Atheist knowledge

[Marty_d]

 

Some places do. That's no reason for us to.

 

The government seems to think there are masses of people going to the doctor for no other reason than boredom. I can't see that anyone would make an appointment, sit in a waiting room filled with coughing people for an hour, then get poked and prodded by a doctor, without needing to do so.

 

If the budget is in such a bad state then they should perhaps get rid of negative gearing and remove tax exemptions on superannuation over a certain level. Plus prevent international companies from avoiding their Australian tax responsibilities.

[dazza 38]

The measly $7 isnt going to break the bank of poor people and most of those 'poor' people drink and smoke anyway which costs a fortune. At the end of the day, the deficit has to be paid back one way or another.

 

 

[Marty_d]

The measly $7 isnt going to break the bank of poor people and most of those 'poor' people drink and smoke anyway which costs a fortune. At the end of the day, the deficit has to be paid back one way or another.

The single rate of Newstart Allowance is $257.80 per week, plus maximum Rent Assistance of $63.80 per week (total $321.60 per week).

 

The median rate of rent in regional Victoria is $270 per week ($360 per week in Melbourne).

 

So if someone is paying average rent in country Vic and can't get a flatmate for whatever reason, they have $51.60 per week to eat, travel, apply for jobs, pay for electricity, gas, water, buy stuff for their kid(s) if they're divorced with family, and all the other expenses. And that's for a non-smoking teetotaller.

 

That $7 is looking pretty big now.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

The measly $7 isnt going to break the bank of poor people and most of those 'poor' people drink and smoke anyway which costs a fortune. At the end of the day, the deficit has to be paid back one way or another.

its not $7 a visit though, its $7 for the GP, $35 for a xray, $30 for a blood test. get seriously sick and you will be financially ruined by the eroding of the public health system

 

 

[dazza 38]

its not $7 a visit though, its $7 for the GP, $35 for a xray, $30 for a blood test. get seriously sick and you will be financially ruined by the eroding of the public health system

So you reckon I should pay for those who don't work ?

 

 

[dazza 38]

The single rate of Newstart Allowance is $257.80 per week, plus maximum Rent Assistance of $63.80 per week (total $321.60 per week).The median rate of rent in regional Victoria is $270 per week ($360 per week in Melbourne).

 

So if someone is paying average rent in country Vic and can't get a flatmate for whatever reason, they have $51.60 per week to eat, travel, apply for jobs, pay for electricity, gas, water, buy stuff for their kid(s) if they're divorced with family, and all the other expenses. And that's for a non-smoking teetotaller.

 

That $7 is looking pretty big now.

They could aways go and get a job.

 

 

[Marty_d]

So you reckon I should pay for those who don't work ?

No, you should let them avoid doctors, encourage the spread of infection, and overload the hospital system. Because disease is very selective and won't affect those of us who do have a job.

 

Or we can slide backwards into a US-style system where health care is unaffordable for large proportions of the population and the only people who make money are insurance companies.

 

Or, and here's a novel thought, we could actually look after people, put money into preventative health, and reap the rewards of lower burdens on the public purse.

 

What do you think is the right solution?

 

 

[dazza 38]

No, you should let them avoid doctors, encourage the spread of infection, and overload the hospital system. Because disease is very selective and won't affect those of us who do have a job.Or we can slide backwards into a US-style system where health care is unaffordable for large proportions of the population and the only people who make money are insurance companies.

 

Or, and here's a novel thought, we could actually look after people, put money into preventative health, and reap the rewards of lower burdens on the public purse.

 

What do you think is the right solution?

They are not going to avoid going to the doctors over $7. Besides I never go to the doctors but I still have to pay the medicare levy every year.

 

 

[Marty_d]

They are not going to avoid going to the doctors over $7

See the previous posts about how much money they actually have to spend and how much the extras like X-rays and blood tests are. Some people will avoid going to the doctor over $7.

 

Wouldn't it be a better option to say tax Superannuation at the standard tax rate for amounts over $1.5 million? How about removing negative gearing so someone with 6 rental properties can't write off the income from them? (And stop every house on the market being snapped up by investors, driving the price out of reach of owner-occupants.) Isn't that a better option than asking people with f*ck-all to pay to go to the doctor?

 

 

[octave]

They are not going to avoid going to the doctors over $7. Besides I never go to the doctors but I still have to pay the medicare levy every year.

1. The $7 is not going towards the deficit it is going into funding research.

 

2. It is also said that it is supposed to send a price signal, this would seem to be in order to deter visits to the doctor.

 

If you are going to pull money out of the medical system the worst place to do that is at the front end before people end up in hospital which is much more costly.

 

In my case the $7 is on top $130 specialist bills (of which about $30 is refunded) 2 ultrasounds per year plus blood tests and 4 prescriptions at $42 each per month, now I am not whinging about this but I just get a bit cranky when people say it is only $7.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Dazza, I remember you telling us about your amazing health before. That's fantastic for you and yes if you don't use the health system it may look unfair. Until you need it that is. Just like single people look at family allowance, child care benefit, the education system and say "but I don't have kids so why am I supporting all these other people." Like people who don't own cars wondering why their taxes go to roads. Even, dare I say it, people who don't own or travel by plane wondering why we waste taxpayer dollars on CASA.

 

It's called society.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Dazza, I remember you telling us about your amazing health before. That's fantastic for you and yes if you don't use the health system it may look unfair. Until you need it that is. Just like single people look at family allowance, child care benefit, the education system and say "but I don't have kids so why am I supporting all these other people." Like people who don't own cars wondering why their taxes go to roads. Even, dare I say it, people who don't own or travel by plane wondering why we waste taxpayer dollars on CASA.

It's called society.

True that is why we need more of a user pays system. I have a idea, lets gets everybody to pay $7 when they visit the doctor.lol

 

 

[octave]

True that is why we need more of a user pays system. I have a idea, lets gets everybody to pay $7 when they visit the doctor.lol

Having spent many many years paying my medicare levy and not using the system, but then last year having this system give me life saving and expensive treatment, I have come to realize that what I have been paying for all these years was the a wonderful system on standby for when I needed it. It is a little like the fire brigade, I pay to keep it running although I have never needed to call it, I know it is there ready to help me.

 

This is why I would argue that aviation should not be totally user pays because society derives a benefit from flight schools and airports etc.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

2. It is also said that it is supposed to send a price signal, this would seem to be in order to deter visits to the doctor.

 

.

Needed too. I lived in Logan City for 20 years, 15 in the middle of Marsden with a very high unemployment/single mother/disability rate, and the amount of loafers who would just trot off to the Docs for any reason at all costing the rest of us most certainly needed curtailing. Many would just go to get cheap or free medicines, pain killers etc.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Having spent many many years paying my medicare levy and not using the system, but then last year having this system give me life saving and expensive treatment, I have come to realize that what I have been paying for all these years was the a wonderful system on standby for when I needed it. It is a little like the fire brigade, I pay to keep it running although I have never needed to call it, I know it is there ready to help me.

This is why I would argue that aviation should not be totally user pays because society derives a benefit from flight schools and airports etc.

I am sure that I will use it as I get older as well. And they better look after me since I have been paying medicare for many many years.

 

 

[octave]

I am sure that I will use it as I get older as well. And they better look after me since I have been paying medicare for many many years.

with all of its faults it is a pretty good system compared to other parts of the world

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Getting back on thread. To protect my mental health I try to ignore the worst news stories, but people should realise how faith and belief are too often used as excuses for human barbarity. Although I admire the enterprise of the Israelis, they have become the new Nazis.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30290052

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Although I admire the enterprise of the Israelis, they have become the new Nazis.

You're not allowed to say things like that OK, in fact it's actually law in some places.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Depends who you talk to, and I have talked to both sides here in Australia.

 

The Israelis run a tough line, and if you recall the bomb blasts along the strategic military tunnel lines of the Palestinians recently, where years of military infrastructure were destroyed, you can see why.

 

Ownership of the land has swapped between Jews and Muslims for a couple of thousand years or more.

 

There is a Mosque built on the site of Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem which remains there by agreement between the two parties. So does the wailing wall.

 

I was going to include the land grabs around the time of Jesus Christ and how the Crusaders took it back off the Muslims, who got it back a hundred or so years later.

 

When you look at the tit for tat history it is immensely complex - way too complex for us to make a judgement on who's not playing the game.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

You're not allowed to say things like that OK, in fact it's actually law in some places.

Where I'm sitting you can still tell the truth, even if it's inconvenient.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...When you look at the tit for tat history it is immensely complex - way too complex for us to make a judgement on who's not playing the game.

Agreed Turbs, but at the individual level an awful lot of nasty people are using dusty old scrolls to justify outrageous acts against their neighbours.

 

 

[horsefeathers]

Agreed Turbs, but at the individual level an awful lot of nasty people are using dusty old scrolls to justify outrageous acts against their neighbours.

yeah, but I think you'll find in this particular case mentioned by Turbs, the politicians (or politically inspired) ruined a rather co-operative spirit that existed around Solomon's temple / Herod's temple / temple of the mount / wailing wall etc up until the 1920's . Just look at Ariel Sharons little "private" jaunt to the wailing wall (I'm just a private citizen, he said, whilst surrounded by 1000+ police bodyguards) . The last 100 years disagreement is more political based, but draped in religious overtones

 

 

[eightyknots]

Dazza, I remember you telling us about your amazing health before. That's fantastic for you and yes if you don't use the health system it may look unfair. Until you need it that is. Just like single people look at family allowance, child care benefit, the education system and say "but I don't have kids so why am I supporting all these other people." Like people who don't own cars wondering why their taxes go to roads. Even, dare I say it, people who don't own or travel by plane wondering why we waste taxpayer dollars on CASA.

It's called society.

As the oft-repeated quotation says: Taxation is the price of Civilisation

 

 

Tax rates are very low in Somalia, Zimbabwe, etc. ...but I am not in a hurry to move there.

 

 

[facthunter]

Without contributions (like taxes) the only things done will be charged for so you will still pay but a lot of things won't be done at all. Corruption finishes most things off. Look at Mexico currently. Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

Maybe we could afford a better health system here in Australia if we got the registered religions to pay their fair share of taxes ?