Political Correctness Rant

[Bruce Tuncks]

My daughter in law has a tee shirt which says " vegans kill more animals than carnivores" and she is correct if you consider a field-mouse to have a life.

When you change from rangeland to monoculture, you kill thousands of animals and prevent them returning as the habitat has been  changed.

[octave]

19 hours ago, red750 said:

This dumb b*tch in the North Sydney Council wants to ban all leather and fur items from Council properties, including footballs, basketballs, boots, cricket balls, etc., "out of respect for the animals"

 

My understanding (and I have read the documents)  North Sydney Council to ban kangaroo fur robes and hats if clarified motion passed was that she proposed (in a pretty sloppy way) an idea to be debated that was not sufficiently precise and that another councilors made the point that as written this would, taken to its logical conclusion, mean the banning of shoes and chairs and footballs.   The analogy I would draw is this. if I stand for parliament and I say recreational drugs should be legalized.  My opponent then says "crack cocaine is a recreational drug, Octave wants to give cocaine to preschoolers.  The o runs with this because the popular medias way of generating income is by generating outrage and therefore clicks and advertising dollars. 

 

As far as I can see the headline that councilor wants to ban football and shoes given available evidence is a bit of a stretch. 

 

Why do I care?   I think one of the biggest problems the world faces is the polarization opinions and the way this is exploited by politicians and the media.  No side of politics is immune from this. I have to make an effort to not go down the road of believing that conservative folks don't care about the sustainability of the earth or future generations. Likewise I have often been accused of only accepting the theory of climate change because I want to  destroy capitalism. I believe that these  extremes are actually quite rare.    

 

Do I agree with the councilors position, I don't know really but I think talking about it and debating it and then voting on it surely cant be a bad thing can it??????

 

How society operates has always evolved. To think that where we are now is the end of history is foolish.    

 

I have been privileged enough to work at something I love.   I have been a musician/music teacher my whole life.   I am not a pianist but this seems relevant.

 

Why was ivory used on old piano keys?

Ivory from elephant tusks was initially used for the white piano keys for its hardwearing and durable nature. It quickly became a symbol of wealth for not only its value but its aesthetic beauty when compared to the traditional wooden keys at the time. Ivory made instruments more elegant, and for pianists, it was noted for its ability to absorb perspiration from the fingers. This quality-made it much easier for pianists to play as there was a reduced chance of their fingers slipping.

However, the majority of western piano manufacturers discontinued their use of ivory on piano keys in the early 1970s as the ethical implications came to light. It wasn’t until 1989 that the remaining manufacturers in Asia and parts of Europe stopped using ivory after it was banned by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species.

 

 

 I am old enough to have known pianists who thought that moving away from slaughtering elephants was "woke" or what ever the equivalent was back then. I am not someone who believes that killing an animal is always wrong however I cannot see that the mayors prestige is enhanced by wearing the skin of a dead animal whether or not the animal would have been killed anyway. 

 

I have strayed away from the main point of of this post and that is more about the media outrage machine.   

 

Outrage is an easy tactic to draw an audience. There was a time when I listened to ultra conservative talkback radio  in order to feel the rage. Ultimately this leads to unhappiness. 

 

The media does not want to inform you they want to enrage you, that us their business model. The left and the right are equally culpable. 

 

My plea to you guys is that whatever your political leanings  (right or left) that you actually understand what it is that you opponent is saying.  The left in all likely hood does not want to tear down capitalism and the right probably does not want to impression gays.   Lets be more nuanced folks!) 

   Whether you think the councilors proposal is a dumb or not, isn't it part of democracy for an elected representative to take the concerns of his or her constituents to the council to be debated and accepted or rejected?  

 

 

Here is a link to a comedian talking about this subject. If you want to fully understand my opinion please watch this link 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

I really don't think anything should be wasted that can reasonably be used. Kangaroos breed prolifically like seabirds and then die horribly of lack of nutriment and water. Natural isn't always NICE. In fact it's usually anything but.   Nev

[spacesailor]

I thought ' footballs ' got rid of ' real leather ' ages ago, I only see kids kicking Plastic soccer & footballs around the parks

spacesailor

[octave]

3 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

When you change from rangeland to monoculture, you kill thousands of animals and prevent them returning as the habitat has been  changed.

 

Isn't grazing land for cattle also a monoculture?  

[old man emu]

44 minutes ago, octave said:

 

Isn't grazing land for cattle also a monoculture?  

No, because a good pasture is a mixture of various types of vegetation, which grazing animals will eat selectively, much the same was as humans eat different types of food during the day. Better production from grazing animals is achieved by replacing lower nutrient content foodstuffs with ones with higher nutrient levels. When this involves introducing new species such as better grasses and legumes, the process is called pasture improvement, but it would never be done by using a single species, which is what monoculture is.

 

I would not call grazing animals on stubble fields as a type of monoculture. Doing that simply takes a short term benefit from otherwise valueless material.

[octave]

5 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

y daughter in law has a tee shirt which says " vegans kill more animals than carnivores" and she is correct if you consider a field-mouse to have a life.

When you change from rangeland to monoculture, you kill thousands of animals and prevent them returning as the habitat has been  changed.

 

18 minutes ago, old man emu said:

No, because a good pasture is a mixture of various types of vegetation, which grazing animals will eat selectively,

 

My point was that clearing is forest for cattle or vegetables  equal,  Bruce mentioned field mice not thriving in a vege monoculture but I would suggest that land for cattle grazing would also not support the afore mentioned "field mouse"  

 

If we need to clear bush or forest is it more efficient to graze cattle or grow vegetables in terms of water?   

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by octave

[Jerry_Atrick]

And other resources, not to mention methane magic from cattle. However, Kangaroos apparently don't have that problem, so maybe, leave the land in reasonable condition and farm skippy!

 

 

Sadly, my information is a few years out of date: https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/11/05/kangaroo-farts-produce-methane-scientists-say

 

At least we don't have to clear the land to farm skippy.

[old man emu]

It seems sensible to use the animals that evolved to suit their environment rather than introduce animals that need to be coddled to deal with the environment while adversely affecting it at the same time.

 

Guess which mountains are in the background to this picture

This is a local business https://emulogic.com.au/ that has been raising of emus and the producing quality emu oil, feathers, meat, eggs and jerky since 1995. It has also been involved with research into Emu behavior, genetics and working with Australian Botanic Gardens Mount Annan seed bank in the germination of rare plant species by passing them through emus.

 

In Asian and the USA they raise species of Crocodilians. We raise yabby and barramundi commercially. And of course, we harvest the bounty of the Seas.

[nomadpete]

5 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

At least we don't have to clear the land to farm skippy.

Skippy has a generous hind quarter but the fore quarter won't feed a family.

 

But I guess it's not politically correct to admit that we are just another animal in the food chain, killing living things just to keep ourselves alive.

 

[nomadpete]

BTW. We have locally sourced wallaby meat down here and it is nice. (I don't even get the fur caught in my teeth!)

[red750]

I can't quite see anyone milking a kangaroo. (Now someone will come on here and say we already do.)

[onetrack]

I like the first answer below - just goes to show that some internet users still have a quick sense of humour, and are always prepared to take the mickey out of dumb Americans.

 

https://www.quora.com/Do-Aussies-drink-Kangaroo-milk

[red750]

One of the things I hate about soshul meja is the absolute rubbish that so many dumb Americans post. I am only on Facebook so I can communicate with friends and relatives around the country. Like this forum, one post reaches many. But these stupid Yanks get on there (FB, Twitter, Tik Tok, et al, which get shared on FB), and rubbish everything not American. They criticise the things we eat, the things we do, the names we call things, etc., and they criticise the way we spell words when it differs from the way America has butchered the English language. (Theatre/theater, centre/center, colour/color, maths/math, and so on), not realising that they are the ONLY ones who spell things THEIR way.

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, nomadpete said:

BTW. We have locally sourced wallaby meat down here and it is nice. (I don't even get the fur caught in my teeth!)

Hmmmm!

 

And how do you get that wallaby meat? Do you muff dive for it?

[Bruce Tuncks]

I wonder where vegans get their funny ideas from, including the one about meat sheep using a lot of water. Maybe they use the worst figures they can find, which would be feedlot cattle fed with irrigated crops. This has nothing to do with rangeland sheep . All the water here falls from the sky and very little runs off. It mostly goes to feed the grass or into the ground. There are lots of kangaroos and emus, plus foxes and hares and rabbits. Some animals did very well out of land clearing. There are more of these on the cleared land than in the scrub.

 

Actually, I have to say that I don't see many field-mice, maybe the snakes have eaten them. There are plenty of magpies, hundreds of white corellas, kookaburras, hawks, swallows and quite a few cockeys of various colours. And of course the red and yellow-tailed cockeys, for which we are the last refuge. This is just the dryland birds. On the wetland, we also have ducks, black swans, brolgas and ( I think ) ibis. Plus a lot of frogs, and yabbies in the dams.

 

And the sheep have a good life until they are killed, there is not much profit in unhealthy sheep. Would you choose the life of a sheep? Well it would be better than lots of wild animals which suffer from untreated parasites.

The suffering of innocent wild animals has been used as an argument against the existence of a benevolent god.

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I find it funny how militant vegans (or any other cause) are usually hypocritical. For example, the clothes they wear that can't contain animal products. But most clothes without animal products will be some form of polyester these days. Polyester ultimately comes from oil so not so good for the ecology and how many spils and accidents have cost countless animal lives? OK, they can wear cotton.. the water required for it is immense and in NSW, the water rights issued to cotton farmers have seen rivers drained from water for them and complete ecosystems downstream destroyed. Animals don't like that sort of thing..

 

The reality is every living thing consumes.. the trick is to do it sustainably and cleanly. 

[old man emu]

35 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

Polyester ultimately comes from oil

And oil comes from dead dinosaurs. Sinclair's advertising writers first had the idea to use dinosaurs in Sinclair marketing back in 1930. They were promoting lubricants refined from crude oil believed to have formed when dinosaurs roamed the earth.

[Marty_d]

1 hour ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

I find it funny how militant vegans (or any other cause) are usually hypocritical. For example, the clothes they wear that can't contain animal products. But most clothes without animal products will be some form of polyester these days. Polyester ultimately comes from oil so not so good for the ecology and how many spils and accidents have cost countless animal lives? OK, they can wear cotton.. the water required for it is immense and in NSW, the water rights issued to cotton farmers have seen rivers drained from water for them and complete ecosystems downstream destroyed. Animals don't like that sort of thing..

 

The reality is every living thing consumes.. the trick is to do it sustainably and cleanly. 

I note that some vegan protesters do their activism mostly naked.  Problem solved.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Eeew... Yeah one or two may be OK, but most of them would cause many instances of one species (homo sapiens) much pain by baring all.

[willedoo]

2 hours ago, old man emu said:

And oil comes from dead dinosaurs.

The only way you'll get oil from dinosaurs is to go to the toy shop, buy some little plastic ones and melt them down.

[Jerry_Atrick]

5 hours ago, old man emu said:

And oil comes from dead dinosaurs. 

I had never heard that one.. I was taught it was from plant matter.. 

https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/petroleum

 

[nomadpete]

Well, it is from USA.....

 

A pic of a dinosaur is closer to truth than a pic of an old bloke with a white beard, a shepherd's crook and a halo?

Edited January 12, 2023 by nomadpete

[old man emu]

5 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

I was taught it was from plant matter.. 

That is what we know after 125 years of quality geological research, but back in the early 20th Century that was not known. Also, the dinosaur source idea wasn't given to Sinclair Oil by scientists. The idea was thought up by Sinclair Oil's advertising department. The company began using an Apatosaurus (then called a Brontosaurus) in its advertising, sales promotions and product labels in 1930.

 

In February 1914, American vaudeville performer, Winsor McCay debuted “Gertie the Dinosaur” on the vaudeville circuit. Created from over 10,000 drawings, “Gertie” became an instant hit. It is often credited as being the first animation to feature a character with a distinct personality and as the first work of key frame animation. In his vaudeville act, McCay would walk onto the stage with a whip, calling out for Gertie. The cartoon started playing. McCay gave Gertie a series of commands, which she then performed in-screen. Fast forward to 4:00 and watch from there.

 

 

Gertie was what was then called a Brontosaurus, but later research resulted in the type being renamed Apatosaurus. 

The fossil displayed in the American Museum of Natural History, collected in the late 1890s, was the first sauropod dinosaur ever mounted. Museum preparators labored over the specimen for years before it went on view in 1905. That accounted for the public's awareness of these ancient giants, and made the use of this type of sauropod sensible because the public recognised the meaning of the image.

[willedoo]

Possibly what added to the myth is that the largest percentage of oil was formed in the era of the dinosaurs, around 54%.