Atheist knowledge

[turboplanner]

No earthquake but I'd check your through bolt design if I were you.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...Mungo Man was discovered in 1974 in the dry lake bed of Lake Mungo in west NSW. Mungo Man was a hominin who was estimated to have died 62,000 years ago and was ritually buried with his hands covering his penis. Clearly a Christian burial showing respect for modesty. He was not from the same genetic branch of the more modern aborigines who are thought to have emigrated from islands off Japan. May have been forced out by the invading Chinese/Koreans who founded Japan.

Fascinating topic, Don. There is still much to be discovered. I like the Three Waves theory, even though it has recently fallen from favour.

 

In North Queensland I have met small, round-faced indigenous people who are descendants of rainforest dwellers. Their physique and culture was quite different to the brown-skinned, balding Murrayians encountered by the first white explorers in the Riverina. These stronger people were thought to have displaced these Negritos, who survived in the NQ rainforest, SW WA and Tasmania, where they intermixed with Murrayians. An ancient people with quite similar characteristics to the Murrayians was driven out of their islands by the advancing Japanese. The Ainu were almost exterminated and their mixed-race remnants survive today in the far northern Japanese Islands.

 

The Murrayians were in turn displaced from Northern Australia by the Carpentarians; taller, darker and able to "rifle" their spears. People up north look like they came from Southern India- and they can still make those spears hum!

 

 

[Bikky]

Why does an atheist need to prove something doesn't exist???? If I tell you the tooth fairy is real, I'd better come up with some evidence to back this claim. If I start quoting from a book written by people that firmly believe in the tooth fairy, is that evidence?

 

The tooth fairy exists because you don't have the evidence to prove that it doesn't!

 

Some flawed logic going on here.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

The tooth fairy exists because you don't have the evidence to prove that it doesn't!

Umm, hello, 20 cents under my pillow, duh!

 

 

[Bikky]

Aah Bex. You got me there. Cold, hard cash is evidence enough.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

There you go guys, just came up on the quake map http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map/

 

5.8 but 10 kms down, 2 hours away from me. Still gave quite a kick or 2, enough to have me heading outside. I am about at the "A" in Sichuan.

 

[ATTACH]47510._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

[Marty_d]

Umm, hello, 20 cents under my pillow, duh!

20 cents!!! Jeez times have changed. She leaves $2 under my son's pillow (and $5 if it's a front tooth!)

 

 

[turboplanner]

I was on the lookout for references to this continent but can't recall him saying the fleet actually got here. He seemed to be saying they knew of this place and traded with people who came here regularly. If he is right about the extent of Chinese exploration that may give Beijing added leverage in future dealings... Perhaps reason enough for the west to downplay his theories.

According to Gavin Menzies:

 

Admiral Hong Bao's fleet was to map the western side of Australia

 

They made landfall near Bunbury and anchored in the Swan River.

 

A Junk was despatched to chart the south coast of Australia but foundered off Warrnambool. The "Mahogany" description doesn't match European ships but matches the Chinese Junks.

 

Professor We Chu Xian believes the men walked up the Murray Darling system to Cooktown (because of traces left along the way). That is corronorated by Toscanellis map of 1474 which has the rivers marked.

 

Admiral Zhou Man found Norfolk Island and made landfall just north of Sydney

 

A Taiwan University map on porcelain dated 1447 shows the eastern coastline from New Guinea to Victoria and NE Tasmania

 

There are maps of the west and east coasts of Australia in the British Museum in 1542 believed to have come from Chinese maps.

 

The Rotz chart shows Nelson Bay, Port Stephens, Broken Bay and Botany Bay

 

A stone fortress was found at Bittangabee Bay, near Eden and is still there.

 

Stones outlining a village with a wharf were found south of Sydney

 

Stone dwellings were found at Newcastle

 

There is an aboriginal rock carving of a Junk on the Hawkesbury River

 

There is evidence of mining on the Tweed River

 

At Byron Bay, wooden pegs were found which dated to the 15th Century and a huge wooden rudder 40 feet high was found. The treasure ship rudders were 36 fee high.

 

A Chinese stone head was found at Ulladulla and a similar statue on the Nepean River.

 

The fleet sailed in to Cooktown, on the same rout that Cook used centuries later.

 

In fact Cook a,d Christopher Columbus both had maps to not only show them where to go, but which bays to anchor in.

 

Australian should have been called New China.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

She leaves $2 under my son's pillow

What do you mean by "She"?

 

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

According to Gavin Menzies:Admiral Hong Bao's fleet was to map the western side of Australia

 

They made landfall near Bunbury and anchored in the Swan River.

 

A Junk was despatched to chart the south coast of Australia but foundered off Warrnambool. The "Mahogany" description doesn't match European ships but matches the Chinese Junks.

 

Professor We Chu Xian believes the men walked up the Murray Darling system to Cooktown (because of traces left along the way). That is corronorated by Toscanellis map of 1474 which has the rivers marked.

 

Admiral Zhou Man found Norfolk Island and made landfall just north of Sydney

 

A Taiwan University map on porcelain dated 1447 shows the eastern coastline from New Guinea to Victoria and NE Tasmania

 

There are maps of the west and east coasts of Australia in the British Museum in 1542 believed to have come from Chinese maps.

 

The Rotz chart shows Nelson Bay, Port Stephens, Broken Bay and Botany Bay

 

A stone fortress was found at Bittangabee Bay, near Eden and is still there.

 

Stones outlining a village with a wharf were found south of Sydney

 

Stone dwellings were found at Newcastle

 

There is an aboriginal rock carving of a Junk on the Hawkesbury River

 

There is evidence of mining on the Tweed River

 

At Byron Bay, wooden pegs were found which dated to the 15th Century and a huge wooden rudder 40 feet high was found. The treasure ship rudders were 36 fee high.

 

A Chinese stone head was found at Ulladulla and a similar statue on the Nepean River.

 

The fleet sailed in to Cooktown, on the same rout that Cook used centuries later.

 

In fact Cook a,d Christopher Columbus both had maps to not only show them where to go, but which bays to anchor in.

 

Australian should have been called New China.

I'm very interested and have read much of this before. I'd love to believe all this; can you provide locations I can actually see these features, particularly the ones near Newcastle?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Whether we have to radically re-write the history books is a fascinating topic. Gavin Menzies and Von Daniken sure pull the crowds. Superannuated baby-boomers with a new theory about what happened centuries ago write a book and make a Motza!

 

If you want to see real talent watch this iView clip. (Sorry I can't find a link; you'll have to download iView.)

 

Waleed Ali's Big Idea 21 November 2014. Professor Greg Barton from Monash University talking about ISS.

 

What funny cattle we humans are; a brilliant man with hard-won insights into a clear and present danger facing our nation gives us quality information. A handfull turn up.

 

George W Bush invaded Iraq and declared "mission accomplished". Then all hell broke loose and the whole region ends up far, far worse off than it was under the tyrant. If only Bush had advisors like Greg Barton. Are Australia's intelligence services listening to him?

 

 

[facthunter]

Shock and awe. Just a big firecracker show, except real. people were dying out there. The truth is about, but a lot of vested interests don't make it easy for you to find it Nev

 

 

[kaz3g]

There are still huge middens in the South East of South Australia.When I was a kid I was told the aborigines threw them there after a feast and over the years the midden built up.

 

These days I wonder why they would walk the distance from the sea to throw them in the exact same spot

Sea levels changed. Tasmanian Aboriginal people were there more than 40000 years ago and the land bridge was flooded. There were people living in Central Australia when it was an inland sea and you can find old middens there, too.

 

There are big middens along the Victorian coast near Portland and near Warrnambool where the Mahogany Ship is reputed to be buried

 

Kaz

 

 

[kaz3g]

Hunter gatherer? Nomadic? White invaders needed to feel they weren't dispossessing anyone, so that myth was cultivated.Long before the arrival of the European this continent had permanent buildings, villages, agriculture and complex trade systems.

 

https://stumblingpast.wordpress.com/2014/07/13/review-dark-emu/

The Gunditjmara around Warrnambool built stone fish traps and also "igloos" in which they sheltered during the cold winters.

 

Around the Arnhem coast, the Yolngu built their wirlies of sticks and paperbark sheets to protect them from the summer monsoon.

 

Kaz

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Don I'm aware of so-called 'Mungo man' - the claim goes this mob were wiped out by Aborigines or 'genocided' as some of the latter say. If so don't know why we can't get them to at least say sorry, or get maybe Kev to do if for them. Surely there are some human rights lawyers out their that would love to take up their case?

 

I'm currently working in a pagan or non-Christian background country and have been delighted to see various signs of Christianity here. For example the biggest hospital nearby has the 'snakes wrapped around a pole' symbol which is a direct reference to the healing that occurred some 3400 years ago and recorded in Numbers chapter 21 - how 'fiery serpents' were biting and killing people until Moses set up a model, a brass serpent upon a pole; those that were bitten and looked upon the brass serpent lived. And this is in turn a direct allegory of the gospel and the instant spiritual healing afforded to those that put their faith in Christ. The serpents represent sin (we are all affected by sin / bitten by the serpent called Satan) and yet the Son of God was made sin for us* - he himself became sin by taking our wickedness upon himself and dying on a cross for us. Anyone can "look and live" even the gravely ill, just as anyone can have faith and be saved from their sins. But sadly there are those that refuse - those too proud, the mockers or those in denial of their sinful condition etc.

 

* 2 Corinthians 5v21 "Him who knew not sin he has made sin for us, that we might become God's righteousness in him."

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I'm currently working in a pagan or non-Christian background country

Legally or illegally according to the specific laws of that country?

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

And this is somehow your business? Not an opportunity to earn brownie points for your nomenclatura comrades sorry because what I'm doing is perfectly legal.

 

 

[rgmwa]

The Gunditjmara around Warrnambool built stone fish traps and also "igloos" in which they sheltered during the cold winters.Kaz

Also found at Lake Condah and around Tyrendarra

 

rgmwa

 

 

[bexrbetter]

And this is somehow your business?

Oh the irony

 

Mathew 7:15-23

 

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s gnu's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves".

 

 

[rankamateur]

Sea levels changed. Tasmanian Aboriginal people were there more than 40000 years ago and the land bridge was flooded. There were people living in Central Australia when it was an inland sea and you can find old middens there, too.

There are big middens along the Victorian coast near Portland and near Warrnambool where the Mahogany Ship is reputed to be buried

 

Kaz

There are shipwrecks in the Sahara desert too. The world is a changing place even in the short space of time humans have been running amok.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Our BC calendar is continue to go backwards without a gorilla in sight.

 

BC

 

800,000 Age of Double handed axes found Africa (Dr Thomas Strasser)

 

398,000 Oldest human remains http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au/news/2013/12/131204-human-fossil-dna-spain-denisovan-cave/

Turbo, I'm a little confused about your timeline. Firstly with the axes: hand axes have been found in eastern Africa dating to 1.7 million years. This is not inconsistent with the fact that modern humans (Homo Sapiens) have only been around 200,000 years - there's a long history of ancestry prior to that.

 

Then your quoted article does not state that the remains found in Spain are the "oldest human remains", it says it's the "oldest human DNA sequence ever decoded". The remains were from a branch of evolution that may have shared a common ancestor with humanity (Homo Heidelbergensis).

 

Here's a rough timeline of humanity (and be warned, there are gorillas in sight...):

 

Taxonomic rank Name Common name Millions of years ago

 

Superfamily Hominoidea Apes 28

 

Family Hominidae Great apes (Humans, chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, and orangutans) 15

 

Subfamily Homininae Humans, chimpanzees, bonobos, and gorillas 8

 

Tribe Hominini Genera Homo and Australopithecus 5.8

 

Subtribe Hominina Contains only the Genus Homo 2.5

 

Genus Homo Humans 2.5

 

Species (Archaic) Homo sapiens Modern humans 0.5

 

Subspecies Homo sapiens sapiens Fully anatomically modern humans 0.2

 

Within the genus "Homo" there have been several branches - most, like Homo Erectus and Homo Habilis, died out. Only one subspecies, Homo Sapiens Sapiens, survives to this day to argue over its origins.

 

Mind you, there's another interesting article on the site you got the DNA article from:

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com.au/news/2003/05/0520_030520_chimpanzees.html

 

This argues that humans and chimpanzees diverged so recently that chimps (currently genus "Pan") should be moved to genus "Homo" along with us. In that case, there'd be two subspecies of Homo which survive to this day...

 

 

[Marty_d]

Don I'm aware of so-called 'Mungo man' - the claim goes this mob were wiped out by Aborigines or 'genocided' as some of the latter say. If so don't know why we can't get them to at least say sorry, or get maybe Kev to do if for them. Surely there are some human rights lawyers out their that would love to take up their case?

I'm currently working in a pagan or non-Christian background country and have been delighted to see various signs of Christianity here. For example the biggest hospital nearby has the 'snakes wrapped around a pole' symbol which is a direct reference to the healing that occurred some 3400 years ago and recorded in Numbers chapter 21 - how 'fiery serpents' were biting and killing people until Moses set up a model, a brass serpent upon a pole; those that were bitten and looked upon the brass serpent lived. And this is in turn a direct allegory of the gospel and the instant spiritual healing afforded to those that put their faith in Christ. The serpents represent sin (we are all affected by sin / bitten by the serpent called Satan) and yet the Son of God was made sin for us* - he himself became sin by taking our wickedness upon himself and dying on a cross for us. Anyone can "look and live" even the gravely ill, just as anyone can have faith and be saved from their sins. But sadly there are those that refuse - those too proud, the mockers or those in denial of their sinful condition etc.

 

* 2 Corinthians 5v21 "Him who knew not sin he has made sin for us, that we might become God's righteousness in him."

How sad it must be to believe "we are all affected by sin / bitten by the serpent called Satan". Are other animals affected by sin too? Perhaps my dog is, she's been guilty of the sin of killing chooks on several occasions.

 

Mind you, without that belief I guess you don't need a merciful god, and there goes your whole raison d'être.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The aboriginal police system was also interesting. In WA when a murder was committed, the tribe would come to gether and place the body on a timber platform above the ground. The kaditcha would place stones on the ground under the body, and solemnly announce that the first drop of fat would fall on the stone of the murder.

 

It worked every time because the murderer just couldn't stand the suspense of waiting and would take off for the bush.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Where ? at Silverton? Nev

I reckon Silverton is west of Broken Hill, not north. The most memorable event in Silverton was when Chad Morgan got hit with a nulla nulla and was put in the Broken Hill hospital. Shows that indigenous people also had a well developed sense of musical appreciation.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I'm very interested and have read much of this before. I'd love to believe all this; can you provide locations I can actually see these features, particularly the ones near Newcastle?

1421 has about 100 pages of Appendix, so you might find something there. It's available on Amazon for less than $10.

 

Here it is[ATTACH]47511._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

For those interested in Navigation, Menzies explains how the Chinese accurately mapped longitude without a chronometer, with the exception that they didn't know what the main ocean current speeds were, which he, from his submarine days, did.

 

What he did suggest in his book was that the Bimini Road in the Bahamas - two straight man-made lines of stones under the sea were made from ballast stones out of a junk, and matched the swing lengths of a Junk and escort ship.

 

The line of stones on Kirribati is probably from the same flotilla.

 

Both can be seen on Google Earth. Previous speculators had said these were runways for alien space ships.