Atheist knowledge

[facthunter]

Some of these writings loosely interpreted give ill intentioned people an excuse to behave abominably. Bush said god was speaking though his lips. I doubt that. We should be very careful who we allow to lead us or we will wear the consequences. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

How could you expect the Bible to be accurate? You just have to look at recent history to see that the "facts" change to suit the teller of the tale. That is for events within the last 100 years. What hope for events 1500 or more years ago, especially as the history was written many years or decades after the event.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Look at the dead sea scrolls as valuable research notes.

Research for what?

 

Where they are of most value is in corroborating events in the Bible and Sumerian texts to provide corroborated dates and even times of some events.

Any experienced Policeman will tell you the unreliability of witnesses and that a few witnesses will often give totally conflicting stories.

 

Now take those facts and relate them to a time where events were carried by mouth to mouth, over long periods of time and multiple sources. there was no internet, telegraph, telephones etc. and traveling Story Tellers wouldn't get a free feed, not for telling some boring run of the mill story, but would get food and even paid to exaggerate and entertain, bringing wondrous stories from other districts or lands, i.e. "A man who walks on water you say ...."

 

 

[turboplanner]

Research for what?

An anthropologist might study them when researching the origins of western civilisation.

 

Any experienced Policeman will tell you the unreliability of witnesses and that a few witnesses will often give totally conflicting stories.

That certainly happens, but part of our criminal justice system is based on independent witness statements which corroborate an observation.

 

In a case where a Sumerian text reports that something happened at dawn on the first day of spring in the tenth year after 'X" died, and a Qumram text says the same, and the bible says the same, that's pretty good evidence that it happened at 4:30 am on March 1, 145 BC.

 

Now take those facts and relate them to a time where events were carried by mouth to mouth, over long periods of time and multiple sources. there was no internet, telegraph, telephones etc. and traveling Story Tellers wouldn't get a free feed, not for telling some boring run of the mill story, but would get food and even paid to exaggerate and entertain, bringing wondrous stories from other districts or lands, i.e. "A man who walks on water you say ...."

Well that descended into dribble didn't it.

 

Many tribal stories have been proved to be accurate, and an example, which directly relates to us, is given in the book "We, the Navigators" which describes how Pacific Ocean tribes passed down navgation skill from generation to generation, which allowed them to sail hundreds of kilometres across the ocean and navigate back, not just to their home island, but to the break in the reef surrounding their home island.

 

 

[Bikky]

The fact that the story of Cinderella is told in many languages doesn't make it any more true, despite it's being traceable to one author - if you could be bothered doing the research. Aesop's writings are recognised as fables. There are words of wisdom there, but only a truly gullible person could believe them to be historical fact. Discrimination can be a good thing when applied to information.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Well that descended into dribble didn't it.

 

.

Well I guess if it doesn't agree with your point of view that you can't prove at all, you might say that. It's pretty factual actually.

 

The Story Tellers most certainly existed as did the sacrifices and temples that apparently you, the self confessed religious historian, knew nothing about. Seems your plinth isn't as tall as you thought.

 

Many tribal stories have been proved to be accurate,

Coincidently and very on topic, not the ones about Gods.

 

how Pacific Ocean tribes passed down navigation skill from generation to generation,

Things such as the quintessential skills to actually exist day to day like navigation, cooking and which plants and animals not to eat, simply don't compare to fairytales told to children.

 

... and back on ignore you go, you're simply too condescending for me.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

In a case where a Sumerian text reports that something happened at dawn on the first day of spring in the tenth year after 'X" died, and a Qumram text says the same, and the bible says the same, that's pretty good evidence that it happened at 4:30 am on March 1, 145 BC.

Yup, 2 of them copied one of them, not hard to explain, media outlets do it to this day without fact checking and look like idiots.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I'm talking about historic facts, not fairy stories; fairy stories are fairy stories...but you knew that.

 

 

[Bruce]

Under certain conditions, a convective or a wave cloud can mark an island. This is how the Polynesians knew where to look. As for real navigation, this was not prevalent. Captain Cook was one of the few sea captains of his day who was good at it. Most of the rest just used recipes. ( like "keep the Spanish Main on your port side for 5 days then bear east")

 

The better ones could use a sextant and get a latitude. Cook could do longitude too.

 

The main intervention of the almighty in naval affairs was when He sent the divine wind , the kamikaze, to destroy the Russian invasion fleet heading for Japan. What religion I wonder.

 

 

[facthunter]

There's a lot more to the Polynesian navigation than cloud over islands. They "read" the swells on the sea surface and other subtleties. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes, when they were hundreds of km from islands they read the swell, in the day time and had a very simple way of reading the stars at night. Then they looked for different species of land based sea birds which ranged out at different distances, and then they could use the convection clouds, but also they could do it at night.

 

 

[peter]

Swell patterns, phosphorescence colour changes, specific bird sightings, cloud formations, star patterns and movements, aiming off techniques but these were not general stories but rather as Bex suggests highly specific "trade" knowledge taught to a select few. We The Navigators is a great read as are all of David Lewis's books. He studied navigation techniques across many indigenous cultures around the world and there are quite a few lessons in there for all of us.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...The main intervention of the almighty in naval affairs was when He sent the divine wind , the kamikaze, to destroy the Russian invasion fleet heading for Japan. What religion I wonder.

Wrong enemy, Bruce.

 

 

[M61A1]

I just got this in my mailbox, unsigned and unaddressed.....

 

President Obama will announce to the world in early October "Peace and Safety" then the Rapture happens, Word war erupts & the Biblical 7 year Apocolypse starts. 1st Thessoloians 5:3

 

MOCK NOW & REGRET LATER. YOU HAVE BEEN DULY WARNED.

 

It goes on for a whole page about Guido Westerwelle being the biblical antichrist and UN HQ being the whore of revelation, then tell about the plagues and how I should repent.

 

It's all sort of funny and disturbing at the same time.

 

Oh and apparently the number of the beast is 667, I always thought that was the neighbour of the beast.

 

Bugger, that means my 666 number plate (issued by chance) has no meaning.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I just got this in my mailbox, unsigned and unaddressed.....

President Obama will announce to the world in early October "Peace and Safety" then the Rapture happens, Word war erupts & the Biblical 7 year Apocolypse starts. 1st Thessoloians 5:3

 

MOCK NOW & REGRET LATER. YOU HAVE BEEN DULY WARNED.

 

It goes on for a whole page about Guido Westerwelle being the biblical antichrist and UN HQ being the whore of revelation, then tell about the plagues and how I should repent.

 

It's all sort of funny and disturbing at the same time.

 

Oh and apparently the number of the beast is 667, I always thought that was the neighbour of the beast.

 

Bugger, that means my 666 number plate (issued by chance) has no meaning.

Nutters. The End has been Nigh so many times that I'm getting tired of repenting.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Nutters. The End has been Nigh so many times that I'm getting tired of repenting.

....and we're back to the Christian stories again, like being bogged in treacle.

 

There were advanced civilisations with their own skills and beliefs well before this, for example:

 

It's only 2000 years back to the days of Jesus Christ, but go back another 1400 years when Hapshepsut reigned - a female Pharaoh - diversity way back then!

 

The priests held the scientific and engineering knowledge, and her temple is an example of the architectural proportioning that we still use today. They believed in a God, and wrote on papyrus.

 

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or go back 4,000 years before Christ to the Osirion at Abydos in Egypt; no stick cponstruction here, and the cyclopean architecture incoporates the orecise keying of huge blocks of stone found in Central America. and this was thouands of years before Kep Tepi, where Souls were discussed.

 

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Over these thousands of years before Christ, the people didn't get their knowledge from paid BS artists.

 

[Old Koreelah]

....or go back 4,000 years before Christ to the Osirion at Abydos in Egypt; no stick cponstruction here, and the cyclopean architecture incoporates the orecise keying of huge blocks of stone found in Central America. and this was thouands of years before Kep Tepi, where Souls were discussed.

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Impressive stonework, Turbs. I don't know this building. Is the flooding associated with the Aswan High Dam?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Impressive stonework, Turbs. I don't know this building. Is the flooding associated with the Aswan High Dam?

Abu Simbell was the area covered by the dam. The Egyptologists thought it was a temple, but it's now thought to have some hydrographic use.

 

 

[Bruce]

Turbs, I reckon the most amazing thing about the ancient Egyptians is that they never sent an expedition up the Nile. Gosh they were the world's superpower and the expedition could have been protected by an army.

 

My guess is that the guys in charge knew deep down that all their religious stuff was bullshit. Of course they needed their fictions about gods etc sending Nile flows to be unchallenged by any evidence, because it gave them their exalted positions.

 

 

[Bruce]

Wow what great programming Ian.... I really typed the naughty word for BS and it came up as *******

 

Thanks for the great website.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Turbs, I reckon the most amazing thing about the ancient Egyptians is that they never sent an expedition up the Nile. Gosh they were the world's superpower and the expedition could have been protected by an army.My guess is that the guys in charge knew deep down that all their religious stuff was ********. Of course they needed their fictions about gods etc sending Nile flows to be unchallenged by any evidence, because it gave them their exalted positions.

The Egyptians had trade routes right down into Ethiopia, and they had gauges along the Nile and were able to forecast the grain crop and build extra granaries when needed. They only had one God. In their written history of Kep Tepi, the first time, it explained how those beings (which we now call souls) wanted to experience human life, and tried throwing themselves into human bodies for a while. God warned them that this absorbed tremendous power and things could go wrong. Some of them found they could not get out of the body, others finished up with half human/ half animal, and some had major organs missing. These last were referred to as "things" and we're used as slaves. The successful conversions we're humans with a much advanced level of knowledge and skills.

 

Since everyone knew what had happened, these people were not cobsidered gods, but acted as "champions" in teaching the population advanced skills.

 

 

[Dwilly]

I threw some stuff up in the air. It flew and I called it a ?

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I threw some stuff up in the air. It flew and I called it a ?

... victim of gravity.

 

 

[Bruce]

I have to give in to your deeper knowledge Turbs, my thinking has been shaped by the stories about the search for the beginnings of the Nile right into colonial times.

 

 

[M61A1]

....and we're back to the Christian stories again, like being bogged in treacle..

When a follower of an ancient Egyptian religion puts a "repent now" letter in my letterbox, I'll post about that.

 

You still haven't told us which god it is that you think is real....

 

I think the Church of Satan has some pretty good rules, until they get to the bit about the "Magic". I don't believe in Satan either, they just have more sensible rules.

 

The Nine Satanic Statements

 

by Anton Szandor LaVey

 

The Nine Satanic Statements originally appeared in The Satanic Bible, © 1969

 

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
    
   
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
    
   
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
    
   
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
    
   
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
    
   
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
    
   
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!
    
   
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
    
   
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!
    
   

 

The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

 

by Anton Szandor LaVey

 

© 1967

 

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
    
   
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
    
   
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
    
   
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
    
   
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
    
   
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
    
   
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
    
   
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
    
   
9. Do not harm little children.
    
   
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
     
    
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
     
    

 

The Nine Satanic Sins

 

by Anton Szandor LaVey

 

© 1987

 

1. Stupidity
   The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.
    
   
2. Pretentiousness
   Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.
    
   
3. Solipsism
   Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won’t. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of “Do unto others as they do unto you.” It’s work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.
    
   
4. Self-deceit
   It’s in the “Nine Satanic Statements” but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!
    
   
5. Herd Conformity
   That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.
    
   
6. Lack of Perspective
   Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.
    
   
7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies
   Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it’s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.
    
   
8. Counterproductive Pride
   That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.
    
   
9. Lack of Aesthetics
   This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It’s not what’s supposed to be pleasing—it’s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one’s own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.