony at Johnstone Park."

 

which is part of a wider:

"Key actions resulting from the vote will include the city ceasing referring to the date as Australia Day, rescheduling citizenship ceremonies to different dates, advocating to the federal government "regarding a conversation about change the date", and developing education opportunities for residents to learn about the history of the date in a local context."

 

If this is accurate reporting, I don't see the harm in it. There was nothing in the article to rename the day Indigenous Persons' Day that I saw.. Maybe it was ommmitted. Anyway, the council doesn't have the powert to change the name anyway, even at a local level...

 

"Geelong council will permanently cease referring to January 26 as Australia Day, as part of a series of changes to how the city commemorates the contentious date." is not cancelling Australia day.

[red750]

Whatever it's called, it's all the same thing. I have nothing against aboriginals as individuals, just the same as I don't have anything against Indians, Asians, etc. I went to school with a few aboriginals, and they were black, not lily white like so many demanding special treatment these days. One of my brothers in law was part aboriginal. I just hate how we have to give up so much of our culture and acquiess to theirs. Why should I have to be welcomed to the country generations of my family were born in, at the drop of a hat?

[spacesailor]

I'll answer that.

With a million of Indian People on the news,& , sorry I have no idea the number of European people. And their Ancestors .

Are we Now, not allowed to had a celibation party,  on Any days that we thought important. 

No Native Australians in our MOB.

SO WE BECOME LOWER CLASS .& have No parties .

Just have to watch those WHITE  Native Australians  raiseing the dust .

spacesailor

[Old Koreelah]

22 minutes ago, red750 said:

I just hate how we have to give up so much of our culture and acquiess to theirs.

Good grief! What part of our culture have you been forced to give up?

22 minutes ago, red750 said:

Why should I have to be welcomed to the country generations of my family were born in, at the drop of a hat?

Don’t know anything about a hat being dropped, but what’s the harm in acknowledging the people who were here when our ancestors took this land?

[Old Koreelah]

Over the weekend my family was doing this to preserve a part of Australian culture that most of my countrymen never hear of: campdrafting, claimed to be the only sport to have originated in Australia.

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I believe AFL may well be another Aussie home grown sport... https://www.nma.gov.au/defining-moments/resources/australian-rules-football

 

Possibly isnpired by other sports, but truly home grown

 

(BTW, there are other reputable historical sites that dispute connections to the "motherland".. )

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

When i was in the US, there was this guy who was wearing a north melbourne tee shirt. I thought he was doing it in honor of us Australians, but that was wrong. He watched lots of cable-sport tv, and he reckoned that Australian rules was easily the best spectator sport there was.

I agree and can't understand why they watch that poofter game a lot in sydney. Gosh it is embarrassing how they stop lots to have a gang-bang, which they call a scrum.

[onetrack]

Quote

Don’t know anything about a hat being dropped, but what’s the harm in acknowledging the people who were here when our ancestors took this land?

Old K - Well, the problem is, the Indigenous Mob have made this exercise pretty much a compulsory event at any event from opening a door, and upwards.

And to rub a bit of salt into the wound, they have made it an excellent money-spinning exercise, with rather exorbitant charges for every time they show up, to hold this Welcome to Country.

It's like being forced to pay for a band to open every single one of your events, even though you dislike their music, and have no real need for it.

 

I'm thinking of initiating a "Welcome to Anglo-Saxon & White European Technology, that has Made Your Life so Much Better", introductory performance at every event where Indigenes gather.

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by onetrack

[nomadpete]

Shall we all  pledge 'I salute my smartphone' at these ceremonies?

[facthunter]

They should be grateful for the Utes they tear around in and the Grog and the rivers you can't drink from and the food that they want provided when the stores are flooded and roads washed away.. It's a mixed bag. Equal opportunity at BIRTH must prevail.  Nev

[nomadpete]

I am not in favor of 'entitlement due to parentage'.

 

As individuals, we each have to deal with the problems and circumstances of the day. There are current problems that should be addressed in terms of today, and looking forward to future outcomes. The future wellbeing of everone regardless of past events is more important than the past. 

 

So I don't expect the government nor anyone else to make special allowances based upon my ancestry.

 

And I feel this should apply equally to all of the population.

Edited May 25, 2023 by nomadpete

[red750]

Even their ancestors migrated here from Africa 65,000 years ago.

[facthunter]

Now if they were going to get access to Parliament like SANTOS, the Mining Industry Council and Australian Christian Lobby  HAD, that would really be something to worry about.

  65,000 years.. That's 10X the age of the universe according to some., Humans have only been around for about 300,000 years..Nev

Edited May 25, 2023 by facthunter

[Old Koreelah]

1 hour ago, nomadpete said:

I am not in favor of 'entitlement due to parentage'.

Most of us already have that special entitlement: we were born in the lucky country, were given an education and lots of opportunities. Some also inherited wealth built on very cheap land.
 

Those opportunities are still not available to many of our people, so Australia is trying to redress these historic disadvantages.

 

1 hour ago, nomadpete said:

 

As individuals, we each have to deal with the problems and circumstances of the day. There are current problems that should be addressed in terms of today, and looking forward to future outcomes. The future wellbeing of everone regardless of past events is more important than the past. 

 

So I don't expect the government nor anyone else to make special allowances based upon my ancestry.

I fully agree and that should apply to everyone…after some of the worst disadvantages have been corrected.
I’ll support any moves to establish a sunset clause to all special assistance, having seen too many disadvantaged people (Indigenous and others) squander the helping hand they have been given. 

[red750]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

65,000 years..

That's what the woman on The Voice advert says.

[facthunter]

That's about the figure that's usually bandied around.  Nev

[old man emu]

Yeah, but which mob have been her that long? They didn't all parachute into their "country" from above. Like everywhere else , they walked along across the good country to get to the better. The grass is always greener. I bet the Tasmanian Aborigines' DNA would show that they were more ancient than the Arnhem Land ones.

[facthunter]

TOO COLD down there and there's no Bear skins so they couldn't go bare skinned..  Nev

Edited May 25, 2023 by facthunter

[Bruce Tuncks]

I spent years saying that  the current abos had exterminated a previous wave, and this was proven by the difference between tasmanian abo dna and the mainland stuff. alas, this proved to be not true, the tasmanian stuff is indeed abo dna....  bugger, says I.

BUT   I sure object to being asked to pay for "stolen land". I NEVER got any real estate without paying the going rate.

[facthunter]

Tell the ones up near Thursday Island they can't use outboard motors to fish for Turtles IF they make a  lifestyle choice and still need White man 's medicine  for the  re-emerging TB that's a real problem there.. If we all live the way they say they want to there'd not be enough food. WE have stuffed up a lot of land though. It would really have been something before we arrived. I'm not great lover of covering the land with Cement and tar and hideous buildings all of which will have to come down someday.  Nev

[nomadpete]

7 hours ago, Old Koreelah said:

Those opportunities are still not available to many of our people, so Australia is trying to redress these historic disadvantages.

The suburb in which I grew up (and another in which I lived for years as an adult), would fit your description. Although you imply

that it only applies to indigenous camps, it also applies equally to many non indigenous locations. No attempts are being made to redress such inequality that I experienced as a non indigenous Australian.

 

I am simply in favour of equality. And I'm anti favouritism.

Edited May 25, 2023 by nomadpete

[Bruce Tuncks]

 I was a kid at yuendumu and we went out to get some roos with a bunch of blackfellows. They used Ford flat-tops and 303 rifles and we went out to a nearby watering-point. Even as a kid, I thought that this was not fair on the roos. The abos should have been restricted to traditional spears etc. The roos were cooked in a traditional way on a fire which was also used for a corroboree. Women were not invited, but they were not prevented from sitting at the back.

I reckon that traditional rights should go with traditional methods, otherwise we should have one set of rules no matter what  your race is.

[spacesailor]

Different laws for different ethnic groups .

Was tried in South Africa .

look what happened there ! .

Are we to go down the ' apartheid ' road .

segregate those wishing to be '' Native'' Australian , & the rest of us .

spacesailor

[Old Koreelah]

2 hours ago, nomadpete said:

Although you imply that it only applies to indigenous camps, it also applies equally to many non indigenous locations.

I wasn’t implying that, but you are quite right to say disadvantage is not confined to our indigenous people. 

2 hours ago, nomadpete said:

No attempts are being made to redress such inequality that I experienced as a non indigenous Australian.

Our Public Schools have been doing their best to lift every kid, no matter his background. Unfortunately, many parents don’t help much, giving little support to their kid’s schools. It’s appalling how many little kids haven’t seen a book before they start school. 
 

For years I worked with an Aboriginal Aide whose job it was to help redress those disadvantages among indig kids; like a lot of her mob, she helped ALL the kids, regardless of ethnicity.

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Warning, another one long, long of those mult-quote posts...

 

16 hours ago, facthunter said:

Now if they were going to get access to Parliament like SANTOS, the Mining Industry Council and Australian Christian Lobby  HAD, that would really be something to worry about.

  65,000 years.. That's 10X the age of the universe according to some., Humans have only been around for about 300,000 years..Nev

Actually, it is thought now to go back over 80,000 years : https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jul/19/dig-finds-evidence-of-aboriginal-habitation-up-to-80000-years-ago

 

Don't forget, that is as a continious culture (or set of cultures); not a civilisation wiped out and another coming to take its place.

 

 

9 hours ago, old man emu said:

Yeah, but which mob have been her that long? They didn't all parachute into their "country" from above. Like everywhere else , they walked along across the good country to get to the better. The grass is always greener. I bet the Tasmanian Aborigines' DNA would show that they were more ancient than the Arnhem Land ones.

Of course, Aboriginals were not here since the dawn of time - even human being time. But, they have been here as a single culture for, what, up to 320 times longer than anyone else (although I am guessing there have been permanent arrivals well before 1778). So, don't Aboriginals deserve to a) be an integral part of what is celebrated as part of being Australia; and b) have some sort of say what that celebration should be? Especially the bit before European settlement which, as Nev rightly points out, has led to the decomation of their enviornment, and I would add them as well.

 

8 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I spent years saying that  the current abos had exterminated a previous wave, and this was proven by the difference between tasmanian abo dna and the mainland stuff. alas, this proved to be not true, the tasmanian stuff is indeed abo dna....  bugger, says I.

BUT   I sure object to being asked to pay for "stolen land". I NEVER got any real estate without paying the going rate.

Who are "the current abos"?  There were over 250 separate mobs/Aboriginal countries before European settlement.  Now, how many are there (and in what numbers compared to before colonisation). Like Europeans, they traded, they migrated, and there was conflict. Let's ask how mnany Europeans have been killed in their wars versus Aboriginals in years gone by. What about how many genocides - Sanish Inquisition, anyone? Babylonians, Ottoman Empire? Yes, DNA in Tasmania is different to DNA on the mainland, but DNA between mobs on the mainland would be different in the same way, and in the same way that DNA in Europe, and the USA and other large geogrpahic areas would be.

 

I do agree if you bought your land at market price, you didn't steal it.. but follow the transactions back, and utlimately, that land was purchased from someone who did "steal" it, in the sense of the colonisation of Australia. In British (and Aussie) law, you would have to give the land back to its rightful owner. There was a case on the Gold Coast recently that, IIRC, resulted in a couple having to hand back the house they purchased to a woman who was scammed out of it. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-29/qld-gold-coast-couple-awarded-compensation-mortagee-fraud/102279932

Interestingly, the court ordered that the QLD government pay the couple the purchase price (or maybe it was the current value) of the house in what is effectively a reparation.

 

7 hours ago, nomadpete said:

The suburb in which I grew up (and another in which I lived for years as an adult), would fit your description. Although you imply

that it only applies to indigenous camps, it also applies equally to many non indigenous locations. No attempts are being made to redress such inequality that I experienced as a non indigenous Australian.

 

I am simply in favour of equality. And I'm anti favouritism.

And what about, for instance the Voice denies equality? Have we ever spoken about taking kids of non-Aboriginal families from their families en masse - even when the stealing of a generation was happening? Do we try and force upon non-Aboriginal people who have solcietal issues Aboriginal ways of doing things. If there is a modicum of truth of what is reported in the press, we are forever dealing with issues of people of other cultures in a culturally sensitive way; maybe because although they may not all be Christian, they largely hail from the Abrhamic religions or are from cultures that still have centuries of culture which is similar in terms of private ownership, sedttled boundaries, individualism, etc. But for some reason, we have failed to historically extend the same cultural sensitivity to Aboriginals; even here, we speak of they have never had it so good, etc etc.. but that is our view of what good is. As Nev says, we have all but destroyed the vast majority of their envcironment that supported their way of life and culture. They weren't starving before white man arrived.

 

6 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

 I was a kid at yuendumu and we went out to get some roos with a bunch of blackfellows. They used Ford flat-tops and 303 rifles and we went out to a nearby watering-point. Even as a kid, I thought that this was not fair on the roos. The abos should have been restricted to traditional spears etc. The roos were cooked in a traditional way on a fire which was also used for a corroboree. Women were not invited, but they were not prevented from sitting at the back.

I reckon that traditional rights should go with traditional methods, otherwise we should have one set of rules no matter what  your race is.

With respect to the bold, why? Who is to say their own technoligical progress was never going to move forward. Necessity is the mother of invention, and their imperatives were obviosuly differnt. But to deny them the opportunity to use tools they have at their disposal to do the hard work because it isn't traditional is sort of like saying, unless someone follows the bible religiously, they shouldn't  celebrate Christmas. At least they were cooking their catch traditionally, and also not killing just for the sport.

 

6 hours ago, spacesailor said:

Different laws for different ethnic groups .

Was tried in South Africa .

look what happened there ! .

Are we to go down the ' apartheid ' road .

segregate those wishing to be '' Native'' Australian , & the rest of us .

spacesailor

How are we segregating anyone? In fact, the attempt is to bring people closer together. Celebrating and understanding the culture of everyone (referring back to the Geelong council decision) surely must be bringing people together and reducing what can be called a shadow apartheid.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick