Atheist knowledge

[DonRamsay]

Mike, I was very religious once. I studied Christian Doctrine extensively and was pretty good at it. I enjoyed being religious. It can be very uplifting and completes everything. All questions are answered and all the dots are connected. Anything that seems at odds with God's great goodness (like Ebola and bugs that eat eyeballs in the living and the suffering of children with terrible cancers) is just explained away as "God works in mysterious ways" or its the work of the Devil. Too easy. I wasn't a christian because I feared the Lord, I loved being a Christian. The Sermon on the Mount brought tears to my eyes.

 

But then I chose to think rather than just accept everything I had been told. For me reason and rational behaviour is important. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy the beauty of music or the feel for an animal released from a death sentence and welcomed into a new family as a "rescue" pet. It doesn't mean I don't have a purpose in life. It does mean I don't think this is a dress rehearsal and if I stuff it up it doesn't matter because all will be better in the next life. I only get one crack at life and I have to get the best out of my one go at it. Ashes to ashes dust to dust.

 

 

[facthunter]

You learn a lot working late like this. I went out for a pee and there was an animal in the trees I've never heard before. If I'd gone to bed at the normal time I'd still be ignorant of it's existence. That was a revelation too for me. Nev

 

 

[AVOCET]

Im a one finger typist on an i phone ,

 

Every second word i have to correct .

 

I carnt realy express myself or defend what i have come to know .

 

But i do no this , as you have found religeon to be , so have i ,

 

I look forward to meating in person one day soon and maybe over a nice red or two have a meal and a chat ,

 

Regards mike

 

 

[rgmwa]

The impression I get is that Mike's talking about religious experience as the basis for belief, rather than learned religion, which would make it a very personal and non-denominational view of Life, the Universe and Everything. Could be wrong of course.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[rgmwa]

You learn a lot working late like this. I went out for a pee and there was an animal in the trees I've never heard before. If I'd gone to bed at the normal time I'd still be ignorant of it's existence. That was a revelation too for me. Nev

The Lord works in mysterious ways, Nev.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[AVOCET]

The impression I get is that Mike's talking about religious experience as the basis for belief, rather than learned religion, which would make it a very personal and non-denominational view of Life, the Universe and Everything. Could be wrong of course.rgmwa

One last story before i go and shoot some pesky rabbits ,

 

One example ( many over the years ) was i was offered a job to make a set of bevel gears for Bonnell brothers at Bundaberg

 

Cast gears need a pattern to be made of each gear . I had been making furniture for years and hadn't done much engineering work ,ide mever made a set of gears .

 

Because i needed the work i took the job on , and on the way back to the workshop i had a bit of a prayer ,

 

I said : qote ; Lord , if you want me to do this job you'll have to give me this knowledge , or send some one to help me ,

 

Within half an hour of staring at the specs , i sat down on the floor and ( woe is me )

 

An old bloke walked in lookong for the bloke next door , looked on my bench and said : Involute bevel gears ,

 

Isaid do you lnow how to set one out ?

 

He said drop by home and ill get my old books out ,

 

The example he had in his 1933 engineering book was exacly the the specs i needed ,( they have to set out and made in pairs so they mesh properly)

 

Coincidence ? , may be to most , but as i said , this has been the story of my life

 

Its been one provision after the other .

 

Mike

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I carnt believe i said that .

 

And i carnt believe i just replied to my own post !

I wouldn't worry too much about that mate. . . . . . . I talk to myself a lot as I get older. . . . .

 

Phil

 

 

[bexrbetter]

You learn a lot working late like this. I went out for a pee and there was an animal in the trees I've never heard before

If I was asleep in my tree and you came out and starting pissing on my tree I would make a few sounds you might not have heard before too!

 

Your neighbor is the one who's wife, ass, and a few other things you are not allowed to covet.

Are you sure you got the punctuation correct in that sentence?

 

. . . . . . I talk to myself a lot as I get older. . . .

Sorry, did you say something Phil?

 

 

[turboplanner]

However, I have to take exception to "As an Atheist, you are bound to deny the existence of God".

Definition from the New Collins Dictionery - Atheist: "one who denies the existence of God"

 

And the atheists in this thread, including yourself fit this definition very well.

 

I don't have a problem if an atheist says he doesn't believe in God, but none of them in this thread have just left it at that.

 

As an Atheist I am able to live my life without reference to any of the thousands of gods dreamed up by men over the millennia.

You've made constant reference to them, taking advantage of every irrelevancy in the book; most of the rest of us understand for example that the Roman gods had no substance, and so eventually did the Romans.

 

I feel zero compunction to relieve believers of their particular faith.

After being told about inaccuracies in the Bible, you've used lteral quoes of nonsensical passages to try to do just that.

 

I am comfortable in my godless state and don't need to be surrounded by other infidels or have everyone in the world achieve a similar level of rationality.

Always the spike at the end.

 

You are free to be comfortable in your Godless state, but you imply that I am not rational, and that's typical of the atheist that doesn't know what he doesn't know.

 

Each to his own. I only ask that theists do not try and ram their personal beliefs down my throat or require me to live my life according to anything other than sound ethics. I am particularly aggrieved by Theists who feel they have the right to punish me for not believing or respecting their particular deity or deities.

That sound very much to me like a bad experience with Catholics, but certainly some religious people, usually those who have picked up a little lingo, believe they should go out into the world and convert people, which would be fine if they got their stories correct, and I agree they are a nuisance.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes, I agree but he's providing such a torrent of information that I can't keep up with it all, and don't have the in-depth knowledge to separate fact from fiction. One day when I've retired I may have the time to study it in more detail. Looks like it might help if I was a Mason too, but alas, not much chance of getting an invitation in the mail anytime soon. My cousin is though, so maybe I'll ask him.rgmwa

So far I've referenced less than 1% of my library, so I agree it would be overwhelming, but really all I've suggested is:

 

• that the Bible has been written by so many people and translated so many times, that you have to be careful about, and question a lot of the content, yet much of the Bible has now been verified as very accurate, and is being corroborated right now, and I posted a corroborated fact (I forget which one, but it's there)
   
  
• that the old testament is the most accurate, and that the older versions of the Bible, written contemporary with events will be more accurate that the other parts written a thousand years later.
   
  
• that Christianity post Christ is so inaccurate that it needs a complete revisit, and in any case has no bearing on deciding whether you're an atheist or whether you believe in God.
   
  
• that there are signs that God does exist
   
  

 

There are more signs, as we go further back BC

 

The problem, when we are talking about God, is that to the human mind today he is intangible - at the end of this thread we are not going to come to a little house in Norway and see a bearded man.

 

Facthunter hit the nail on the head with this:

 

"As for belief in a supernatural being, It's a bit like coming to a deep canyon and there is a raging river down below. People over the other side.are saying "just believe hard enough and a bridge will be there to carry you safely across. It worked for us" .. I would rather be able to see and touch it and makes sure it was built properly.. Especially if lots of others had been promising the same result from different bridges that were invisible too."

 

Mike's experience is interesting, it's fits into the "Angel" category which has been reported many times over the centuries.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Looks like it might help if I was a Mason too

I must apologise to the Freemasons for dragging them into this, but as I see it, the only way they fit into this thread is that they require a belief in God, and from my research originated from William St Clair swearing them very successful to silence at a time when the Roman Church would have killed the lot and destroyed what knowledge of the Jerusalem/Nasorean Church they could find.

 

It was the Knights Templar who play the main part in this story rather than the designers and builders of Roslyn Chapel.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Which one? You can't avoid the essential problem, if we are going down that road. There's lots of different gods, but the people differ very little. Nev

Yep, the bit where the elders bang little boys and girls seems to be fairly universal! Very sad.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

[quote="bexrbetter, post: 457966, member: 8594"

 

Sorry, did you say something Phil?

 

Not as I can recall,. . . . . but the Missus says I talk a lot when I'm asleep. . . . . . . . which is why I've had to adopt a single room and lock the door at night. . . . . . .

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...Mike's experience is interesting, it's fits into the "Angel" category which has been reported many times over the centuries.

I'd love to believe in Angels but maybe he tapped into one of Sheldrake's Morphic Fields - the one for designing Involute bevel gears- and another bloke nearby felt the "connection".

 

More evidence: Plenty of people (particularly from cultures less dependant on technology) have reported "knowing" about the death of a loved one long before hearing about it thru more accepts channels.

 

 

[skeptic36]

Facthunter hit the nail on the head with this:

 

"As for belief in a supernatural being, It's a bit like coming to a deep canyon and there is a raging river down below. People over the other side.are saying "just believe hard enough and a bridge will be there to carry you safely across. It worked for us" .. I would rather be able to see and touch it and makes sure it was built properly.. Especially if lots of others had been promising the same result from different bridges that were invisible too."

Except for the part about the people saying "it worked for us". Where are these people? That's right they're all dead and dead men don't say much.

 

It is part of what I can't come to terms with about God, there is no sense of fairness in the way the world operates. Why did those lucky enough to be born in Christs time get to see a couple of fish and a loaf of bread feed thousands, Moses part the Red Sea right in front of a lot of people, we don't see any of that today and yet are still expected to believe.

 

Why was I born in Australia where I can feed myself and have money left over for an iPad so I can waste time on this crap, while the little kid in Bangladesh or somewhere has to search through the swamp to find a rat to eat. Again, not fair.....

 

 

[Marty_d]

• that there are signs that God does exist
  

 

Such as?

 

..the "Angel" category which has been reported many times over the centuries.

Probing by aliens has also been reported many times in the last few decades, however if there was other intelligent life in the universe, I can't see them wanting to travel for light years in order to play "hide the probe" with mid-western hillbillies.

 

 

[octave]

.I don't have a problem if an atheist says he doesn't believe in God, but none of them in this thread have just left it at that.

I don't have a problem if a theist says he believes in God, but none of them in this thread have just left it at that.

 

This thread started with a "aren't atheists smug and stupid" joke, this caused comment on both sides of the fence.

 

As a non believer or atheist I do not have an agenda to go around trying to convert believers. Don't confuse reacting to believers assertions with an agenda of conversion. Whilst no doubt there are atheists who do have an agenda, I don't recall any atheist missionaries knocking on my door.

 

Personal beliefs are not something I can argue against but assertions of fact are always up to challenge. If someone does not believe in a particular scientific theory that is fine, no problem but if they then go on to assert that said scientific theory has been discredited then that can be challenged, it is fair in this circumstance to ask for the evidence behind the assertion.

 

As an example the assertion that there are no transitional fossils, I posted a link with a huge list, I was hoping for a well argued rebuttal and all I got was a restating of the original proposition.

 

Historically religion in this country has had a privileged position, as we become a more open and enlightened these areas will of course be questioned. Don't confuse the erosion historic privilege with some kind of oppression. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts.

 

After being told about inaccuracies in the Bible, you've used literal quotes of nonsensical passages to try to do just that.

 

.

This is very frustrating. I don't know any atheist who makes a habit of quoting scripture for the sake of it. The only time I would quote scripture would be in response to someone quoting it to me. Personally I would much rather be reading the latest issue on New Scientist than trawling the bible, but if a believer tells me I shouldn't do or think x because it says in the bible then I feel entitled to say "but doesn't it also say you should do or think y". I find it amazing that the word of god is so open to interpretation.

 

 

[AVOCET]

SKEPTIC said :Why was I born in Australia where I can feed myself and have money left over for an iPad so I can waste time on this crap,while the little kid in Bangladesh or somewhere has to search through theswamp to find a rat to eat. Again, not fair. QUOTE :

 

In the OT its suggested that God "TRIES our reins ( horses reins)

 

Maybe ,as there is enough prosperity in this world to cloth and feed and house every one so we could all live confortable .

 

If there is a God and a judgment day ,

 

Theres gona be a lot of red faces ,when it comes down to who had what , and what they did with it .

 

So much spent on Posturing's and the Military ,( list goes on) and the like .

 

Not saying that any one can do much about it on there own .

 

This question was leveled at Jesus ,

 

When folk asked him anout the tower that fell on and killed innocent people ,

 

His answer was ; ( look it up for your self ). Tower of siloham ? NT

 

Mike

 

Ps no spell check

 

 

[fly_tornado]

GNu this will blow your mind

 

 

[AVOCET]

This is just an example of using superstitious dogma in advertising to sell a can of drink ,

 

Its cool and trendy , harry p and the like .

 

Ide say the advertising agency that got the contract , would be in for a nice bonus .$$$$$$$

 

Mike

 

 

[Marty_d]

GNu this will blow your mind

Love it.

 

The funny thing about looking for "signs and portents" is you can always find them!

 

One of my cousins was (probably still is) very religious, I remember him telling me about band names - he was sure AC/DC stood for "Anti Christ/Devil's Children" and KISS stood for "Kings in Satan's Service".

 

What I want to know is, how does a sheltered woman like that know what "MILF" means? Surely no good christian would watch "American Pie"!

 

 

[AVOCET]

MILF ?

 

Please enlighten me .

 

Only found out what BLING ment the other day ,

 

At this rate ill be litterate by the end of tha week !

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Avocet, it might be GILF for you

 

 

[AVOCET]

Avocet, it might be GILF for you

Still dont get it ,

 

Spell it out , if ypu cam

 

 

[fly_tornado]

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