Atheist knowledge

[Gnarly Gnu]

Children should have a choice when they are old enough to make that choice. Not brainwashed at primary school.

This one opposes children learning how to read and write. OK.....

 

 

[facthunter]

Surely you are not comparing learning reading and writing and numeracy which are SKILLs with doctrinaire beliefs. If we are going to teach beliefs which ones do we teach, and which ones do we not want to teach? Also why should I contribute to the cost ? Divisiveness is conflict potential. I want no part of it, thank you.Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

This one opposes children learning how to read and write. OK.....

Nope totally different, if children want to have any sort of quality of life. They have to learn to read and write or they will be left behind. Teaching them religious fairy tales isn't going to help them succeed in the real world.

 

 

[facthunter]

A general and fair coverage of religion(S) might have some validity as a general knowledge of religion(s) might be an asset in some circumstances. I don't like the idea of forcing someone to believe something as it is clearly not possible to change ones belief by force let alone justify it morally. You might pretend to believe something so your head stays on, but what does that achieve?. A conversion on the Road to Damascus? Bit close to home eh!. Nev

 

 

[M61A1]

Why does it bother you - do you think everyone's children all belong to you? You believe that you have superior knowledge of child rearing compared to children's own parents? Or just another case of garden variety atheist intolerance.... scratch the surface, find an autocrat.

Your athi children are brought up being indoctrinated that they came from nothing, have no purpose in life or real value and will return to nothing when they die. Big surprise so many turn to drugs and others end up topping themselves. Apparently this is superior though.

It bothers me because I was one of them, the crap spoon fed from a young age still affects me as an adult. The years of my life I will never get back, I will not go into details, but I was once religious, and now my eyes are open.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

So now you get to raise your children how you like. I still don't get why you want authority over other parents, can you explain? This desire is not something that has ever occurred to me. The idea of personal choice and freedom seems anathema to atheists.... Personally I like my children to understand something of all the different beliefs and views, not this blinkered approach athi's espouse.

 

 

[M61A1]

So now you get to raise your children how you like. I still don't get why you want authority over other parents, can you explain? This desire is not something that has ever occurred to me. The idea of personal choice and freedom seems anathema to atheists....

This "personal freedom" you speak of, is exactly the issue...just as paedophiles have no right to groom children for sex, because it's a life changing event for when you are an adult, the religious have no right to impose such life changing circumstances on the young and impressionable.

 

Minors should have the personal freedom to choose religion as adults, not be groomed from a young age to follow in some nutter's footsteps.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Still not able to answer my question I see. Atheists are very much a minority on this planet - why do you demand every child be raised in your belief system? Who gave you authority over everyone's children?

 

 

[Keenaviator]

Nope totally different, if children want to have any sort of quality of life. They have to learn to read and write or they will be left behind. Teaching them religious fairy tales isn't going to help them succeed in the real world.

Where does your 'real world' begin and end Daz? Believe it or not there are some of us who believe there is more to life than the here and now.

 

Laurie

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

"Atheists are very much a minority on this planet "

 

I wonder whether that's really the case? I suspect that a lot of people go through the motions of a religion, without really believing the doctrine, simply because it's less hassle. I used to write "C of E" in the slot asking "religion", and I got the impression that a lot of other did likewise, but didn't bother going to church, except for marriages and funerals. Nowadays I write "NOYB" - but in fact it's illegal to ask that question nowadays in Australia.

 

"Who gave you authority over everyone's children?"

Silly, provocative and chip-on-shoulder question; you know the law just as well as I do, I'm sure.

 

And I, for one, don't want authority over everyone's children; I just object very strongly to any religious presumption of any right whatsoever to seek to indoctrinate my children. If you want to indoctrinate your children, that's up to you - at present. However, I reserve the right to consider you beneath contempt if you do so.

 

[AVOCET]

Nope totally different, if children want to have any sort of quality of life. They have to learn to read and write or they will be left behind. Teaching them religious fairy tales isn't going to help them succeed in the real world.

Soooo , you ,me ,my kids and eveyone else who had fairy tails taught to us ???

 

Little red riding hood scared more ..hit out of me than having a naitivivity

 

Play at christmas!

 

When i was a kid of coarse !

 

 

[dazza 38]

Soooo , you ,me ,my kids and eveyone else who had fairy tails taught to us ???

Little red riding hood scared more ..hit out of me than having a naitivivity

 

Play at christmas!

 

When i was a kid of coarse !

Actually it is course not coarse. And children are told that little miss riding hood is a fairy tale. The scary thing is, is that the are told that the religion jibberish they are told is actually true.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Believe it or not there are some of us who believe there is more to life than the here and now.Laurie

 

Oh really? Prove it.

 

The whole foundation of your belief is exactly that, belief, faith - without one iota of proof.

 

Of course your belief is right, those others who believe in your same God or Jesus, but in a different way, aren't true believers are they. FWIW, based on Joho Witnesses believing that Jesus is not the full God per say, nor fully human per say, which if Jesus did actually exist, this would be the most accurate description of him and some other views they have, then it needs to be considered that their take on "only 144,000 selected ones" are going to the afterlife has more solid grounding than all other religions. Since the 144,000 positions were taken up by 1935, that leaves you at the bus stop with no more running tonight. Or tomorrow.

 

But, lets say you don't subscribe to Joho's views, I mean they are another radical bunch of wankers who don't follow your doctrine (and your's is the only true doctrine of course), well according to the Bible you had better have olive skin, black hair, wear a turban occasional, your name is in the ilk of Hamad and come from one of the "Tribes", you were never going anywhere according to Revelations .... in fact Whitey, are you even recognised specifically in the Bible at all?

 

Revelations 7;19

 

And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

 

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

 

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

 

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

 

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

 

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

 

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

 

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

 

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

 

.........

 

There are numbers of people institutionalised for having odd beliefs in or about things, however when it's related to the bible apparently it's all ok, you are normal. Nah, you're not.

 

 

[PA.]

I was recently asked if I could have only one super power what would it be? I thought about this very seriously but could not decide which three I would give up.

 

 

[Bikky]

I was (like everybody) born atheist.

 

I am still an atheist. I looked at various religions but soon discovered that either you believe in something, or you don´t.

 

I could kid myself into thinking I believe something I don´t, but I would be lying to myself.

 

Atheism is NOT a belief - it´s a lack of belief. I don´t believe in any gods. I love and respect nature and physical laws. The world I live in is full of wonder.

 

I don´t see how forcing myself to believe in a diety could improve my life.

 

The understanding of what is right and wrong is not the sole domain of the religious.

 

If I do wrong, I don´t have a deity to forgive me - I have to live with my wrongdoings and learn from them.

 

I don´t believe in an afterlife - this life is good enough for me. The idea of eternity scares the s##t out of me! I didn´t exist before I was born and I won´t after I die.

 

To imply that atheists are immoral is ignorant. To imply that atheism is a belief is ridiculous and demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of what atheism is.

 

The reason many atheists are rather militant relates to the above points and that we are constantly under pressure to conform to a belief system.

 

Please keep in mind, atheism is not a choice. Either you believe or you don´t.

 

 

[AVOCET]

PART OF BEX's surmom rev:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man couldnumber, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stoodbefore the throne, and before theLamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

 

This one blows the jovo's away , used it many a time

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Atheists are very much a minority on this planet

That's an argument that denies Agnosticism.

 

And of course Religious Agnostics, who would otherwise be Atheists, arises from children given no choice in having it rammed down their throats from an early age and leaving some doubt or fear not to believe in something.

 

Of course it's different in China where they don't have it rammed down their throats from childhood but surprise, surprise, they believe Dragons once existed and that ghosts do exist (serious) and other cultural beliefs because that's what they are exposed to as children.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Those of you who have been literally quoting the King James Bible, are walking on very shaky ground. The Old Testament was written by many authors, most of it written in Hebrew, but some in more ancient languages. By the time it was translated several times a lot of the meanings could be lost since in some cases there were no equivalent words or written intent.

 

So may of the King James words are nonsensical in their context or had a different use to their current one.

 

For example, "sealed" could easily be the word "baptised" we used today.

 

 

[turboplanner]

We seem to have descended away from Atheism vs God to some social engineering attempts based around beliefs.

 

Beliefs are just going to get in the way; if you can’t handle the new developments which threaten Darwin’s theory, then you are going to have trouble handing new information about the Christian religion and its origins.

 

The following information is from “The Hiram Key” by Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas.

 

Virgin Birth

 

The central Christian myth predates Jesus Christ … here are just some of the ancient figures who were considered gods, who still predate Christ:

 

• Guatama Buddha: born of the virgin Maya around 600 BC
   
  
• Dionysus: Greek god, born of a virgin in a stable, turned water into wine
   
  
• Quirrnus: An early Roman saviour, born of a virgin
   
  
• Attis: born of the virgin Nama in Phrygia around 200 BC
   
  
• Indra: born of a virgin in Tibet around 700 BC
   
  
• Adonis: Babylon god – born of the virgin Ishtar
   
  
• Krishna: Hindu deity – born of the virgin Devaki in around 1200 BC
   
  
• Zoroaster: born of a virgin 1500 – 1200 BC
   
  
• Mithra: born of a virgin in a stable on 25 December around 600 BC. His resurrection was celebrated at Easter.
   
  

 

 

Resurrection

 

The idea that Jesus went around raising a few selected people from their recent death, in a land where hundreds died daily is another literalism of something far more down to earth.

 

The method of making a person a member of the inner sanctum at Qumran was the ceremony that had come down one and a half thousand years to them from Pharaoh Sequenre’s murder in Thebes, in Egypt, that had it stemmed from the king-making ceremonies of ancient Egypt going back to 4000 BC.

 

Initiates were known as the “living”, everyone else being referred to as “dead”.

 

The Qumran Community believed religiously that “life” could only happen in the Community and according to some Jews, it could only occur in the land of Palestine if it was freed from Roman rule.

 

It was common for one Jewish sect to believe that all Jews of other sects were religiously “dead”.

 

The preoccupation with a living resurrection is also mentioned in the Gnostic Gospels.

 

Jesus used the same techniques when he made someone a general member of this splinter cult of the Qumran sect, he turned “water into wine” and when he initiated a new candidate into his core group, they were “raised from the dead”.

 

A similar living resurrection also occurs in the Freemasons’ Third Degree ceremony.

 

Name of Jesus Christ

 

• Jesus Christ is a later Greek Title, not a name
   
  
• No one knows the name he was born with for sure, but he was possibly known in his life as Yehosua (which means Yahweh delivers), and that would translate today as Joshua.
   
  
• “Jesus” is a Greek interpretation of Yehoshua
   
  
• “Christ” is a Greek rendering of the Jewish title “Messiah”
   
  
• In Israel, “Messiah” meant “king in waiting”
   
  
• “Messiah only appears twice in the Authorised version of the Old Testament and is absent from the New Testament.
   
  
• The term “Christ” was far from unique and was not restricted to one individual.
   
  
• Jesus Christ used the title “Son of God” for himself – which was an ancient title for everyone who was claiming kingship.
   
  

 

 

The Old Testament Bible was translated into Greek in the third century BC as Septuagint or LXX

 

• Christians inserted new passages and whole books
   
  
• The same people who doctored the Old Testament assembled the New Testament
   
  
• Nowhere in the Old Testament does it prophesy the coming of a world saviour
   
  

 

 

 

In the lead up to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ a criminal who was due to be crucified with Jesus was released. His name was Barabbas.

 

In the language of the time “Barabbas” was not a name but a title – “Son of God”

 

“Bar” meant “son of”, “abba” meant “father”

 

In the early scripts of Matthew in verse 27:16, his designated title is used in its full form “Jesus Barabbas”

 

The individual who was released was Jesus, Son of God

 

Which one of the two was released?

 

Many of the oldest Christian sects believe Jesus did not die on the cross; and if that was the case he would be free to meet up again with his disciples and walk off out of the clutches of the Romans, a martyr.

 

Muslims today hold Jesus Christ in very high regard as a prophet who was ordered to be crucified but whose place was taken by another.

 

These examples of misunderstandings due to Bible translations or time, doesn't mean that Christianity is dead but rather questions some of the actions of one of the "Christs", but they do offer a more realistic explanation of some of the things that went on, and we also have to break clear of the confusion surrounding Jesus Christ to get back further.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Really interesting turbs, thanks.

 

 

[facthunter]

You are certainly getting into atheists GG. I haven't met the kind you speak of. You are all entitled to your own god. When you force it on others and their kids I am not with you, and certainly don't believe exclusion should happen if you don't believe in one. Usually YOUR one. Regarding the number of atheists or agnostics out there. You would be surprised if you did a proper poll, just how many there are. I feel threatened not at all by that because THEY won't be going around saying you aren't the right type of atheist, and in some cases wanting to kill you for that, like many so called believers. OF course Catholics can be excluded from the church. (excommunicated) by a human being. It's all a bit silly really. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

[facthunter]

I hope you don't think that is a serious contribution? Nev.. Nice dog though.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I don't take GNus arguments too seriously, if I did where would that leave me?

 

 

[facthunter]

Between a rock and a hard place? Nev