Atheist knowledge

[Bikky]

Turbs may I say One doesn't necessarily WANT to be an atheist. Want doesn't have much to do with it . Nev

This is so true. If you can't believe in something, you can't. It's simple really. It's not a sin or a crime. It's just being true to yourself.

 

Sure, I could turn around and say that I believe in something I don't, but that would be a lie. If I am prepared to lie to myself, where will it end?

 

 

[octave]

Some necessarily do, and flaunt it, and ridicule religion though.

Do atheists flaunt their atheism any more than religious people flaunt their religion?

 

Questioning a religious persons pronouncments on science is not ridicule.

 

 

[facthunter]

IF someone's dealing with me or making something for me, I WOULD like to know if they pray or get an expert when they want to find out something. Nev

 

 

[rgmwa]

...and that is why the forgiveness of sins is so imperative in the whole scheme of things.

Suggest that to a few victims of child abuse committed at the hands of members of the clergy and see if they agree with you. I'm sure even God would think twice about whether it was `so imperative in the scheme of things' that they should be forgiven their sins.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Suggest that to a few victims of child abuse committed at the hands of members of the clergy and see if they agree with you. I'm sure even God would think twice about whether it was `so imperative in the scheme of things' that they should be forgiven their sins.rgmwa

The whole idea of forgiveness as it applies to getting into heaven is a sham.

 

Its a "get of jail" card put in place to allow people to do what they like in life and then when they see death looming and they start thinking "maybe there is some truth in this heaven story, so I'd better cover my arse.

 

I was quite amused when I travelled round Italy how almost every church has a stone sarcophagus in it somewhere where the local medieval lord is buried and that in many the story goes that he was a complete horror to the local peasantry while he was in good health and then as he came closer to death he started getting forgiveness from the church - forgiveness they were happy to give as long as he paid for a new church, new monastery or something. As part of the deal he would demand to buried inside the church so as to ensure he could not be denied immediate access to heaven. All sanctioned by the church.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

In the grand scheme of things "forgiveness" is what has caused the bad to remain bad while they think they can get away with it. Do what you like till you are called to account and then ask for forgiveness.

 

And don't think I only think Christianity is a con for having it. Islam is just as bad. In that one, you do what you like and if you get caught, "It was all Allah's will".

 

Buddism seems to have a reasonable approach - be bad - that's it, no forgiveness - just come back in the next life as a slug or a bot fly. Then work your way back up again. Of course I don't think there's any evidence that slugs "know" they did bad in a former life and now have to work at being good to come back as gradually better beasties.

 

 

[kasper]

If you want to be an atheist, that's fine. but you are displaying an ignorance of the history written in the Bible by displaying something like that when there are plenty of examples written, and plenty of examples of how man has sinned.Did you think God was going to walk up with an AK47 and fix up all the Nazis? Because if you did, be prepared for many more surprises.

Well it certainly would have required God ... the AK47 is a post WWII gun - design '45 entry into service approx 1949

 

 

[facthunter]

Be easier for him to stick needles into dolls or have a great flood, or throw a comet.

 

God is all-knowing, so... Why would god fearing people think they can fool him. Surely HE, it or she ,would see through these Death Bed Repentances. If I was god I'd be a bit cheesed off by people being sneaky to get to heaven, and IF there are people getting there that way, It isn't really going to be very "heavenly" because we would have to catch them and throw rocks at them or something. Bit like here.. Nev

 

 

[eightyknots]

Suggest that to a few victims of child abuse committed at the hands of members of the clergy and see if they agree with you. I'm sure even God would think twice about whether it was `so imperative in the scheme of things' that they should be forgiven their sins.rgmwa

I agree with you rgmwa, that the behaviour by the child abusing clergy is absolutely gross and needs to be pursued to the full extent of the law. They are a despicable lot who have given the life of many young people a very miserable start by robbing them of their innocence.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

How about the maternity ward? Oh I forgot... you guys invented "original sin" so even babies are classed as sinful.

Marty I'm not actually familiar with the term 'original sin', I take it this is RCC terminology? The new-born infants have not themselves sinned of course although each has the nature or the propensity to do so and this shows itself before long (you would have noticed this if you have children). In a maternity ward every human child is born with pain due to the curse of Eve's sin - Genesis 3v16 "To the woman he said, I will greatly increase thy travail and thy pregnancy; with pain thou shalt bear children;"

 

Incidentally elsewhere in the hospital you might find doctors doing bone grafts using a patients rib bones - the rib bones in the human body will fully regenerate themselves per Genesis 2v21 - 23. See clip below.

 

Blaming God for mankind's evil and sin (eg the concentration camps reference) is a favourite tactic of the atheist God-hater whilst at the same time attempting to either deny there is sin in us all or claiming it is no big issue.

 

Matthew 10v28 "And be not afraid of those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul; but fear rather him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Your second last para has to be one of your worst logically. Why would an atheist blame GOD for anything? You incessantly attempt to denigrate people who don't share your beliefs. You've been offensive from the first post of yours. I doubt you will ever realise it. Nev

 

 

[horsefeathers]

...

Incidentally elsewhere in the hospital you might find doctors doing bone grafts using a patients rib bones - the rib bones in the human body will fully regenerate themselves per Genesis 2v21 - 23. See clip below.

 

...

 

 

And how does that particular Genesis phrase support regeneration???

 

Up until the 1500's, the church believed that a man had one rib less than a woman, because of the creation of Eve from Adam's ribs , based on an an account in Genesis. It was only when Vesalius performed an autopsy that proved otherwise, that the church was dragged kicking and screaming to the truth of the matter. So much for the bible teachings being followed.

 

And quoting Genesis (well, lets face it, any of the bible) can quickly turn into a 2 edged sword, due to its numerous inconsistencies.

 

Now, can any biblical scholar out there tell me, for example, was Adam created before or after the animals? (see below) According to genesis, he was created both before AND after.

 

I really dont give a toss about this, but before you start quoting "the holy bible" or suchlike, be aware that its full of errors. Trouble is, biblical types refuse to even acknowledge these problems in their infallible writings.

 

============================================================================================

 

Man created AFTER animals

 

1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

 

1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forthabundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

 

1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

 

1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

 

1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

 

1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

 

1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 

1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

 

.....

 

1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

Man created BEFORE animals

 

2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

 

2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

 

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Nev it wasn't intended to be deliberately offensive, I just equate fundamental atheists as God haters because that's how they come across. Other faiths and beliefs (eg animism, Buddhism, occult, mysticism etc) don't seem to bother fundamental atheist at all.

 

Horse the animals were created first, a more detailed examination of chapters 1 and 2 are is here. When you quote 'the church believed....' I take it you are referring to the Roman Catholic Church? The bible doesn't claim man was short of a rib and a quick look at a few skeletons would confirm this so the story may be folklore but then I don't look into the historical teachings of the RCC other than the obviously wrong doctrinal ones.

 

 

[horsefeathers]

Oh it wasn't intended to be deliberately offensive, I just equate fundamental atheists as God haters because that's how they come across.

How can they hate something that doesnt exist????

 

 

[rgmwa]

Oh it wasn't intended to be deliberately offensive, I just equate fundamental atheists as God haters because that's how they come across.

I think that attitude is quite sinful GG, and worthy of repentence. Remember, tolerance is a virtue. It's like an athiest saying " I equate religious fundamentalists as athiest haters because that how they come across", although I suspect that in your case it may be close to the truth. No offence intended, mind you.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Sorry I'm not sure what you are claiming rgmwa? I'm very tolerant of atheists and certainly don't wish to silence them or restrict them in any way; I enjoy discussing these matters with atheists and urging them to reconsider the evidence is certainly not intolerance. In fact quite the opposite - if I didn't care about their eternal destiny then I wouldn't take the time to warn them of the consequences.

 

Many freedoms such as freedom of religion is a specific attribute of countries that have a Christian heritage; I'm currently in an officially atheist country and no such freedom is found here.

 

 

[Marty_d]

How can they hate something that doesnt exist????

Don't get fired up about it Horsefeathers - you're trying to use logic against a true believer. Ain't gonna work. (And having said that... here goes...)

 

each has the nature or the propensity to do so and this shows itself before long (you would have noticed this if you have children).

I do have kids Gnu, and yes their behaviour is atrocious a lot of the time. That's because they're kids. Look at baby animals playing and there's a lot of tail-biting, pouncing, running away from mum and other naughtiness too. Pretty sure they don't know anything about sin.

 

In a maternity ward every human child is born with pain due to the curse of Eve's sin - Genesis 3v16 "To the woman he said, I will greatly increase thy travail and thy pregnancy; with pain thou shalt bear children;"

Children cause pain while being born because a head the size of a rockmelon is forcing itself through a passage that's usually the size of a garden hose. The fruit analogy is probably misleading, because apples have nothing to do with it.

 

The good thing is, according to my wife, the pain of childbirth pales into insignificance compared to the pain of raising the little buggers.

 

Getting back to the animal comparison, I've seen cattle giving birth and they seem to be in quite a lot of pain too. Was there a cow surreptitiously grazing on the tree of knowledge of good & evil too?

 

Incidentally elsewhere in the hospital you might find doctors doing bone grafts using a patients rib bones - the rib bones in the human body will fully regenerate themselves per Genesis 2v21 - 23

So christians are ok with rib bone regeneration but not stem cell research? How interesting.

 

 

[rgmwa]

Labelling someone a `God-hater' does not indicate a tolerant attitude GG. You may think you are very tolerant, but that's not how you come across. In any case, as has already been pointed out, athiests are not god-haters since they can't hate something they believe doesn't exist. As for warning them of the consequences, save your breath. They don't take much notice of carefully selected quotations from the scriptures either.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[dazza 38]

The way I see it, when we die one group is going to be right and the other group wrong. The believer is either going to say yippie, all that time wasted on earth praying was worth it as they rock up at the pearly gates OR they are going to think $hit everything is dark.

 

The non believers are going to either think damn it we were right and its dark or $hit yeah we were wrong but I'm glad as they rock up to the pearly gates.

 

 

[facthunter]

GG I'm just running out of puff. A lot of people have put their private thoughts out here and it means not one jot to you it would seem. You DO have a "thing" about atheists but you know little of what you speak evidently. Quoting the bible as GOD's word is a bit much to cop for a lot of people even those who have given it a lot of thought and study.. Many of us have been through years of what you are dishing out, and many theists are not of generous spirit towards their fellow men despite being "believers" supposedly. The behaviour of some makes their superior position for the next world and belief seem of no import as they often behave BADLY, in very obvious ways. As a kid I did believe that religious people were NICER and GOOD, because I had that drummed into me. I wish it were true, but it's not I'm afraid.

 

This is certainly NOT to say they are ALL evil at all, but IF there was a common good effect it should be observable.in them behaving in a noticeably better way, I'm not singling out Christians any more than other religions, but I know more of it as that is how I was brought up .Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

When the Vikings "discovered" Greenland they called it Greenland for a reason: it was lush and green. They decided to settle this area. Slowly but surely, due to global cooling, Greenland is increasingly becoming white...

I doubt the place was ever like you describe, 80kt. The conventional history is that it was discovered by Norse explorers who returned to Iceland with tales of a wonderful green land. Just another real-estate con job, because only small areas in the south were vegetated and ice free in the summer.

 

Several thousand Norse settled there, and there were even a couple of Bishops appointed by the Roman Catholic Church, which the settlers had embraced. After a couple of centuries the Warm Period ended and bitter winters returned, decimating the settlements. What became of the settlers is a great mystery, but there is evidence that the conservatism of the church didn't help. Perhaps there are lessons for us in their demise. They did not adapt to the changing climate, but the nearby Inuit flourished.

 

 

[rgmwa]

The way I see it, when we die one group is going to be right and the other group wrong. The believer is either going to say yippie, all that time wasted on earth praying was worth it as they rock up at the pearly gates OR they are going to think $hit everything is dark.The non believers are going to either think damn it we were right and its dark or $hit yeah we were wrong but I'm glad as they rock up to the pearly gates.

Yep, and then the believer and the non-believer are going to look at each other and say "Oh no! Don't tell me you're here too!"

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Marty_d]

The way I see it, when we die one group is going to be right and the other group wrong. The believer is either going to say yippie, all that time wasted on earth praying was worth it as they rock up at the pearly gates OR they are going to think $hit everything is dark.The non believers are going to either think damn it we were right and its dark or $hit yeah we were wrong but I'm glad as they rock up to the pearly gates.

Or, no-one is anywhere because this life's all we got and when we fall off the perch we're in the same state as before we were conceived. The only immortality we have is the same as every other species on the planet - through our DNA.

 

(Note: This is a personal opinion based on the most likely scenario and the lack of any evidence to support a continued existence.)

 

 

[dazza 38]

Or, no-one is anywhere because this life's all we got and when we fall off the perch we're in the same state as before we were conceived. The only immortality we have is the same as every other species on the planet - through our DNA.(Note: This is a personal opinion based on the most likely scenario and the lack of any evidence to support a continued existence.)

Very plausible

 

 

[rankamateur]

Or, no-one is anywhere because this life's all we got and when we fall off the perch we're in the same state as before we were conceived. The only immortality we have is the same as every other species on the planet - through our DNA.(Note: This is a personal opinion based on the most likely scenario and the lack of any evidence to support a continued existence.)

As a kid I came up with the theory that if you lived a good life, the people you left behind would like you and speak well of you after you died, and if they had good memories they would go on doing that for ever, That is heaven! and if you were a real prick, well then you get what is coming...