Atheist knowledge

[facthunter]

The most common version is exclusively printed by Rupert too. ( Harper and Collins). Didn't the Son say "you have made my Father's House a den of Thieves", and turn a few tables over. Good stuff . Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

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[Litespeed]

Well if there is a god, then at least he has a sense of humour and chose to smite those that seek to make money from him.

 

about bloody time- if only he would keep it up .

 

 

[hihosland]

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

 

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

 

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

 

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

 

Epicurus had it figured out a couple of millenia ago

 

 

[pmccarthy]

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Fake but funny

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Reminds me of the old "Mad Magazine" that I loved as a young teenager.

 

They had this section called "Scenes we'd like to see".

 

 

[DonRamsay]

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

 

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

 

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

 

Epicurus had it figured out a couple of millennia ago

I made the obvious mistake of looking up the christian response to the flawless knowledge of Epicurus.

 

It could be described as nonsense or ludicrous but in the end I settled on "sad".

 

Essentially the answers go like this:

 

Willing but not able? therefore not all powerful?

 

Christian Response: Is able because it says so in the Bible (Eph. 1:11)

 

Able but not willing? therefore malevolent

 

Christian Response:

 

• This argument presupposes that God should prevent evil and that evil should be prevented by anyone with the power to do so.
   
  
• Questions the moral absolute that evil should be prevented.
   
  
• Asserts the catch all "God works in mysterious ways and just because we don't understand the workings of a super intellect" we should not question it.
   
  
• By allowing free choice between good and evil the latter may be chosen
   
  

 

Both able and willing? Whence cometh evil?

 

Christian Response:

 

• Biblically speaking, evil originated in the heart and mind of Lucifer.
   
  
• the issue of ability and willingness to prevent evil should not be taken as isolated assertions
   
  
• What is evil? Who defines it? and several other stupid questions with no answers.
   
  

 

There is only so much of this crap that you can read without throwing up.

 

The simple fact is there is no logical answer to these four eloquent and flawless questions that are going to come from a person who prefers to believe what somebody told them rather than use their own intellect to judge the logic of what they were told. Logic rarely beats brainwashing and brainwashed people have no interest in logic. Simple as that.

 

 

[facthunter]

People like an answer and something that supplies answers wins on that point. Brainwashing is a proven method of achieving control of people. The right answer may be more elusive, but we can achieve many more of them than just a few hundred years ago. Our brain has evolved with time and will continue to do so unless we destroy ourselves. One should contemplate just how much we ourselves have been subject to it, occasionally. Nev

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Agree Nev. Not only received it but dished it out back in the army.

 

One o the good things about age is that it can bring a maturity that allows you to discard the BS that you've been handed over time from people you have thought should know.

 

The best thing we can do for children and grandchildren is to encourage them to question everything - except when it is time to go to bed.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Need a young virgin for a wife? Here's the Christian approved way of going about it:

 

If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife ...

 

Deuteronomy 22:28-9

 

Class act, or what. And these people claim the moral high ground? Give me a break. Thank God we don't have church law in Australia. Long live secular law!

 

 

[dutchroll]

One of the things which most deeply concerns me is the "well if you don't follow the Bible, where do you get your morality from?" argument.

 

I get worried that some people can only figure out what is right and what is wrong by reading it in a book.

 

 

[rankamateur]

I get worried that some people can only figure out what is right and what is wrong by reading it in a book.

And that book written on papyrus scrolls in the company of a bunch of savages who couldn't read by a bunch of scribes who were intent on gaining control and manipulation of the hoard.

 

 

[turboplanner]

One of the things which most deeply concerns me is the "well if you don't follow the Bible, where do you get your morality from?" argument.I get worried that some people can only figure out what is right and what is wrong by reading it in a book.

The Bible, as we have seen, on a number of occasions in this thread, is almost irrelevant to a belief in God, and is full of amoral conduct, and certainly not a comprehensive foundation of morality, so your concerns are unfounded.

 

Just because someone plucks a verse from a writer who may have written it, in aramaic seventeen hundred years ago, and after the verse has been translated into Hebrew, Latin and two lost of English, and after he has put his own spin on it, like Don is doing in #3135, doesn't warrant you getting worried like you say.

 

I'll give you a simpler method of judging morality; don't look at what a person says, look at what that person does. Won't be long before you're summing them up like a champion.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Well actually that's what I do in real life - look at what people do.

 

However I've read and even personally heard numerous examples of religious people quite matter-of-factly stating that following the Bible is necessary because it is how you know what is moral and what is not. There are no qualifications or caveats. Just a very simple "you can't know morality until you read it in the Bible" perspective.

 

Those are their thoughts......not mine. Granted, these people are predominantly Biblical literalists and Christian fundamentalists rather than your everyday moderate Christians. The latter take the Bible as a guideline and collection of moral stories which may or may not have actually happened, rather than the more extreme fringes who see it as a precise instruction book written with 100% accuracy. But they're out there, and in fair numbers too (depending on where you live).

 

 

[M61A1]

Need a young virgin for a wife? Here's the Christian approved way of going about it:

If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife ...

 

Deuteronomy 22:28-9

 

Class act, or what. And these people claim the moral high ground? Give me a break. Thank God we don't have church law in Australia. Long live secular law!

What's the shekel exchange rate these days?.....could work out expensive.

 

 

[facthunter]

Judge the tree by the fruit it bears. Not a bad idea. The suggestion you can't be a decent person without a commitment to what is in the bible is ridiculous. There is some grim stuff in there which has nothing to do with divine command. It's an insight into the way people lived about 3 thousand years ago around the mediterranean sea. Patriachal tribalism like some places still are. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Don't mention religion and morality in the same sentence. Religion has lacked morals from the top down here in Australia. we had a christian archbishop who covered up child abuse. Had to step down from the govergeneralship.

 

The Catholic church is still being uncovered for child abuse. The Salvation army were not left out either. It seems all religions consider the young to be fair game for their greed and lust.

 

Never trust a Christian and definitely never trust a Muslim, but at least the Muslims are not afraid to tell us what their views are. they don't hide behind a holier than thou appearance.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Waleed Ali was on Big Ideas (Radio National) the other night, talking about islamist terrorism. The man has a brain the size of Jupiter. I think the problem is that we generally know f-all about cultures that are different from our narrow experience, so when it comes to islam, we see the terrorist stuff pumped through the news 24/7 (probably more Australians killed by lightning strike than by terrorism, but the news loves a good beheading) and that's our ONLY frame of reference.

 

There are imams out there who are going through islamic texts and pointing out why ISIS is in every respect against everything that islam stands for, but we don't hear about them. (Until one of the very few- if only- muslims in the Australian media points it out).

 

The point is, people are people. There's good muslims and good christians and good buddhists and good atheists, and there's exactly the opposite in every camp too.

 

The world ain't black and white but the reporting of it is.

 

 

[dutchroll]

....... definitely never trust a Muslim, but at least the Muslims are not afraid to tell us what their views are. they don't hide behind a holier than thou appearance.

I've spent a lot of years of my life traveling around Asia meeting and dealing with Muslims especially in Malaysia and Indonesia.

 

Never had a problem or feared for my safety. Not once. Politeness and courtesy has always been returned with a smile.

 

I cannot say the same for some Christian countries I've travelled in. The USA is one of them, and the Philippines is another (one of the worst I've been to, but hey, they're all good Catholics).

 

 

[DonRamsay]

I've only ever known one person who was a Muslim. He was from Egypt studying architecture at the same Uni I was at. We got to be good friends nod I asked him about Islam. He told me how family centric it was. No domestic violence from alcohol abuse, an obligation to offer hospitality to anyone who turns up at your door.

 

Regards the headwear, imagine how a young woman would feel looking good at the beach in a stylish bikini. Now think of the same woman urging up for her Uni graduation ceremony in the same bikini. Very comfortable on the beach but feeling naked and embarrassed in a more formal situation. Now think of the Muslim woman who feels comfortable at home without the hijab but in public feels terribly immodest.

 

Clearly, a learned behaviour, just the same as the non-Muslim's behaviour and emotions. Imagine now a Pacific Islander very comfortable walking around the village topless - until some well meaning Christian missionary inflicts an ancient Middle Eastern religion on them.

 

I've always thought that Australians had a good approach to religion. Useful for naming ceremonies, Christmas and Easter, weddings and funerals and for comparative religion jokes . . . A priest a rabbi and a minister . . . Don't take it all that seriously. Get the best out of it and never try and convert anyone to your particular form of imaginary friend.

 

My faith is that Australian's lackadaisical way will wear down the Australian Muslims to the Australian level of "devotion". Might take a generation or two but it will happen. Have a look how Australian Anh Do is and that happened in less than one generation.

 

Australians are probably more at risk from Scientology and Hillsong than Islam.

 

 

[hihosland]

Don did say

 

"Australians are probably more at risk from Scientology and Hillsong than Islam."

 

amen!!!

 

 

[dutchroll]

Well your bank account is certainly at risk from Hillsong, that's for sure. Tax-free revenues of $80 million in the 2014-2015 financial year, although over the last few years it was generous enough to send about $1.5 million of that to help victims of overseas disasters. This only left them with a meagre $78.5 million to spend on themselves, which does make you wonder how they get by. Leader Brian Houston and his wife Bobby say they only get paid in the vicinity of $150,000/year although tax returns filed on their company "Leadership Ministries Incorporated", of which they are the only two employees, show earnings of nearly $700,000.

 

Ah it's a wonderful world of righteousness when you have God on your side!

 

Here....listen to American evangelist Jesse Duplantis actually state, on camera, that he was flying home in his private jet "that God so graciously gave us" while he and fellow evangelist Kenneth Copeland justify their extravagance. It'll make you puke.

 

 

[Yenn]

Dope filled world they said and there were a couple of real dopes. I have tried talking to god in my aeroplane and he never replies. The only time he has ever replied I have ended up with a splitting headache and feeling sick the next morning. Still can't remember what he said.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Could not watch that right through. These guys make George Pell look like a Christian.

 

 

[facthunter]

Outrageous con men. If god is watching he would be dishing out a few lightning bolts to these imposters. Unfortunately he appears to have been on leave for a while. The universe is a very big place so he is spread around somewhat. We can't be that important that we get 100% of his attention. Nev