Atheist knowledge

[Gnarly Gnu]

If you think that Indigenous cultures are "primitive" you are indeed uneducated and ignorant of the vastly complex languages, legal systems, marriage guidelines, etiquette protocols and land management rules that were mostly swept aside by ignorant white men. Those cultures survived many thousands of years of changing climate and centuries of contact with Asian traders- who respected the indigenous people they encountered.

Hey if you feel they are more advanced and superior no-one is stopping you moving in. I was only referring to what the people themselves said. Don't really appreciate the implied racist and misandrist 'white men' part either but I'll get over it no doubt. I believe that all peoples are the same age and originated from the same human ancestors. So do you believe in Darwinian evolution theory OK? I don't but you would surely be aware that this theory is VERY racist as it holds that dark skinned people are less evolved and closer to their primate ancestors than whites. The original title of Darwin's book gives a clue: "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I think reincarnation is just as plausible as going to Heaven.

Agreed, Dazza. The economist in me is always trying to understand how an ever-increasing number of "souls" could be accommodated in "heaven". (http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/hell-a-scientific-explanation.125832/)

 

Nature takes care of these awkward problems by recycling everything from carbon to phosphates.

 

As the biomass of humankind, our crops and livestock increases, natural systems shrink and diminish. Perhaps there is some sort of balance and the total biomass on the planet stays much the same- more people, less animals and plants. And so too with "souls".

 

If we continue with the destruction of nature (assuming our species doesn't wipe itself out) man may "die from a great loneliness of spirit". -as warned by the great Chief Seattle: prophet, seer and peacemaker.

 

http://www.barefootsworld.net/seattle.html

 

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/seattle.asp

 

Sadly, even though his poetic words were written down within a generation, it's unlikely that's what he actually said. After translation through a couple of completely alien languages, filtered by changing attitudes and edited by several with an agenda of their own, it may be a totally different message.

 

Sound familiar?

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

If we continue with the destruction of nature (assuming our species doesn't wipe itself out)

I don't get this line of thinking from you evolutionists. It seems if you actually believed your own theory it would instead be - "why bother about endangered species at all when they simply aren't up to it. Let them die out naturally and a superior species will come along to replace them." That's how it's claimed to work, right?

 

I fear you are right about mankind self destructing though. The good news is that finally God intervenes to prevent this: Jesus prophecy in Matthew 24 "for then shall there be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be; and if those days had not been cut short, no flesh had been saved; but on account of the elect those days shall be cut short"

 

 

[octave]

That's how it's claimed to work, right?

not really, GG I have read most of the Bible, how about you make an effort to actually understand what the theory of evolution actually is, it is based on far more than just a book by Darwin as well as the work of Alfred Russel Wallace. The theory has been validated over and over again through multiple scientific disciplines. For a short and easy read consider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent You just can't bag evolution by bagging Darwin you need to address the evidence including modern advances in the understaning of genes. Earlier you infered that there were no transitional fossils http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils Just because some creationist website asserts something it does not mean that it is true.

 

I get that you have a strong faith and that is certainly no problem for me but I suspect that your acceptance or rejection is based on what you think supports your faith. Where do you stand on other well accepted scientific theories, General and Special Theories of

 

Relativity? Lewis Theory of Bonding? Germ Theory? Quantum Theory?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Hey if you feel they are more advanced and superior...

No GG, that is not what I said.

 

... So do you believe in Darwinian evolution theory...as it holds that dark skinned people are less evolved and closer to their primate ancestors than whites...

On the contrary, some modern Africans are "newer" (and arguably fitter and stronger) races than those from Europe, Asia, etc, who are descended from peoples that left Africa eons ago and may be more closely related to the distant ancestors.

 

The groups who first reached Australia and New Guinea could be the most-distantly related to modern Africans. Who says they are less evolved? Their material culture may not have developed like ours, but don't forget that a few hundred years ago the technology of Europe was decidedly backward compared to China's. Did that make the Tudors primitive"?

 

My take on Darwinian evolution is that the peoples alive today were naturally "selected" for their environment. Human migration often takes people far from where they developed their "racial" characteristics. European Australian often get skin cancer. Does this make us "less evolved" to cope with sunnier regions?

 

 

[DonRamsay]

. . . So do you believe in Darwinian evolution theory OK?

No, we don't believe in evolution - we learn the scientific theory and consider the evidence that confirms it and accept that on balance it is a very useful way of explaining the evolution of life on Earth. Evolution is not dependent on a belief system. It is not dogmatic. It does not involve a mind being closed to new information for 3 or 4 thousand years. If a theory came around tomorrow with strong evidence that was peer reviewed and accepted by all (but the usual few religious nutters) then I would be happy to accept Darwin was wrong and if he were still alive he would be delighted to find a better answer than the one he came up with.

 

Now, compare that to the immutable nonsense in the Bible - the universe was created in 6 days about 6,000 years ago on a Thursday afternoon just before beer o'clock. And anyone who says that ain't so is a blasphemer and is to be stoned to death. "Belief" requires irrational acceptance of something because somebody told you to.

 

. . . this theory is VERY racist as it holds that dark skinned people are less evolved and closer to their primate ancestors than whites. The original title of Darwin's book gives a clue: "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"

No, what it shows is that all human beings currently alive are descended from people who came out of Africa. We are all the same species. "Race" is a concept that has little or no meaning in Science. A group of white supremacists who misunderstood Darwin's work came up with a faux science "eugenics" which has about as much validity as the other notable faux science "Creationism". Eugenics theory was a simple extrapolation of selective breeding that had been successful in domesticated animals and crops. The obvious flaw was that caucasians have no supportable claim to superiority over any other racial group but that didn't stop Christians from continuing slavery of other races whom they considered sub-human. We share 98% of the same genes with Gorillas and some other great apes and it is hard enough to claim superiority over them.

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

Well, I'll tell you what I believe: I believe this thread has become nauseatingly boring.

 

 

[AVOCET]

these late night rants are becomming tiresome ,

 

Is this realy you talking or what ?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I don't get this line of thinking from you evolutionists. It seems if you actually believed your own theory it would instead be - "why bother about endangered species at all when they simply aren't up to it. Let them die out naturally and a superior species will come along to replace them." That's how it's claimed to work, right?

 

You are probably quite right, GG. If we humans don't reduce our impact on nature then natural selection will indeed triumph, and new species will fill the gaps left be our demise. Japanese fishermen already see this where overfishing has allowed giant jellyfish to infest their old fishing grounds.

 

...prophecy in Matthew 24 "for then shall there be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be; and if those days had not been cut short, no flesh had been saved; but on account of the elect those days shall be cut short"

Crickey GG, I have enough intelligence to have achieved quite a bit in my life, but the meaning of this is lost on me... and I bet the original version made even less sense.

 

 

[AVOCET]

Well, I'll tell you what I believe: I believe this thread has become nauseatingly boring.

I just noticed our last posts have the same time post ,

 

Great minds ?

 

 

[facthunter]

If what is proposed doesn't permit you to evaluate for yourself, but rely on faith alone, what is the point of having a brain to think with. BLIND faith doesn't work in daily happenings .Why is it essential when dealing with the spiritual? Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I just noticed our last posts have the same time post ,Great minds ?

...or one of Sheldrake's Morphic Fields getting stronger.

 

 

[AVOCET]

I

 

...or one of Sheldrake's Morphic Fields getting stronger.

I recon there should be a prize , what are the odds , and just image the intrigue if those two time codes were 42 . Hang on its 47 & 48 now ?

 

Whats go'in on?

 

Sounds like a conspirocy !!!

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

No, none of that; I suggest the man is mentally disturbed, and in great pain. The condition is becoming recognised - see, for example, http://new.exchristian.net/2011/06/religious-trauma-syndrome-its-time-to.html . The fact that he started this thread, and is so stubbornly sticking to irrational arguments shows that; and we aren't helping him. One of my nieces has a similar problem. She's starting to write aggressive internet articles, too.

 

He may perhaps need to get medical advice re some tranquilizing prescription to ease the stress whilst he's dealing with this - see http://www.helpguide.org/articles/ptsd-trauma/post-traumatic-stress-disorder.htm#getting_help

 

I'm NOT trying to be sarcastic or funny about this; it's no laughing matter.

 

 

[turboplanner]

If you're bored Dafydd why not look at other threads for forget about the internet. Just don't write the poison you just wrote, it's just plain bloody disgusting.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Nikola Tesla found a way to transmit electricity through the air - I think lighting globes up about 18 miles away then built this tower.http://www.teslasociety.com/tesla_tower.htm

Geoffrey, would you mind explaining what's funny about this post, since it's fact?

 

 

[Dafydd Llewellyn]

No, Turbs; whilst the ongoing endless repetition of the various arguments is getting tiresome, there has to be a reason for the bitterness. I've come across the argument that religious irrationality (for want of a better or more accurate term) may be a form of PTSD; and I thought the suggestion to look at this aspect might help. When somebody has such a head of steam up, he's not doing himself any good. The argument I'm seeing in this thread isn't doing anything to reduce that; and laying awake wondering about this led me to that thought. If you find that disgusting, that's your problem.

 

 

[turboplanner]

No it's not my problem, it's a matter of common decency.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Speaking of the existence of souls, it seems the religious people divide the world's populace into unbelievers "are not souls" and believers "are souls". The "are souls" get to go to heaven.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Where do you stand on other well accepted scientific theories, General and Special Theories of Relativity? Lewis Theory of Bonding? Germ Theory? Quantum Theory?

Do you feel discussing other unrelated topics will cure my condition Dr Freud?

 

Don't be a denier, Darwinian evolution theory is broken - disproved by modern science.... no examples of one species transforming into another different species, no examples of genetic information being added into DNA, utterly impossible mathematically given what we now know of the complexity of life. 'DET' is a quaint, old fashioned notion you are clutching to. From a mathematical probability and scientific aspect it is more logical to believe life came from alien spawn than started from nothing by an explosion caused by nothing that turned into everything. Open your mind octave! Don't be satisfied with one octave, go full spectrum!

 

 

[facthunter]

You had better educate the current POPE, GG. He has had a few things to say about this recently. Very progressive Pope. Is he popular with you? Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

You had better educate the current POPE, GG. He has had a few things to say about this recently. Very progressive Pope. Is he popular with you? Nev

You might like to study what he said FH and where he is positioning the Catholic Church.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Crickey GG, I have enough intelligence to have achieved quite a bit in my life, but the meaning of this is lost on me... and I bet the original version made even less sense.

O.K. in a nutshell what I understand Jesus was saying is that a time of extreme 'tribulation' in the world is coming when the unrest / war / violence between mankind will be so great that finally God will step in to stop it for if he didn't all mankind on earth would likely die.

 

Matthew 24 "for then shall there be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be; and if those days had not been cut short, no flesh had been saved; but on account of the elect those days shall be cut short"

 

 

[octave]

GG this is simply not true not matter how many times you say it. Can you name a university Biology that teaches that evolution has been superseded? You say this has been discredited by modern science then it should be very easy for you to provide links to science journal articles.

 

Re transitional species, would you care to comment on these? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils

 

Mutations happen all the time - Flu Virus?

 

Open my mind? I have been interested in science for many years (especially astronomy) during this time the accepted knowledge has changd as more data has been collected, I do not cling to the cosmology that I read about in my youth, the exciting thing about science is that it does evolve as more discoveries are made.

 

"utterly impossible mathematically given what we now know of the complexity of life. 'DET'

 

Please point me in the direction of the evidence for this statement. What is the nature of the "mathematics"

 

If you do not accept the evidence that is fine but when you make the assertion that Evolution has been tossed out of the Biology, Paleontology, Genetic and Medical Degree courses then you have been mislead or are trying to mislead.

 

The proposition that you have faith in a god is something I can not argue with and indeed do not wish to argue with. The problem with your brand of faith is it seems to require a denial of modern knowledge, I would suggest that many young people at school or university who could go either way with regards to faith when faced with a choice between a literal interpretation of an ancient text or a science degree will make the obvious choice.

[octave]

You might like to study what he said FH and where he is positioning the Catholic Church.

This is not new for the catholic church

 

In the 1950 encyclicalHumani generis,Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation byGod and not the product of purely material forces.[1]

 

this Pope didn't say anything new.

 

for a list of churches that accept evolution

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptance_of_evolution_by_religious_groups