Atheist knowledge

[M61A1]

I've been thinking maybe I should take it (religion) up.

Instead of sitting there in an argument trying to get someone to be reasonable, balanced, and understand that sometimes we need to make concessions to reality over idealism to actually achieve anything, I could just sit there and vigorously nod my head in agreement. I don't even need to understand why I agree.

 

Sure sounds a heck of a lot less trouble!

 

Check the Urban Dictionary....."pigeon Chess"

 

 

[turboplanner]

Pideon Chess came from someone who lost arguments with creationalists.

 

Creationalists refer to what they read in the Bible.

 

The Bible was written by many people, some who knew their history, where their words correlate with written tablets from the time they are writing about, to sex fiends and people who appear to have been on the biblical equivalent of grass.

 

The Bible is not mandated as a sole Reference Book, or sole Book of Rules.

 

So atheist knowledge is not necessarily going to be increased by reading the Bible, particularly the juicy stories clearly written by fruit loops of old.

 

I've said I've found references to belief in God which go back 30,000 years, and I haven't found much interest from anyone in doing any research on that far back, or further so far.

 

 

[facthunter]

The more research you do will only establish the universal tendency for all races to find a god to worship. Not a lot of records go back that far but you can get info from excavations etc. Your research will also prove the world/universe is very old. Light is reaching us from places that go far back in time. I will trust science over books written by humans about beliefs generally. Humans tend to make the facts they believe in suit "their" purposes, and what a great way to control a population. Just fill their heads with stuff when they are young and susceptible and many will kill to obey the interpretations of their "Faith". The Non faith of atheism doesn't command anyone to kill another human, because there is no such thing. If people do it they have some other faith to serve, or use as an excuse for behaving badly. Nev

 

 

[M61A1]

Yes Turbo, most of us are aware of that people have had some form of god/s for much longer than the bible existed.

 

It doesn't make the existence of an actual god any more or less real.

 

I think the "Pigeon Chess" has gone right over your head, or I am playing chess with a pigeon now.

 

 

[Marty_d]

... who lost arguments with creationalists (sic)...

That assumes a creationist could win the argument. If they accepted that evidence and logic was an essential part of it, they cannot win.

 

I've said I've found references to belief in God which go back 30,000 years

Only to be expected. Without science there is a void of understanding which will naturally be filled with a belief in the supernatural. And the laziest assumption is that there's a deity who made everything and controls everything.

 

 

[M61A1]

And this is for Gnu....

 

 

Says it well.

 

 

[turboplanner]

He is a comedian though

 

 

[facthunter]

And most of them are very intelligent, and across topical issues. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

And they work very hard, and many of them suffer from depression

 

 

[eightyknots]

He is a comedian though

And comedians do their job for the very reason that some people such as Ron L Hubbard started a religion: for money.

 

And they work very hard, and many of them suffer from depression

Absolutely. Comedians have been over-represented amongst the 'depressed' for many decades.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I've said I've found references to belief in God which go back 30,000 years,

Gods, plural.

 

Not surprising back then due to ignorance, no excuse for it now.

 

We know El Nino causes big rains and floods, not an angry God.

 

 

[facthunter]

Too many for co-incidence. May be there is a commonality in type of personality. It's an intense thing to do well. Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

Comedians doing what they do for money doesn't make them any different from anyone else. Most people work for the money, not the pleasure of it. Piloting can be getting paid to do what you would pay to do. That's why the Airline managers want you to work for nothing, and that's not funny, and could make you depressed. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Gods, plural.Well an atheist doesn't believe in God or Gods, but multiple gods don't get much of a run on the 30,000 year time scale, more of a side issue belief now and again in some civilisations.

[bexrbetter]

Too many for co-incidence.

Irrelevant, a comment based on modern demographics and geographics. We are talking groups of humans numbering in the thousands within reach of each other and it only takes a few nutcases back then to take control and install fear, look what happens today with millions of supposedly intelligent educated people in the face of science.

 

Well an atheist doesn't believe in God or Gods,

Irrelevant, we are talking about history, not personal beliefs.

 

but multiple gods don't get much of a run on the 30,000 year time scale, more of a side issue belief now and again in some civilisations.

 

Once again you stop just short of saying something of greatness from atop a plinth, it's been common throughout this thread for you.

 

What is it, you part of a some small cult that only has all the true answers? Are you an Alien? Lizardperson? Is the belief that you "Know" the foundation of your supercilious'ness? (or super sillyness ).

 

 

[turboplanner]

No, I'm a student.

 

(And yes I know Octave, but I've had so much workload since October it feels like I've been in a washing machine.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Actually I think comedians are generally in it, not for the money (precious little of that when they start out, and damn few of them achieve superstar status) - but because they have an ability and the wish to use it. Most of them are highly intelligent, sensitive, and yes - many of them suffer from depression.

 

It'd be interesting to see the breakdown of religious beliefs among the most successful comedians. Willing to bet there wouldn't be a creationist among them.

 

 

[facthunter]

I have a suspicion Dave Allen was an atheist. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

There are a lot more atheists than there appear to be, because its often bad for your career to "come out".

 

I was once told by a retired intensive-care nurse, who had looked after several priests as they were dying, that none of them actually believed their stuff. She said that they would put on a front for their family and visitors, but they eventually became honest with their every-day nurses.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

There are a lot more atheists than there appear to be, because its often bad for your career to "come out".

I have never personally found that in Australia although it most certainly applies to may countries and mid West America.

 

 

[Bruce]

I know one personally. He resigned first though.

 

This guy had been to a seminary to become a priest but he resigned because he didn't believe.

 

Bex, what if your career was being a priest? Would coming out as an atheist help or not?

 

 

[PA.]

So comfortable, it feels like walking on water.

 

[ATTACH]47846._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[Litespeed]

I heartily agree with you Bruce.

 

A lot of areas in Australia's workforce are actively discriminatory to atheists and career progression.

 

Almost all non governmental schools are religious based

 

The majority of community welfare and disability providers are religious based

 

A lot of private health providers are religious based

 

The police force still has a dominant religious basis for senior promotion and for prosecutions of certain crimes.

 

Certain areas of the armed forces - non Christians have low prospects of promotion.

 

Any employee of Sanitarium foods ( a untaxed arm of the Seven day Adventists)

 

Some is absolutely blatant such as the legal right of religious organisations to sack you for not meeting their "moral" code even if you are just a cleaner. Legislation exempts them from normal employment rules.

 

Others are behind the scenes and never disclosed, but just as dominant.

 

We are far from a fair go for all in Australia.

 

If you are a atheist, female and not white, you really are doomed in some professions.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I think you guys move in the wrong circles, I have come across very few people with serious religion in my lifetime. Many will say they are Christian, Anglican or Catholic but that's because their family generations have been and so they will state it, doesn't mean they are literal to it. The only religion they have was what was forced into them as kids, doesn't count in my mind.

 

Case in point is my Swedish Mate who absolutely believes in Thor and related mythologies, and at the same time tells you of course they are just "Fantastic nonsense" but he admits they are ingrained into him. He doesn't have any belief at all in (Christian) God or Jesus etc, because he parents never mentioned it.

 

Almost all non governmental schools are religious based

When I put my 3 Children into Trinitys College I told them flat out we had no beliefs, maybe the prospect of 3 lots of money made that quite ok - or they saw fresh blood, lol. Possibly because they also knew my middle Daughter had beaten them twice in "Tournament Of The Minds" inter-school competition on her old school team and wanted her for their team (and she was selected)!

 

I have told a couple of people whom I've worked with to stick it up their backsides when they have started preaching to me, I won't suffer that uncomfortable feeling that others often tolerate when they start up in your face.

 

 

[turboplanner]

A lot of areas in Australia's workforce are actively discriminatory to atheists and career progression.

It's illegal to discriminate against someone on religious grounds, illegal to even ask them in an interview, but a lot of atheists are so in your face every hour of every day taking every opportunity to ridicule believers, attack the Bible, tell people they are wasting their time going to church, that they shouldn't be surprised if they are quietly shifted to the side. Much earlier in this thread I quoted the Collins New English Dictionary definition of an Atheist as "one who denies the existence of God." Don loudly proclaimed I had the wrong dictionary, but many of the shrill posts in this thread match that description.

 

Almost all non governmental schools are religious based

with an anti-God drive many atheists also drift to the left into the socialist camp, and we have a couple of prominent examples posting here. Ever seen a socialist organise funds to build a school?

 

The majority of community welfare and disability providers are religious based

that is because people who believe in God and particularly who read the Bible get a message that it is essential to look after those worse off than you. There's nothing really stopping atheists doing the same.

 

A lot of private health providers are religious based

the religious based ones were founded on the good neighbour principle I mentioned above

 

The police force still has a dominant religious basis for senior promotion and for prosecutions of certain crimes.

See the first answer; police forces are notoriously political, so this is not surprising, yet is surprising given that they see some of the most horrific things people ever see, but from a sociological point of view there's nothing to prevent the situation oscillating the atheist way and back again over time.

 

Certain areas of the armed forces - non Christians have low prospects of promotion.

Same reasons, atheists have a way of getting up your nose with their constant denials, and people don't like it so they just close ranks.

 

Any employee of Sanitarium foods ( a untaxed arm of the Seven day Adventists)

If SDA start a business to fund themselves there's nothing wrong with staffing it internally.

 

Some is absolutely blatant such as the legal right of religious organisations to sack you for not meeting their "moral" code even if you are just a cleaner. Legislation exempts them from normal employment rules.

I think anti-discrimination laws took care of that, any examples of any such legislation?

 

Others are behind the scenes and never disclosed, but just as dominant.

If they are behind the scenes, how do you know?

 

We are far from a fair go for all in Australia.

If you are a atheist, female and not white, you really are doomed in some professions.

 

Many of those are doing just fine, but it's not uncommon for unshaven, long haired, loud mouths with rings through their ears to find common ground with employers, and they usually rationalise that in their own way, particularly if its happened eight or nine times in a row.