Atheist knowledge

[Litespeed]

Beautiful Vistas there Mark.

 

Pity not much private flying to enjoy them.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

So getting back to topic Bex, did a big silver screwdriver come out of the clouds and did your bum fall off?

 

 

[bexrbetter]

The reality is that distributed solar with battery backup makes a lot more sense. Something that's enough to power some lights in the evening, .

 

solar powered lights to provide light at night in homes.This means the children can study and improve their education and opportunities in life.

Who's paying for it?

 

Why do they need lights at night?

 

How come they have been around for 5000 years and not developed - if they even want "development", maybe that's just a Western concept?

 

And the final question, are you guys going to stop your filthy disgusting waste of money on aircraft and give that money to starving children in Africa?

 

The answer to that one of course is; "No".

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Beautiful Vistas there Mark.

Pity not much private flying to enjoy them.

One of the most beautiful areas in the World, jaw dropping the first time when all you have seen is Oz valleys and mountains, never will forget coming around a corner on my first trip to see the beginnings of the Himalaya ranges, stunning magnitudes.

 

Private flying is getting there, you can just imagine the issues for a country starting from scratch, no airfields is the first issue and why helicopters are making some inroads at the moment. There is actually a medium sized airport a half hours light aircraft flying away at Shangri-La city in Yunnan Province, Shangri-La by name only, they changed the name to attract tourists, and as the actual Shangri-La area is in my Province, the Sichuan Government were furious about it!

 

Diqing Shangri-La Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

The red 'X' is my home, yellow dot the airport, and Meili (may lee) Snow Mountain is what's pictured above ...

 

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[Marty_d]

Who's paying for it?

Who's paying for the coal fired power stations and transmission infrastructure that the coal lobby says is needed to pull the developing world out of poverty?

 

Why do they need lights at night?

Answered. Education. Kids and adolescents often have to work to help keep the family alive during the day.

 

There is a charity run by some Australians in Africa that provides solar powered lights to provide light at night in homes.

Can you recall the name, Lightspeed?

 

 

[Litespeed]

There are actually quite a few some small some big dollar ones with big backing.

 

here are some

 

Akon Lighting Africa | Solar power initiative

 

Home - SolarAid

 

Home | SunnyMoney - Life is Getting Brighter

 

And there are others- I thought one was Australian but just has some Aussies involved- but the point is the same.

 

All good stuff

 

 

[onetrack]

Very spectacular country, Bex - but it sure isn't exactly the suburbs of Beijing, is it?

 

 

[onetrack]

Afon is organised and operated by African-Americans.

 

Solar Aid is British.

 

Sunny Money is a fully-owned subsidiary of Solar Aid.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Most aid programs set out to develop African countries along Western lines: Railways, telephone poles, power lines...but most pundits had no concept of how technology would progress.

 

A decade ago there were roughly half as many mobile phones in Africa as people. Hopefully they will leap-frog the dirty technologies and go renewable.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Very spectacular country, Bex - but it sure isn't exactly the suburbs of Beijing, is it?

.. and Beijing isn't China is it.

 

Still no one offering to clarify what "pollution" is, one thing it ain't (that people allude to) is the countless pictures of fog shrouded Beijing, I would say 90% of all "Beijing Smog" pictures I see are fog. But then again they are the same morons who keep posting pictures of flues pumping out steam

 

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Oh and another inconvenient truth about China Onetrack that the Western Press fail to mention, the average Chinese walks all over a typical Western person for daily environmental practices, the list is endless, you should be embarrassed and ashamed to be an Australian pointing your finger at China at all, you planet murderer you.

 

 

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[bexrbetter]

Who's paying for the coal fired power stations and transmission infrastructure that the coal lobby says is needed to pull the developing world out of poverty?

Well firstly, not you, tell the truth now. ... and I'm not either, but I don't pretend about these things.

 

Coal fired stations will go in because they are cheap, and since wealthy people like you and me are not giving money, cheap takes precedent.

 

Answered. Education. Kids and adolescents often have to work to help keep the family alive during the day.

You know little about "poverty stricken" people's attitudes, give them lights and most will use it to work at night as well. You see the map above and where I live, drive 30 minutes in most directions and you are in poverty like no Australian can imagine, poverty by our judgemental standards that is, but here's the rub; most of them are happy, also like many Australians can't imagine.

 

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[onetrack]

Well, Bex, you know what Mark Twain said, didn't you? "There are three kinds of lies - lies, damned lies, and statistics!"

 

Your statistics tell me that;

 

1. The Chinese people refuse to use electricity because it costs money, and they haven't got any - so they cook over a smokey animal dung fire instead, greatly adding to pollution ...

 

2. Chinese obviously don't wash too much - and I thought it was the Poms who had the permanently dry towels! ...

 

3. Chinese factories apparently still use animals for power, plus peasants on treadmills - whereas Australian industry utilises substantial energy sources, instead ...

 

Australians probably shift 1000 tonnes of raw materials for minerals per capita annually, as compared to maybe 10kgs per capita in China. So I think our energy consumption is justified, and the reasons for it are buried in those damned statistics.

 

You could no doubt also produce figures showing the Chinese are lowest polluters, per capita in the world. That figure could also conveniently forget that Chinese make up 20% of the worlds population.

 

 

[facthunter]

We are "behaving like b@st@rds but there's not enough of us to matter," isn't a moral statement. Networking gives a control over a product and where the delivery is 1/2 the cost, the structure needs to be in the equation, and considered when comparing an apple with something.. Current "Players" don't want independent power for individuals, or water or food or anything IF they get the opportunity to "control" it. They seek monopolies, and left to their own devices will establish them.

 

TOLL roads anyone? where the deal includes to not improve competing transport routes or transport systems. Look at the banks. They manipulate factors affecting Interest/bond rates. Just a small% but it involves vast sums equals worlds highest rates of remuneration for those at the top. Anyone been Gaoled yet over the GFC and the fraud involved there? Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Victoria's dirtiest power station set to close next year

[bexrbetter]

Well, Bex, you know what Mark Twain said, didn't you?

Yes he said this, look it up;

 

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”

 

 

[Marty_d]

Well firstly, not you, tell the truth now. ... and I'm not either, but I don't pretend about these things.

Coal fired stations will go in because they are cheap, and since wealthy people like you and me are not giving money, cheap takes precedent.

Exactly which bit am I pretending about, tell me?

 

It costs about 50c/watt to manufacture PV. So a 250w panel, which would probably give the essentials of light and charging to a household, is $125. I'd be surprised if you couldn't do a basic inverter, battery pack and a couple of LED lights for another couple of hundred bucks. So for $400 per household you'd have energy with no ongoing costs.

 

I heard today that the top 25 hedge fund managers in the USA get $25 BILLION per annum between them. (Note I say "get", not "earn", because no one's effort is worth $2.75 million every day of the year). If they were to donate one year's income to charity, which wouldn't really impact them in the slightest because they'd each get another billion next year, they could bring power to 62.5 million poor households.

 

Yes the west certainly has the wealth sloshing around to solve many of the world's problems, but not much of it is in my hands.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Exactly which bit am I pretending about, tell me?

It costs about 50c/watt to manufacture PV. So a 250w panel, which would probably give the essentials of light and charging to a household, is $125. I'd be surprised if you couldn't do a basic inverter, battery pack and a couple of LED lights for another couple of hundred bucks. So for $400 per household you'd have energy with no ongoing costs.

 

I heard today that the top 25 hedge fund managers in the USA get $25 BILLION per annum between them. (Note I say "get", not "earn", because no one's effort is worth $2.75 million every day of the year). If they were to donate one year's income to charity, which wouldn't really impact them in the slightest because they'd each get another billion next year, they could bring power to 62.5 million poor households.

 

Yes the west certainly has the wealth sloshing around to solve many of the world's problems, but not much of it is in my hands.

The best way to help humanity is to heavily reduce spending on armaments. This is an indescribable expense for many nations (few excepted such as Costa Rica) and is a huge drain on their economies. Armament spending is a very large wealth transfer as follows:

 

1. governments collect taxes from people but the ultra-rich usually pay minimal or no tax shifting the burden on the lower income, lower wealth people.

 

2. frequently there is still not enough money so governments extend their indebtedness to rich banks or overseas investors.

 

3. a sizeable proportion of this collected tax -which could be used to make the life of people better- is instead used on armaments, usually sending money to companies based in Europe or North America.

 

4. armament companies have a large concentration of uber-wealthy shareholders ...why? Because they are such a fantastic cash cow business. Similarly, there are many well-paid executives, engineers and technicians who earn salaries there often unattainable elsewhere.

 

5. armament companies employ the best sales executives who appear to have unprecedented contacts in government circles.

 

6. governments are forever talked into the latest-and-greatest equipment and this leads to the retiring of the last generation's hardware which governments paid a lot for in the first place (frequently they are still paying loans off for these toys) and, at times, these same companies talk governments into very expensive life-extension or upgrade projects which also cost a lot.

 

7. Back to step 1

 

Governments seem to ignore these facts:

 

1. Smaller commitments to "defence" spending (which in many cases should be termed "offence" spending) would keep more money in low income earners' pockets.

 

2. Overseas indebtedness would reduced markedly which means our own sovereignty is kept.

 

3. Instead of having large, standing armies, navies and air forces the labour 'wasted' there could instead be used for wonderful humanitarian endeavours. This could involve installation of PV panels on many remote huts, a decent, microbe-free water supply and education.

 

 

[Bruce]

Marty, there are wealthy people in those countries too. A cartridge for an AK47 would feed a family there for a week I guess. I don't believe the $20 it costs me to fly my Jabiru for half an hour would feed a village for a year. Maybe a day, but I suspect that if I were to donate the $20 to a charity, very little if any would actually be delivered to feed anyone. Most would go to the charity administrators and to the military of the poor country.

 

And I still want to know why the Greens are not against population growth. It seems a bizarre contradiction. I have a slight recollection that they decided to embrace large-scale immigration to distance themselves from Hanson , but surely they must have a better reason than this.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Well firstly, not you, tell the truth now. ... and I'm not either, but I don't pretend about these things.

Coal fired stations will go in because they are cheap, and since wealthy people like you and me are not giving money, cheap takes precedent.

 

You know little about "poverty stricken" people's attitudes, give them lights and most will use it to work at night as well. You see the map above and where I live, drive 30 minutes in most directions and you are in poverty like no Australian can imagine, poverty by our judgemental standards that is, but here's the rub; most of them are happy, also like many Australians can't imagine.

 

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I would have thought he was too young to have a CPL

 

 

[onetrack]

Governments seem to ignore these facts:1. Smaller commitments to "defence" spending (which in many cases should be termed "offence" spending) would keep more money in low income earners' pockets.

Excellent in theory - unfortunately, it doesn't take into account, the ability of politicians to waste taxpayers money wholesale, even when it's not spent on defence items.Japan has spent virtually nothing on defence items since WW2 (apart from a small amount of "self-defence" items) - yet it's the most indebted nation in the world, with a Gross Govt Debt to GDP ratio, of 229%.

 

Japans gross debt makes America's 104% ratio and Australia's 36% ratio, look quite benign by comparison. The Japanese actually owe more than Greece.

 

Country List Government Debt to GDP

 

 

[Marty_d]

Marty, there are wealthy people in those countries too. A cartridge for an AK47 would feed a family there for a week I guess. I don't believe the $20 it costs me to fly my Jabiru for half an hour would feed a village for a year. Maybe a day, but I suspect that if I were to donate the $20 to a charity, very little if any would actually be delivered to feed anyone. Most would go to the charity administrators and to the military of the poor country.And I still want to know why the Greens are not against population growth. It seems a bizarre contradiction. I have a slight recollection that they decided to embrace large-scale immigration to distance themselves from Hanson , but surely they must have a better reason than this.

I agree Bruce, but it wasn't me who put up the pic about the kid and the half hour flying. Maybe he was talking about a B737 rather than a Jab.

 

I don't know where you get the idea that the Greens are not against population growth. Seemed a bit strange so I went to their website, and the first sentence in their population policy is:

 

The Australian Greens believe that:

 

1. The current level of population, population growth and the way we produce and consume are outstripping environmental capacity. (Population)
    
   

 

I think they believe that the population could be more evenly distributed, but I don't think you'd find one who says that the current rate of population increase is sustainable.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Exactly which bit am I pretending about, tell me?

That you truly care when your lifestyle indicates otherwise.

 

I agree Bruce, but it wasn't me who put up the pic about the kid and the half hour flying.

Was sarcasm - For Socialists who run around telling everybody else how issues could be solved, hell even chipping in occasionally, but all while enjoying every trapping that Capitalism has to offer.

 

 

If they were to donate one year's income to charity, which wouldn't really impact them in the slightest because they'd each get another billion next year, they could bring power to 62.5 million poor households.

How about you lead the way, If you sold your plane, give up your wine, don't visit friends tomorrow or a wasteful Sunday drive otherwise in the car, you could power a village for a year.

 

I actually know people who have done this, impressive. Stupid by my selfish capitalistic standards, but impressive.

 

Note that every country that has chosen Socialist foundations have eventually failed, and miserably so, yet for some reason Australia is continually expanding down that path.

 

 

[onetrack]

Note that every country that has chosen Socialist foundations have eventually failed, and miserably so, yet for some reason Australia is continually expanding down that path.

Hey, this is a bit rich, coming from a bloke operating in a country that still worships Chairman Mao as some kind of God!I'm old enough to clearly remember the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution - and the near-destruction of China, in the name and pursuit of socialist idealogy!

 

 

[Marty_d]

That you truly care when your lifestyle indicates otherwise.

How about you lead the way, If you sold your plane, give up your wine, don't visit friends tomorrow or a wasteful Sunday drive otherwise in the car, you could power a village for a year.

 

I actually know people who have done this, impressive. Stupid by my selfish capitalistic standards, but impressive.

 

Note that every country that has chosen Socialist foundations have eventually failed, and miserably so, yet for some reason Australia is continually expanding down that path.

So... you're just going to ignore the scale of difference. Someone earning between $50,000 and $100,000 should go give up everything, but someone getting $1,000,000,000 should... what? Buy another gold-plated A380? Buy another 500 mansions around the world?

 

Calling out the difference between obscenely rich and average middle class - Is that what you call socialism? I'm not advocating armed insurrection and redistribution of wealth. I'm saying that there's something wrong when 25 individual human beings receive more in a year than the GDP of any one of 88 countries. In fact more than the bottom 27 countries combined.

 

Yes, I could give up everything that costs money and give it to the poor. I might be able to manage $20,000 in a year. Perhaps. So it'd take 50,000 middle class Australians, giving up all their disposable income, to do what 1 ultra-rich person could do. Not to mention that the $1 billion is US$, so they'd still have a lousy $240 million to live on.

 

 

[Bruce]

Thanks Marty, I stand corrected. So their pursuit of large immigration to Australia is to make the world more uniform. Well they are getting their way, but I don't agree.

 

I will however stop accusing them of encouraging population growth for the whole world.

 

On sustainable systems, I would like for some of out military expenditure to be used for large-scale trials of possibilities. But you need a complete system, not a partial one which only works on windy days.

 

While doing cabling at a remote Aboriginal outstation in the NT some years ago, I was struck by how expensive it was to supply the settlement with electricity. They used a diesel generator and an attendant who came for one or two days a week.

 

What an opportunity for solar/wind and some sort of storage thought I, but try as I could, there was no way I could find of doing it cheaper. And this was in a place with not much nightlife and no industrial demand.

 

Now with a big grant, I sure could have done a nice system but it would be an extravagance affordable by a wealthy country.