Political Correctness Rant

[willedoo]

12 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

I had never heard that one.. I was taught it was from plant matter.. 

Mainly plant-like organic matter like algae, bacteria etc.. Plankton is the main source. Oil is easy to make; just wait for the dead plankton on the ocean floor to be covered by sediment, add a bit of geological movement, some heat and pressure, then sit back and wait for 20 million years, and hey presto - you have oil.

[old man emu]

On 12/01/2023 at 11:11 AM, red750 said:

can't quite see anyone milking a kangaroo.

Marsupials don't have an udder to store milk like placental mammals. Milk is secreted continuously, like sweat, which is logical since mammary glands are specialised sweat glands. 

[nomadpete]

1 hour ago, willedoo said:

wait for 20 million years, and hey presto - you have oil.

I have heard that gawd makes more oil as fast as we use it - which explains why oil exploration is always finding more of the stuff and we never reach that mythical 'peak oil' moment!

[willedoo]

6 hours ago, nomadpete said:

I have heard that gawd makes more oil as fast as we use it - which explains why oil exploration is always finding more of the stuff and we never reach that mythical 'peak oil' moment!

Pete, I assume either you're joking, or you heard that down at the pub. The only reason we are finding more oil is that we keep looking for it, and looking harder and smarter as time goes by. Data processing techniques are getting better all the time. That enables us to have a closer look at country that was previously passed over as being not productive enough. Recovery technology has come a long way as well. When I first started in the oil game forty odd years ago, 3D processing was virtually unheard of. The 2D work we did on regional prospects back then was only a step up from wildcatting when you compare it to the science today.

 

Most of the world's oil was a result of a particular set of circumstances that happened a long time ago. The planet is not cooking much new stuff, so what we see is what we get. At this stage, we've picked most of the low hanging fruit which is cheap enough to recover to make it viable. There's plenty more oil there that would be viable to recover if prices went to $200 per barrel or more. The Southern Ocean has heaps, but needs to be within 200klm or so from land so the platforms can be serviced by helicopters. By the time the further out oil becomes viable, we will probably have transitioned away from using a lot of oil. I recon in the future, a lot of it will stay in the ground.

[nomadpete]

Success! I got a bite! Forums get dull when there is no debate.

 

I was repeating a story that I had heard, sometimes spread by certain (misguided) christian groups. I am amazed at the stuff that some of these people choose to believe!

 

As an aside, but supporting your comment about the oil industry harvesting the easiest fields first, I had a grandfather who had a farm in north america. When the depression of the thirties hit, he burnt his last crop of wheat, and emigrated to Aust. He said the last straw was when oil was contaminating the back paddock. In the present market, that would be a money spinner but back in 1930, the demand was a small fraction of todays.

 

Now the oil companies are reverting to what used to be 'uneconomical' wells.

[willedoo]

That thing with Jed Clampett shooting his shotgun and springing an oil leak wasn't far from the truth in parts of the U.S. back in the days when the big oil finds were happening. In some places, there was thick oil seeping out of the ground. I think that might have been the case in the Middle East as well, many years ago.

 

 Speaking of the Middle East, I once knew a surveyor who had worked over there doing a seismic survey for oil and gas. He showed me a photo of one of the massive sand dunes they encountered on a daily basis. It made our big red look like a small speed bump. He took the photo at the bottom of the dune, looking up to the top, and the D9 on top of the dune looked like a matchbox toy. I recon that dune was probably 300' high at least. They were active dunes with no vegetation at all. He said they had a swag of D9's that would push lines five blades wide, and by the time the recording crew passed through the next day, the lines on the dunes had blown in to just a single lane in width.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Brent is one of the yard sticks and I don't see it hitting $200 soon:

 

Fuel prices at the pump are still sky high, although have come off.

 

Even gasoline futures have come off their reecent highs by a long way:

 

Someone's making an awful lot of money

 

 

[nomadpete]

Just another less obvious way that oil companies can profit from wars - even when they aren't fighting over the oil wells.

[facthunter]

Some crudes are better for Mineral lube oil base than others. Pennsylvanian oils were considered best. Synthetic oils are made from LNG.. Crude oil has about 7% sulphur content.  Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

About gender: I have never met a tranny, and everybody I know is either male or female. But in a population, apparently  you get people born exactly midway between genders. I'm sure this is so, and I for one have no desire to hurt them in any way. Nature has already done them harm, methinks.

But allowing for biological men to play women's sport is way too far a step for me to like.

True hermaphrodites constitute maybe 0.01% of the population I guess and surely we can look after them without losing the ability of girls to play sport fairly. Us lot on this site could think of a set of rules which would ensure this without being cruel to the rare but genuine "uncertain gender" person.

Apparently there have been top models who have thought they are female but who, on testing, have turned out to not be truly female...  they are sterile, for example. I saw a pic of one of these and she was tall and gorgeous. She looked like Elle, but it  was not her.

[Old Koreelah]

We live in a golden age of freedom, where anyone who is different has some chance of a normal life. In the last couple of years I’ve met a mature-aged bloke who turn up in women’s clobber- possibly his mother’s. After decades of hiding, he finally feels safe enough to trust a few blokes in our small town with his true identity and the rest of us don’t feel threatened by him.

[old man emu]

The local Jehovah Witnesses often set up a poster stand in the mall off the main street. They don't accost passers-by, but if a person wanted to hear what they have to say, then the person can go to them. The JWs are simply displaying their life preference. Since they are members of the community, I always give them a greeting and if I have time, might go and chat about the weather or current affairs. I believe that everyone has the right to their own lifestyle as long as that lifestyle does not cause injury in any way to others. 

 

As long as a person's lifestyle does not prevent them from contributing to society in a positive way, who cares? Those who would condemn another's lifestyle are deserving of having theirs condemned as well. Thoughts of glass houses and rocks.

[nomadpete]

I'm so egaletarian that I talk to Collingwood supporters.

Can't get much more tolerant than that!

[old man emu]

And if you were in Sydney, you'd chat with Sea Eagles fans.

[nomadpete]

They lock me up if I go around talking to lamp posts.

[facthunter]

People who live in Glass Castles shouldn't stow thrones.  Nev

[Marty_d]

13 hours ago, facthunter said:

People who live in Glass Castles shouldn't stow thrones.  Nev

And they should probably get changed in the basement. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

16 hours ago, nomadpete said:

I'm so egaletarian that I talk to Collingwood supporters.

Can't get much more tolerant than that!

You must be either a policeman, lawyer, judge, or prison/probation officer.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[old man emu]

Australian governments engage in torture! That's what the United Nations  Subcommittee on Prevention of Torture is telling the rest of the World.

 

The  Subcommittee on Prevention of Torture conducts visits and accesses information to check on crucial aspects of the Optional Protocol to the Convention against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (OPCAT), a treaty signed by the Australian government. In 2022, representatives of the subcommittee were denied access to visit places where people are detained. Those places include prisons and immigration detention centres. The State governments involved have not said why they denied access. Perhaps it was a COVID prevention thing.

 

Calling Australians torturers is drawing a long bow. "Torture" means the action or practice of inflicting severe pain or suffering on someone as a punishment or in order to force them to do or say something. Note the emphasis on "inflicting". Surveillance cameras in all areas of places of detention prevent custodians from inflicting physical pain. Suffering implies conscious endurance of pain or distress.

 

Deprivation of liberty by being detained in a location is not a pleasant experience. Even the socially accepted temporary detention by Police to undergo a random intoxication test is not pleasant. Taken to the extreme, being detain in ones journey by being stopped at roadworks is probably more unpleasant. But why are people deprived of their liberty and detained? 

 

BECAUSE THEY BROKE THE LAW.

Law-abiding people do not lose their liberty by being detained. Persons entering the country illegally are trying to buck the system. Australia has always been open to migration, despite the opinions of descendants of the very first migrants to the continent. However, modern practices demand that any country has to be selective in those it accepts. The selection criteria range from health issues, through skill levels to degree of criminal tendency. No country wants to let through its borders carriers of diseases not already present, or under control. No country struggling to educate and skill its existing population wants to add to its burden by admitting those who cannot immediately apply previously obtained skills. And no country wants to change the nature of its native criminality. (Note how the immigration of people from "knife cultures" has dramatically increased the number of stabbing incidents in Australia. The native-born larrikins of the early 20th Century did their damage with fence palings and bricks.)

 

So, to claim that australian governments engage in torture is another example of  political correctness gone mad. At least we provide detainees with good food; decent accommodation; clothing; health services; legal assistance and a hope of ending their detention. 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Good noticing OME. But I have to say that all I got from the report is that the UN needs some common-sense.

My take is that they were treated without any deference and they decided to get even...

Yes, we have problems but torturing is not one of them. Can you imagine how that could be kept quiet? I can't. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

OME.. on this one, I don't agree. Using the definition of torture proffered by yourself, it is " inflicting severe pain or suffering on someone as a punishment or in order to force them to do or say something." Of course, there are, at law, two terms that have to be explored in the above. The first - inflicting. At law, for there to be an offence, there has to be the actus reus (guilty act) and mens rea (guilty mind) - generally. Torture is a crime - if not directly, then through many of the offences against a person - battery (assault in Aus), GBH. I only bring up these concepts to illustrate that not only does the torture have to be committed, but those that commit it have to intend to commit it (or there is virtual certainty that what ever actions they carried out wouls result in torture). I think this can easily be proven based on the actions committed.

 

However, the other term, which will be much harder to define, as you state, is the term "severe". One would have to say that the term has to bear some relevance to the situation. Criminals can expect to have some form of consequence - that will depend on the circumstnaces. For example, locking a common shoplifter who is otherwise a model citizen in solitary confinement for a month would probably be defined as severe. However, a rapist who has an insatiable sexual and power appetite even against fellow prisoners and guards - the month may not seem so severe. Although, there is even a definitional problem here, as torture is not just physical, but also mental, so locking them up in solitary for a month as opposed to some other form of restraint may also be severe.. .but I am just tryuing to illustrate a point.

 

Generally speaking, the more serious the crime, the more serious the consequence (should be), the more serious the derprivation of liberty. A speeding fine deprives you of the liberty to use your cash resources they way you want to. A murder will deprive you the liberty of going where you want when you want, etc. And there are some behaviours in our society that are considered never appropriate - e.g. flogging, deprivation of necessities of life, sleep, etc, regardless of the crime.

 

So, "Because they broke the law" is not an excuse for severe punishment - at least relative to that crime. And it is arguable in some circumstances that they even broke the law. We haven't discussed this on the forums, but I can't help noticing the systemic torture of youths in youth detention centres from Tassie to WA.. Yes, some was committed by other inmates while the guards turned a blind eye, but it was, and appears still is condoned and not stopped by those who owe a duty of care to the prisoners. And it was also committed by guards and other officials. It was severe, it was performed as a punishment (and most likely at the entertainment of the committers), and it was systemic, even if it was not known by the dept execs (doubtful it wasn't). Was this not torture?

 

As for boat people - or refugeees. Australia is both a signatory and has adopted into law (Immigation Acts) the International Convention of Refugees. Under Australian law, anyone entering the country howsoever, and claims assylum has not entered the country illegally. The (usually right wing) press that claim they are illegal immigrants are lying.. I say this because they are not merely ignorant. Therefore, they are not criminals! Once their case is processed, if they are denied assylum, then they are (or should be) deported. If they abscond and stay, they are then criminals.

 

Australia under Howard was (and still is) as sneaky as the Texas governor who got around Roe v Wade for anti-abortion laws. Australia sends the navy out to intercept them in international waters and tow them to whoever they have an agreement with. As they are in international waters, they have not entered the territory and Australia does not have to receive an assylum claim. Although, my knowledge in this area is limited. However, they are towed to Manus or Christmas islands, or Nauru or wherever, where they are still not criminals, and are locked up, never have their applications processed (at this point, Australia is breaking their own law, as I understand) and suffer mental and physcial punishment.. torture since until their applications are processed, they are not criminals. And one cannot argue the conditions are not severe; and it is a punishment for trying to get to Aus.. a punishment used as an example to others.

 

Ahh.. but they are not in Aus, therefore Aus has no responsibility? Well, not quite, because under the convention, an Assylum seeker who attempts to reach and make a claim in a country , but is thwarted, can still make a claim for another country or territory to the one they were intending to claim from. There are many reasons for this.. the main one being, if for some reason, they are thwarted on their way and end up in a country that is sympathetic to the country they are fleeing, or at least not compatible with the culture of the people fleeing (i.e. are also discriminatory in some way).

 

But, even on Australian land, assylum claimants are locked up. They are not at this stage illegal immigrants, and for them, the Parkville hotel prisoners were finally let go thanks to Djokovic because of the conditions he managed to show the world when he was locked up not having committed a crime - he was originally let into the country legally. The conditions were horrid, and these people were locked in them for years without many exercise rights, with oittle food and insanitary conditions -  which can be severe punishment through mental abuse.

 

Also, in our prisons, I am not so certain there isn't systemic abuse/punishment for minor transgressions, particualry for different types of prisoners - especically those with mental conditions that are harder to manage.

 

The Australian/state governments denied access and gave no reason. The inspectors may or may not have had hard evidence on what they were looking for. But look around you. There is torture in Australia. It goes on every day. Saying someone committed a crime is not an excuse.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by Jerry_Atrick

[old man emu]

Some of the procedures that they called "torture" involved the use of "spit hoods". They are simply a mesh hood that prevents an arsehole from spitting at you.

  

 

Spitting on someone has long been a sign of hatred. "I wouldn't spit on him if he was on fire".  Nowadays, who knows what communicable diseases a detained person is carrying. Early in my policing career I had to get immunised against Hepatitis. We have always had the flu floating around and now we have COVID. With the influx of refugees, i believe that tuberculosis is returning after we managed to control it in the 50s and 60's.

 

If some arsehole spits on you, it is an assault, but if its a constable who has been spat upon, the Courts seem to think that it's a trivial matter - part of the joys of the job. 

 

[octave]

I have always wondered with the spit hood if there is a better solution. My dentist wears a visor to avoid ingesting particles of saliva.  The fastening of something around some ones neck whether tight or loose especially when that person is restrained may be counter productive. 

[onetrack]

I don't really know what you do with juvenile offenders who have no understanding of normal social behaviour. These little thugs are totally uncontrollable, they obey no instructions, no laws, and want to set the pace on their terms, at all times.

 

They lock them up, they simply trash and burn every facility given to them. You ought to see the unbelievable level of damage to the juvenile detention facilities here in W.A. (Banksi Hill).

So, after totally destroying Banksia Hill via outright violent trashing and smashing everything in sight - then setting fire to it - thus making Banksia Hill totally unusable - the prison authorities transfer the juveniles to the adult prison at Casuarina, where the facilities and prisoners are more tightly controlled.

So that brings out wails and cries from all the bleeding hearts, telling us that this is Nazi treatment and torture of prisoners, and children should never be in an adult jail.

But the bleeding hearts really need to to be taken to the facilities to see the animal-like behaviour of these thugs. They are only intent on massive damage and destruction and theft and assault, every waking minute of their day (or night, as most prefer to operate at night).

 

They spit on guards and police at every opportunity, they refuse to follow any orders, generally having to be bodily handled to get them to do even basic things. They throw faeces at warders and police at every opportunity. Little wonder the warders and police have little time for them. It's obvious even the authorities are at a loss as to how to control them, and where to start on any rehabilitation of them.

[old man emu]

1 minute ago, octave said:

have always wondered with the spit hood if there is a better solution.

You must have been writing this while I was posting mine to include pictures. As you can see, a spit hood is very similar to an insect hood. It's not anything like a sugar bag.