Atheist knowledge

[facthunter]

Great minds think alike. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

The most amazing thing about the ancient Egyptians is that they never sent an army up the Nile to discover its source. Not in thousands of years as the world superpower.

 

I reckon the priests didn't want any facts to disagree with their interpretation of the world.

 

The source of the Nile wasn't discovered until Dr Livingstone days.

 

 

[Bruce]

Turbs, there was a con-man ( Von Daniken) who was in jail when he wrote stuff like how inexplicable the pyramids were. They are not that good at all, for example each level is tilted away from the prevailing wind because they flooded each level and chipped off the sticking-out bits. I could go on but you get the idea I hope.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Von Daniken's idea was that aliens visited earth. He was quickly sorted out.

 

Tell us about this flooding of levels.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The most amazing thing about the ancient Egyptians is that they never sent an army up the Nile to discover its source....

You may be right Bruce, but how can you be sure they never did? There is some evidence for quite extensive exploration by ancient peoples. Any discoveries may have been kept secret or records lost over the eons.

 

 

[Bruce]

After they built a level, they plugged the gaps with clay and built a little clay wall around the perimeter. Traces of the clay are still there. Then they poured in the water and this made a perfect level surface as a guide, well except for the wind.

 

Their astronomy was similarly very simple. I can tell you how they did the north-south thing if you want.

 

 

[Bruce]

Yes Old Koreelah, you could well be right.

 

There is not much difference between not going and keeping it all secret though is there? Good thing for us Captain Cook didn't keep it all secret huh.

 

 

[octave]

as far as the precision of alignment goes, this is quite interesting https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn174-pyramid-precision/

 

the link posted by turbs http://transmissionsmedia.com/the-inexplicable-precision-in-the-construction-of-the-great-pyramid-at-giza/ apparently is an exerpt from a book called “Fingerprints of the Gods” by Graham Hancock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fingerprints_of_the_Gods . The agenda is in the name!

 

The thrust of the book seems to be amazing technology, engineering and science therefore god (or aliens)

 

 

 

[turboplanner]

After they built a level, they plugged the gaps with clay and built a little clay wall around the perimeter. Traces of the clay are still there. Then they poured in the water and this made a perfect level surface as a guide, well except for the wind.Their astronomy was similarly very simple. I can tell you how they did the north-south thing if you want.

The level method makes sense; north south would be interesting because of th accuracy of the result.

 

 

[Bruce]

The north-south thing was done by using the water trick to build a very level-top on an approximate east-west wall.

 

Then you set up a sight point ( a pinhole) well to the south ( in the northern hemisphere ) of the wall and wait for a star to appear (rise) above the wall. Mark the wall where you see the star rise above it. Then mark again when the same star sets . Any star will do as long as it rises and sets while its dark.

 

A line from your sight-point to the mid-point of the rise and set marks is north-south.

 

Then you can build another wall more accurately east-west and go again. With a long wall, you can finish as accurate as any modern instruments. And they had unlimited time and manpower.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The north-south thing was done by using the water trick to build a very level-top on an approximate east-west wall.Then you set up a sight point ( a pinhole) well to the south ( in the northern hemisphere ) of the wall and wait for a star to appear (rise) above the wall. Mark the wall where you see the star rise above it. Then mark again when the same star sets . Any star will do as long as it rises and sets while its dark.

 

A line from your sight-point to the mid-point of the rise and set marks is north-south.

 

Then you can build another wall more accurately east-west and go again. With a long wall, you can finish as accurate as any modern instruments. And they had unlimited time and manpower.

I'm not sure though that you could go from that sighting as a datum, and lay out the wall to an accuracy of only an average 0.015% deviation from true. Remember, that's only 3 minutes of arc, and there are sixty minutes in a degree, and the naked eye has trouble getting down to one degree.

 

There are hundreds of mounds throughout Britain which were built with water levels and notch points, as well as many "notch points" usually a "V" where two hills met, which were used for star sightings for calendars - the original watch.

 

 

[Bruce]

Turbs, at a distance of 50 metres, ONE minute of arc gives about 14mm along the wall.

 

I reckon you could mark where a star rose to an accuracy of 2mm , maybe less if you had many nights to do it.

 

You would use a bit of clay to attach a vertical pin and then wait to see if this eclipsed the rising star, looking through your fixed pinhole.

 

The potential accuracy of this is way better than 1 min of arc.

 

One min of arc is not impressive, the theodolites I learned on in engineering school in the 1960's went to 10 seconds of arc. A star visibly moved when sighted through the telescope and you hit a stopwatch when it eclipsed behind the crosshairs. You could then calculate your position to about 100m accuracy. I wonder where those theodolites are now, all useless antiques these days.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Sounds good.

 

The next question is getting those big blocks up the near 45 degree slopes. The ramps don't stack up for the reasons outlines in the above links.

 

Someone suggested a simple wooden cross structure was used to roll the blocks up the slope, with men pulling a rope down the opposite side. That made a bit of sense to me, because it would be basically similar to the way we used to hook hay bales up into stacks.

 

I spend an afternoon doing various CAD simulations, but couldn't make that work.

 

If you solve the blocks issue (weights up to 10 tonnes), there's then the matter of how the 85 tonne tuned ashlars were raised all the way up to the roof of what's called the King's Chamber, now suspected to be a mechanical chanber.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...One min of arc is not impressive, the theodolites I learned on in engineering school in the 1960's went to 10 seconds of arc...

There were some astoundingly accurate measurements done by the likes of James Cook, but the most amazing feat was the British Survey of India, starting late in Cook's century.

 

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3407500201.html

 

http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-content/file/wildest-edu-measuring-everest-9-12-cb1278702831.pdf

 

...I wonder where those theodolites are now, all useless antiques these days.

Any civilisation which discards its old technology (and the skills to use them) is stupid. Most of us today would be lost without our smartphones.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Turbs, at a distance of 50 metres, ONE minute of arc gives about 14mm along the wall.I reckon you could mark where a star rose to an accuracy of 2mm , maybe less if you had many nights to do it.

 

You would use a bit of clay to attach a vertical pin and then wait to see if this eclipsed the rising star, looking through your fixed pinhole.

 

The potential accuracy of this is way better than 1 min of arc.

 

One min of arc is not impressive, the theodolites I learned on in engineering school in the 1960's went to 10 seconds of arc. A star visibly moved when sighted through the telescope and you hit a stopwatch when it eclipsed behind the crosshairs. You could then calculate your position to about 100m accuracy. I wonder where those theodolites are now, all useless antiques these days. [/QUOTE]

 

They won't be useless if they're looked after. Hopefully good examples of these theodolites are kept in a safe place along with a very good explanation how to use them. The reason why there is so much speculation about the construction of the pyramids is that whatever the Egyptians' instruments were have been discarded (or lost) which keeps everyone wondering. In a few centuries time, people can look back and explain former surveying techniques by the use of these (stored) theodolites.

[Bruce]

Yes Old Koreelah, the survey of India was so good it led to the discovery of continental drift. The Himalayas had an effect on the spirit level bubbles in those theodolites. As you say, an amazingly accurate survey.

 

And Captain Cook was a brilliant man, he was a hundred years ahead of his time in understanding of nutrition and he could work out longitude without a clock.... wow.

 

 

[hihosland]

Perhaps a couple of these could have reduced this thread to less than a dozen posts

 

http://www.youtube.com/embed/z9pD_UK6vGU

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Perhaps a couple of these could have reduced this thread to less than a dozen postshttp://www.youtube.com/embed/z9pD_UK6vGU

Wish I'd known about this pill years ago; could have saved me a bunch of angst!

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Back to post 1 . . .

 

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[eightyknots]

How about, "the fool has said in his heart: There is no God" Psalm 14 verse 1?

 

 

[Marty_d]

How about, "the fool has said in his heart: There is no God" Psalm 14 verse 1?

I'm guessing it was written by some dude who thinks there is. Probably should read

 

"The person who thinks for themselves and considers the available scientific evidence, from cosmology to biology, has said in his heart: I cannot find any proof of the existence of god, and no reason for it. However as extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, if you provide such evidence I will happily reconsider my stance."

 

 

[Bruce]

Which god are you referring to eighty?

 

 

[DonRamsay]

You have to love the foresight, tolerance and scientific wisdom of the Bible. I can remember left handed children being caned for using their left hand to do anything especially writing. In the 1960s, Graduate Teachers were ordered not to use their left hand when writing on the blackboard. Read that again not 1860s but 1960s.

 

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[DonRamsay]

Of course the derivation of the word Sinister is from the term for the left-hand.

 

No wonder they don't like homosexuals and won't accept that it is not a choice. If you look at the reported biography of JC in the New Testament, he was a soft and gentle person who loved his mum and who only hung around with men apart from the token fag hag. I wonder if he liked romantic, musical comedy? Could he have been both happy and gay?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Of course the derivation of the word Sinister is from the term for the left-hand...

Quite a few religious edicts seem to be based on what were common sense health concerns centuries ago; shellfish, cross-contamination of foods, and fear of catching diseases from pigs, which are so similar to humans (that one's a bit of a challenge to Darwinism). Throughout the old world, before modern cutlery, it was common for people to eat food out of a communal bowl with the right hand: the left one was reserved for wiping your ar$e.

 

Lots of people haven't progressed very far since then.