Bikky Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Several faiths can be traced back to the same God, (which strengthens any doubt about God existing) ... certainly strengthens my doubt, if that's possible! Are you inferring that this "god" idea is like a Chinese whisper?
DonRamsay Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Turbs, that is a bit of a copout. The reality that GG needs settled is whether or not the God he believes in is the same one that Muslims believe in. I think he accepts that it is the same one those of the Jewish faith believe in but suffers from this inexplicable delusion that Allah and Yaweh are not the same and that somehow the God of Muslims resides in Hell. He really needs help.
turboplanner Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Yes it is baseless because of the covert nature of stone cutting there is no reliable base to work from. However, it is, I believe, a widely held view that the advantages that flow from mutual back-scratching is the big attraction for many masons. Buy the book, all will be explained, and you'll be happy. Have a look at the demographics of their membership - older even than Recreational Aviation and getting older by the day. The Grand Master down here is quite young for the seniority of that office, and judging by the Facebook comments and contents young ones are still coming through Not invented by JC and carried on by Peter and those who walked in the shoes of the fisherman? Although discovered in 1947, the Dead Sea Scrolls are still in the process of being translated today, but so far it appears that he himself never made the outlandish claims that Saul did, and I think we covered (albeit very briefly) the false claims of succession. The teachings of Jesus make a lot of sense and are very similar to other Nasorean teachings (he was a Nasorean), and had much the same themes as the Viracochas taught in South America. Been any recent examples of persecution of Masons by Catholics recently? I know there is no love lost between them but shouldn't both sides just get over it now? The Masons went quiet for a few centuries and in England lifted their profile again, I think from the 1800's. I'm not aware of any persecution. So, all we need is for Gorbachev to join the Masons and introduce them to the concepts of Glasnost (openness) and Perestroika (restructuring)? Perhaps it is time to lose the silly dress-ups and secrecy. As an Atheist, you are bound to deny the existence of God, whereas they acknowledge the existence of God, so naturally I would expect you to agitate for that.
turboplanner Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 ... certainly strengthens my doubt, if that's possible! Are you inferring that this "god" idea is like a Chinese whisper? Not at all. If several religions worship the same God they are all in direct contact, not serial contact.
turboplanner Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Turbs, that is a bit of a copout. The reality that GG needs settled is whether or not the God he believes in is the same one that Muslims believe in. I think he accepts that it is the same one those of the Jewish faith believe in but suffers from this inexplicable delusion that Allah and Yaweh are not the same and that somehow the God of Muslims resides in Hell. He really needs help. It was a bit of a copout because I read the details about ten years ago and I've forgotten the details, other than what I just said.
facthunter Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Ne need for formal churches then?. Christ said wherever some are gathered in his name he will be there for them. Nev
Bikky Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 An atheist isn't bound to deny anything. I don't believe in nostril fairies, unicorns, or anything that has no basis in fact. I simply can't believe in something just because people say it is so, even if I wanted to. I need cold, hard evidence, which in the case for arguing there is a god or gods, simply does not exist. If it did, I would believe. Quite simple really.
turboplanner Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Ne need for formal churches then?. Christ said wherever some are gathered in his name he will be there for them. Nev Not for me, and not for many
AVOCET Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Ne need for formal churches then?. Christ said wherever some are gathered in his name he will be there for them. Nev At last , you get it . Its about how you live your life and get on with your neighbour , When jesus implied this , some smart ass religious nut chalanged him as said Who is my Neighbour ? Mike
facthunter Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Your neighbour is the one who's wife, ass, and a few other things you are not allowed to covet. As for belief in a supernatural being, It's a bit like coming to a deep canyon and there is a raging river down below. People over the other side.are saying "just believe hard enough and a bridge will be there to carry you safely across. It worked for us" .. I would rather be able to see and touch it and makes sure it was built properly.. Especially if lots of others had been promising the same result from different bridges that were invisible too.. Nev.
turboplanner Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 An atheist isn't bound to deny anything. I don't believe in nostril fairies, unicorns, or anything that has no basis in fact. I simply can't believe in something just because people say it is so, even if I wanted to.I need cold, hard evidence, which in the case for arguing there is a god or gods, simply does not exist. If it did, I would believe. Quite simple really. There are no worm holes in this Bikky, you either believe or you don't, and your posts fit the definition
turboplanner Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 It's a bit like coming to a deep canyon and there is a raging river down below. People over the other side.are saying "just believe hard enough and a bridge will be there to carry you safely across. It worked for us" .. I would rather be able to see and touch it and makes sure it was built properly.. Especially if lots of others had been promising the same result from different bridges that were invisible too.. Nev. Best post I've seen from you in months.
Marty_d Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 At last , you get it .Its about how you live your life and get on with your neighbour , When jesus implied this , some smart ass religious nut chalanged him as said Who is my Neighbour ? Mike Is that the one that says something about "love thy neighbour as thyself" (quoting from memory here). But if you were into sado-masochism, wouldn't that get you into trouble??
facthunter Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Not if you were compatible. (Thinking it through , not speaking from experience). Though... It might be a purer form of torture than realising you are a poor miserable wretch incapable of not sinning all the time and likely to be eternally damned in a hell of fire and brimstone where there will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth. That doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. Nev
Old Koreelah Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 ...Both the Imperial and Metric systems, and some other trace back to a single system (ironically the Imperial system is far more realistic than metric)... At last! A chance to argue about something new! The metric system was all based on the size of the earth. One metre used to be defined as one ten-millionth of the distance from the North Pole to the equator, thru the longitude of, from memory, Brest. Every measurement derived from that; a tenth of that metre cubed was a litre. A litre of water weighed a kilogram. One hundredth of a metre was a centimetre. A cubic centimetre of water weighed a gram, and the energy enquired to heat it thru 1 degree Celsius was one calorie.... A totally simple and inter-related system that (it pains me to admit) was given to us by the French. A couple of centuries later the Americans are still holding the world back with their refusal to adopt this elegantly system. And now, Turbs, you tell me the Imperial System is more realistic. How so? An interesting "anomaly" is that the metric system gives the earth's circumference as 40,000,000 km. I believe it was the Babylonians who gave us 360 degrees to a circle; divide that 40,000 by 360 and see what you get. AFAIK two totally independently-derived systems of measurement as well!
Old Koreelah Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 ...But if you were into sado-masochism, wouldn't that get you into trouble?? You've probably heard the old one about the Masochist who said "beat me" - and the Sadist who refused.
turboplanner Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Well OK, after a few of your posts you are just going to have to do the research and receive the revelation yourself.
Old Koreelah Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 111,111,111.111Dont get it ? Neither do I. (Whoops, I got carried away. Only 40,000km around the earth.)
DonRamsay Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Turbs, you are doing a fantastic job of batting back everything thrown your way without help from anyone much. However, I have to take exception to "As an Atheist, you are bound to deny the existence of God". As an Atheist I am able to live my life without reference to any of the thousands of gods dreamed up by men over the millennia. I have no need or desire to deny the existence of any of these gods. I feel zero compunction to relieve believers of their particular faith. I am comfortable in my godless state and don't need to be surrounded by other infidels or have everyone in the world achieve a similar level of rationality. Each to his own. I only ask that theists do not try and ram their personal beliefs down my throat or require me to live my life according to anything other than sound ethics. I am particularly aggrieved by Theists who feel they have the right to punish me for not believing or respecting their particular deity or deities. (deleted - too personal to share)
rgmwa Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Turbs, you are doing a fantastic job of batting back everything thrown your way without help from anyone much. Yes, I agree but he's providing such a torrent of information that I can't keep up with it all, and don't have the in-depth knowledge to separate fact from fiction. One day when I've retired I may have the time to study it in more detail. Looks like it might help if I was a Mason too, but alas, not much chance of getting an invitation in the mail anytime soon. My cousin is though, so maybe I'll ask him. rgmwa
AVOCET Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 Its starting to sound like that old cracked record again , must be the time of day , or night . Nobody's trying to ram anything down anyone's throat . Feel free to not read any more , or not post , Its sounds like to me that its hit a nerve , as they say , or in my case it was conviction . In my experiance , the harder people resist , the bigger the revelation when and if , you finally humble yourself and the big G finally decides to reveal him or her self , ( genderless i would imagine ) to you . Theres nothing that can compare on this earth . Just sayin , not bible bashing . Mike .
DonRamsay Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 I prefer the logic to endless facts. In the end it is pretty simple and you don't need to know the contents of the Library of Congress to know that faith by definition just requires acceptance without evidence. Turbo is scratching around and finding stuff that hints in a particular direction - searching for facts to support his hypothesis rather than looking at all the evidence and accepting that there is none that stands any test. There is no compelling evidence for the existence of any of the thousands of man made Gods - if there were evidence then atheism would be illogical and there would be no need for blind faith. But we are all, in this country at least, free to believe what we like to believe or know what we can know. The end.
Bikky Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 In my experiance , the harder people resist , the bigger the revelation when and if , you finally humble yourself and the big G finally decides to reveal him or her self , ( genderless i would imagine ) to you . Revelation. That would be great and I would welcome it but ... 55 years have passed and it hasn't happened. I don't think I'll waste any time waiting. Too many joyous, beautiful, inspiring and real things to enjoy and appreciate. I'd better get of the computer - I'm being harassed by a pair of humming birds that want their nectar feeder refilled. It's a hard life! [ATTACH]47494._xfImport[/ATTACH]
rgmwa Posted November 9, 2014 Posted November 9, 2014 The end. Amen! At least I think that's how it goes. rgmwa
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