Atheist knowledge

[octave]

God-haters like yourself have been around a long time. In other news water is wet. The sky is blue.

What makes you think I hate your god? What I feel about your god is probably similar to what you feel about Thor or Hermes, in relation to these gods you are probably agnostic or even atheist. I am sure if we compared a list of gods we both don't believe in it would be identical except that my list would have one extra god.

 

 

[Bikky]

There are different types of atheist just as there are different types of believers.

 

I was born atheist and I (like many others) am happy to let people believe what they have been told - IF those beliefs aren't pushed down everyone's throats, or stated as being the divine truth.

 

Some atheists, are by nature, far more militant in words and actions against religion. Being born into a religious families and indoctrinated at an early age, they discovered the hard way that they were misled. These "born again" atheists have a legitimate axe to grind.

 

Ask them why they lost their religion. Many have interesting and tragic stories to tell. God wasn't there for them when they needed him/her/it.

 

The latter category are more militant by nature for good reason. Nobody likes being lied to.

 

I'm happy to let people believe what they choose, even though I find choosing to believe something contrary to my nature.

 

But please - keep it real! Don't ignore basic truths. Mentioning Darwin's name and his theory in arguments for the existence of a deity, is displaying a certain amount of ignorance. Ignorance is forgivable if it's not chosen.

 

Understand what a theory is. Look it up. It's not a law. There is a hierarchy here.

 

Hypothesis - gods might exist

 

Theory - evolution

 

Law - gravity

 

 

[facthunter]

Don, many civilisations didn't last long. Despite their wondrous achievements, particularly architecturally, They tended to fall into an unmanageable condition after a few hundred years. They had to be walled and defended.

 

North American Indians and Australian aborigines have stories about natural geographical features that defy belief in some ways. Recently I was exposed to a few "dreamtime stories" and like you would, (I presume) find them somewhat unbelievable, and I am at a loss to understand how any person would give them credibility as being what actually happened long ago.. It's all about the land and how the people relate to each other. There are strict rules about who can associate etc They seem like the folk lore stuff you would sing you kids to sleep with, but that is part of their culture. I wouldn't want to insult them by discussing it unless invited and I don't think that would be likely in most cases. Nev

 

 

[Bikky]

Recently I was exposed to a few "dreamtime stories" and like you would, (I presume) find them somewhat unbelievable, and I am at a loss to understand how any person would give them credibility as being what actually happened long ago.

Hit the nail on the head!

 

Very important to separate allegory from fact.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's suggested that many biblical ones are not to be taken literally too. Like loaves and fishes, walking on water. Who knows?. Everyone picks the bit that suites THEM. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Can't wait for the last post . . . anyone any good with a bugle?

...or will it be like an eBay auction, with 45,000 fingers poised over the "Post Reply" button?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Hey Turbo. How many books have you got in your library? It must rival the ancient one at Alexandria.rgmwa

. Seven bays of library and about 80,000 files. The books I'm quoting from aren't novels either. Fingerprints of the Gods has 1298 references involving 216 books.

It was good today to read about the translation from Amreic on Mary Magdalene, and even this thread has given me something to think about with Chartres Cathedral containing sacred VHC dimensions, and an Egyptian Ark looking a good match for the one carried by Moses..

 

 

[horsefeathers]

Yes I got it, YAY!

Worship me!!

So, you're now a God???

 

But I dont believe in gods.

 

Therefore you cannot exist.

 

byeeeee....

 

 

[DonRamsay]

He's a God in China!

 

 

[fly_tornado]

god like features at a bargain basement price

 

 

[bexrbetter]

So, you're now a God???

I am the God of thy 1000 posteths.

 

And remember, envy is a sin.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I picked you for an architect or engineer Marty, which is why I spent a lot of time on you, but I'm up to speed now.You're welcome to your beliefs.

 

Let's not get ahead of ourselves with Dorothy Dixers about the Neteru - we've only just started to work back from Christianity.

 

I agree the people who believe Hubbard are nuts, but there are others who don't believe anything.

Hmmm. Don't think I ever lied about my qualifications, so I'm not sure if you're expecting me to apologise for the amount of time you spent on me, but whatever. (I do have a Cert IV in residential drafting and plenty of real-world building experience, together with a keen interest in both architecture and structural engineering, but no, I've never attended university.)

 

I think you mean "You're welcome to your lack of belief."

 

But your last sentence is the corker and thank you for proving my point.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I am the God of thy 1000 posteths.

And remember, envy is a sin.

It's what Julie Bishop was calling him the other night, anyway...

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

. Seven bays of library and about 80,000 files. The books I'm quoting from aren't novels either. Fingerprints of the Gods has 1298 references involving 216 books.

It was good today to read about the translation from Amreic ...

Aramaic is said to be the modern language nearest to what Jesus spoke. There are heartening reports of the inter-religious tolerance amoung speakers of this ancient language. Religious crazies have already destroyed much of the cultural heritage of Syria. As the modern custodians of the language, they should be valued by the world. Hopefully they and their language can survive this current disaster.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Hmmm. Don't think I ever lied about my qualifications, so I'm not sure if you're expecting me to apologise for the amount of time you spent on me, but whatever. (I do have a Cert IV in residential drafting and plenty of real-world building experience, together with a keen interest in both architecture and structural engineering, but no, I've never attended university.)I think you mean "You're welcome to your lack of belief."

 

But your last sentence is the corker and thank you for proving my point.

I wasn't looking for qualifications or payback for the time spent. I'm going over there for the sacred measurements and how that fits in with the VHC.

 

With drafting you'd know it is tedious making sure each separate component fits, working how parts will be assembled etc and that takes time. It takes me 3 years to design a truck from existing components, so I thought the timeline for the first Gothic building in Paris would ring bells that something was going on. You haven't understood the last sentence.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

This is an interesting story about a brave young girl who escaped North Korea with its totalitarian atheist government. The God-haters here are free to mock (a sign of the days we live in) but history shows no government is worse, no country less free than an atheist run one. Sure, like Moslems, a percentage of individual athi's are not fundamentalists and are nice people but the big picture is a nasty one unfortunately. Just reminding

 

[Bikky]

history shows no government is worse, no country less free than an atheist run one

Whose history would that be? Citing North Korea, led by a rusted on, closed minded despot who knows that any belief differing from his own is heresy, is a poor example.

 

Atheists and agnostics have borne the brunt of religious persecution in way more countries - not just historically but currently.

 

Wars are being fought today because people are 100% sure that their god is the only god.

 

Do you really believe that atheists support totalitarian regimes? Ask around, you might be surprised.

 

As an atheist, I want the freedom not to believe in a deity. I don't see why this is so difficult for believers to grasp.

 

It's only heresy to you. Atheists don't believe in heresy. Morality is more important.

 

Show me one religion where women are granted the same status and rights as men. I'm waiting for a black, female pope.

 

For women to be given the right to decide whether abortion is for them - whether I agree with it or not.

 

For African catholics to be given the right to practice birth control.

 

For decisions regarding adoption of religious beliefs to be left until adulthood.

 

Could be waiting a long time methinks ...

 

 

[Bikky]

By the way, I don't hate gods - no more than I hate unicorns or fairies.

 

I just don't believe in gods. It's a difficult concept isn't it?

 

I do however, hate what people feel compelled to do in the name of their chosen god.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

This is an interesting story about a brave young girl who escaped North Korea with its totalitarian atheist government. The God-haters here are free to mock (a sign of the days we live in) but history shows no government is worse, no country less free than an atheist run one.

So, what you are telling us GG is that people who live in a country ruled by a totalitarian government do not enjoy much freedom? Well there's a shock!

 

You don't have to be an atheist to be a Dictator and run a totalitarian government.

 

So, if it is a Theist totalitarian government, then everyone is free to do and say as they please? Like in the Theist dictatorship of Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia?

 

And of course, democratically elected Christian governments (like you would find in Serbia) never commit genocide or conduct a "holy war" ("Jihad" in Arabic) against people who are not of the same religious persuasion? Give me a break!

 

And the predominantly Christian Germany didn't murder 6 million Jews plus a few mentally ill and a heap of Gypsies and all the homosexuals they could find?

 

How about his catholic majesty General Franco in Spain? Lovely Christian fellow who ran a dictatorship with all the ruthlessness of a Roman Ceasar. Or what about General Peron in Argentina who used to throw his opponents out of planes at 10,000 feet AMSL? Or the very Christian General Pinochet in Chile who did much the same sort of thing.

 

Now I'll let you in on a secret if you promise not to tell anyone. Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama are closet atheists. In the USA the persecution of Atheists is such that nobody can admit to being one without suffering a severe backlash from the religious fundamentalists of the extreme right. Are you OK with that?

 

As usual GG, you mix up totalitarian and atheism. They are not synonyms.

 

Compared to North Korea "the most repressive state on the planet" what could be worse? Let's start with Syria? They could teach the North Koreans a thing or two about torture. Could there be a more dangerous country to live in? And it is run by fervent Theists with more fundamentalist God Botherers trying to replace them. Then there are the Theists who control Iran and who worship the same God as you and think nothing of hanging blasphemers from a mobile hydraulic crane in the middle of Tehran. Doesn't sound like freedom to me.

 

Then there is the very Christian Serbia that practiced genocide against Muslims until the good Christians were bombed into submission by that Godless Communist organisation "NATO".

 

GG, please don't just swallow everything your born again american evangelists tell you about "Godless Communism". The two terms can exist independently of one another and while most Communist governments were corrupted by absolute power the same thing happens in most theist states where power becomes concentrated in the hands of one person or just a few.

 

Look at Ho Chi Minh, a communist but a wonderful human being who did great good for his people despite the best efforts of the Christian French and born again Americans. Ho had helped the USA's OSS fighting the Japanese during WWII. The US promised Uncle Ho a unified Vietnam under his leadership after the war. But, when the war ended the scummy French wanted their IndoChina colonies back and the USA caved in to them. Result? Millions died in Indochina, mostly Vietnamese but 50,000 Americans and 500 Australians as well. And why? Because the Americans hated Godless Communists. Ho did a wonderful job for his people once he'd beaten the French, Americans, ANZACS and liberated his country from the totally corrupt regime in the South.

 

Try thinking for yourself GG not just swallowing the propaganda of the faithful.

 

 

[Marty_d]

This is an interesting story about a brave young girl who escaped North Korea with its totalitarian atheist government. The God-haters here are free to mock (a sign of the days we live in) but history shows no government is worse, no country less free than an atheist run one. Sure, like Moslems, a percentage of individual athi's are not fundamentalists and are nice people but the big picture is a nasty one unfortunately. Just reminding

Gnu, it's always a pleasure to read your warm and fuzzy posts, full of christian tolerance and pinpoint accuracy on any issue. (Irony, in case you didn't get it.)

 

Thank you for the links, I was intrigued by the "a sign of the days we live in" one. I was a bit confused about the "men will be lovers of themselves" bit, I didn't think that sort of behaviour was limited to the last days, in fact I reckon it's been going on since before we came down from the trees - a hypothesis that can be verified if you watch male chimps long enough. (Yeah ok, I've probably been guilty of it myself, but I'm not Robinson Crusoe there. Talking of which, I bet he did too, unless he & Man Friday came to an arrangement.)

 

"Lovers of money?" - don't know that this one is without precedent either. I do quite like money myself, and sometimes wish I had more of it, perhaps enough for a brand new Rotax 912uls and all the other gear needed to finish this plane, but I don't go all Scrooge McDuck.

 

"Boasters?" - Hmmm. There was one bloke trotting around a couple of thousand years ago saying he was the son of god. I've never been that bad. Or did I just boast of my humility?

 

"Proud?" - Yes, I have the occasional FIGJAM moment. Actually pride is a virtue in my book - pride in your work etc. Excessive pride isn't, but that just makes you a "man who is a lover of himself" to use your vernacular.

 

"Blasphemers?" - Now I reckon that's a bit subjective. If I don't believe in the existence of gods, then there is no such thing as blasphemy.

 

"Disobedient to parents?" - What a furphy. Kids would NEVER disobey their parents.

 

"Unthankful?" - No... I'm usually full of thanks when someone helps me, because incredibly, these end times are populated with people who in the vast majority of cases are good.

 

"Unholy?" - Definitely. Holy is boring.

 

"Unloving?" - Not at all. I love my wife and kids more than life itself.

 

"Unforgiving?" - Only to really bad people. If I caught someone trying to hurt one of my kids, I wouldn't just be unforgiving, but unmerciful.

 

"Slanderers?" - On occasion. Usually reserved for members of the LNP and other worthy targets.

 

"Without self-control?" - Again, on occasion. Self control is a concept which varies in inverse proportion to alcohol consumed.

 

"Brutal?" - I don't think so. I've never applied thumbscrews, racked anyone, burned anyone alive, beheaded them, stoned them, or killed all their firstborn sons.

 

"Despisers of good?" - Definitely not. Depends on what you think is "good" though really. If you think it's "good" to go out and proselytize, yes, you're despicable. (Actually that's a bit strong. "Boring", "misguided" and "annoying" are better.)

 

"Traitors?" - To what?

 

"Headstrong?" - Jeez, are they running out of sins? "Headstrong" is a phase of life starting at 2 years old and ending somewhere from 20 to 99!

 

"Haughty?" - I think haughtiness reached its peak in the old aristocracies of the 18th century. Bugger! Don't tell me we've missed the end times!

 

"Lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God?" - Unabashedly, unashamedly yes! I do love pleasure. Pleasure's real.

 

"Having a form of godliness but denying its power?" - I think that one applies to Bex, but I don't think he denies his power.

 

So, quite a list. But the next bit is really good.

 

"And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

 

(It's a bit sexist really. I get the sense that the writer is a bit envious of those blokes who creep into households and make captives of gullible women, or perhaps that he's been cuckolded himself, and has a chip on his shoulder. However I do understand his frustration with professional uni students, spending their lives getting one arts degree after another and never learning one of the hard sciences.)

 

So thanks for an entertaining read, Gnu, and I'm sorry that the big picture you see is all doom and gloom, but I suppose it makes an afterlife seem more attractive, so every cloud has a silver lining!

 

 

[bexrbetter]

no country less free than an atheist run one.

Wrong, period.

 

Totalitarian Authority and Atheism has no bearing on how a country will be run.

 

Ironically the "Totalitarian Atheist" authority I live under currently blocks the stuff of anti-Christian morality such as Porn, how to commit suicide, how to make bombs etc. - the very stuff your ilk protests the (cough, cough) "Free" Governments to do. I can just imagine the coffee being spat onto your keyboard when you read that Chinese society as a whole is by far closer to a truer Christian society than Australia or America.

 

Most of us grow up with Totalitarian Authority, and some of us with Atheism, they are called Parents, some are good, some are bad and country's leaders are no different.

 

GG, please open your eyes, you are proffering radical, unhealthy and ironically, Totalitarian teachings - not everything non-religious is evil and not everything religious is good.

 

 

[Bikky]

Really is an excellent list of wrongdoings, isn't it?

 

If god is the only thing preventing the religious from doing them, we're stuffed if they stop believing!

 

Have faith ... please!

 

 

[Bikky]

If you can ignore all the tragedy religion has brought about, it's pretty funny and definitely difficult to take seriously.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Ironically the "Totalitarian Atheist" authority I live under currently blocks the stuff of anti-Christian morality such as Porn, how to commit suicide, how to make bombs etc

And BTW, this is the sort of stuff that gets blocked that the Freedom of Speech type idiots mouth off about China. There's plenty of stuff out there people don't need to and shouldn't see.

 

Now back to CNN News and see if Putin scores with China's First Lady ... (not kidding).

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Chinese society as a whole is by far closer to a truer Christian society than Australia or America.

Whilst neither Australia (secular democracy) or the USA (republic) could really be called Christian societies (eg there are many more Christians by number in China than AU) to raise but one point the number of unborn butchered in China is horrific largely due to the single child policy for city people. I agree some aspects in China are conservative (same as in Iran etc) but this does not make them Christian. Besides many Christians are still being persecuted there so I think you may be confusing the two aspects.

 

I do note that despite the bluster none have offered an alternative list of atheist run countries that are free and tolerant.