David Isaac Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Another Speech by Winstone C. “We must regard as deeply blameworthy before history the conduct not only of the British National and mainly Conservative Government, but of the Labour-Socialist and Liberal parties, both in and out of office, during this fatal period. Delight in smooth-sounding platitudes, refusal to face unpleasant facts, desire for popularity and electoral success irrespective of the vital interests of the State, genuine love of peace and pathetic belief that love can be its sole foundation, obvious lack of intellectual vigour in both leaders of the British Coalition Government, marked ignorance of Europe and aversion from its problems in Mr. Baldwin, the strong and violent pacifism which at this time dominated the Labour-Socialist Party, the utter devotion of the Liberals to sentiment apart from reality, the failure and worse than failure of Mr. Lloyd George, the erstwhile great war-time leader, to address himself to the continuity of his work, the whole supported by overwhelming majorities in both Houses of Parliament: all these constituted a picture of British fatuity and fecklessness which, though devoid of guile, was not devoid of guilt, and, though free from wickedness or evil design, played a definite part in the unleashing upon the world of horrors and miseries which, even so far as they have unfolded, are already beyond comparison in human experience.” (Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm, Mariner Books, p. 80)
David Isaac Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read. His references to past history are accurate and clear. Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read. The author of this email is Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist. A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism. 'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come.’ ‘My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.' ‘We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is a religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.’ ‘The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.’ ‘The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China 's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.’ ‘The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery? Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'? ‘History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.’ ‘Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.’ ‘Now Islamic prayers have been introduced in Toronto and other public schools in Ontario , and, yes, in Ottawa , too, while the Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?). The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.’ ‘In Australia , and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation's shores.’ ‘In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of "no-go" zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuse to acknowledge British law.’ ‘As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts - the fanatics who threaten our way of life.’
Marty_d Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 But since you seem able to quote from the law of the old testament I assume you would also understand that Christ 'ended the law' and 'we' entered an age of grace. So the law of the old testament was ended by Christ (unless of Course you are pure Judaistice or Muslim). In any case the Judaistic Principles existed long before we wrote laws. I don't disagree with you that laws may have developed in the absence of any belief in the supernatutral, but the fact of the matter is they were developed with a general belief in the supernatural. Thank God we have move away from some of the early bigoted laws that had their roots firmly in religious beliefs. I understand what you're saying David, but saying that laws were developed with a general belief in the supernatural is a bit like saying that agriculture was developed with a general belief in the supernatural. It probably was, but the principles behind it hold true regardless of the beliefs of the developers. The bit about christ ending the old testament laws always seems a bit dodgy to me. Did god suddenly wake up one day and say "Bugger it, I've had it wrong for the last 4,000 years, better send part of myself to Earth to change it all"?
Marty_d Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read. His references to past history are accurate and clear. Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read. The author of this email is Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist. A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism. 'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come.’ ‘My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.' ‘We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is a religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.’ ‘The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.’ ‘The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China 's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.’ ‘The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery? Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'? ‘History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.’ ‘Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.’ ‘Now Islamic prayers have been introduced in Toronto and other public schools in Ontario , and, yes, in Ottawa , too, while the Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?). The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.’ ‘In Australia , and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation's shores.’ ‘In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of "no-go" zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuse to acknowledge British law.’ ‘As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts - the fanatics who threaten our way of life.’ Apparently not... http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/t/Tanay-Merek-German-Islam.htm
David Isaac Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Good pick up Marty, of course that is where all the problems begin, for the Jews and for Islam .... Christ and the New Testament. Jokingly one day one of my Muslim friends (yes I know a few) said to me since my name is so bloody Jewish ..." Our religion started because your grandfather raped our grandmother". Obviously referring to Abraham having it off with his Concubine Hagar and the son to them being Ishmael who is alleged to be the beginning of Islam .... See the root of all problems starts with some blokes dick ... LOL
David Isaac Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Apparently not... http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/t/Tanay-Merek-German-Islam.htm Thanks for that Marty, I'll remember that site. Just goes to show you cant believe everything on the Internet ... LOL. Trouble is the link shutdown my Firefox browser. Regardless of who said it, it alines with the the concept of the 'tyranny of tolerance'. What is said is easy to recognize.
dutchroll Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Stretching that a bit Marty ... LOL All our laws are based on Judaistic Christian principles. These are the laws we live, govern and legislate by. Yet we seem to commit heinous acts in contravention of the laws. Written codes of laws specifying crimes and punishment including violence, and imposing rules of fairness, date back to earlier than 2000BC. The earliest Jewish/Hebrew law codes start about 1300BC.
David Isaac Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Written codes of laws specifying crimes and punishment including violence, and imposing rules of fairness, date back to earlier than 2000BC. The earliest Jewish/Hebrew law codes start about 1300BC. Agree ... that is the Judaistic bit ... only the Christian bit goes back 2K.
dutchroll Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 So I don't think it's fair to say modern day laws have Judeo-Christian roots. Decent and fair rules are a necessary part of any successful society and have been around since before Judaism or Christianity. This harks back to the concept expressed by many that ethical and moral behaviour is only possible due to its basis in religion, which is wishful thinking as far as I'm concerned.
Old Koreelah Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 ...We need to actively root out the nasty bastards and prosecute with the full force of the law. Agreed David, but most of these noxious people are clever (and hypocritical) enough to exploit our civil rights protections to avoid justice- all while actively plotting the replacement of the very legal system they so cynically exploit!
David Isaac Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Agreed David, but most of these noxious people are clever (and hypocritical) enough to exploit our civil rights protections to avoid justice- all while actively plotting the replacement of the very legal system they so cynically exploit! Agreed Lyle, they exploit our principles of tolerance ... as do all fanatics. Maybe the problem is in the level of Tolerance ... novel thought?
David Isaac Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 So I don't think it's fair to say modern day laws have Judeo-Christian roots. Decent and fair rules are a necessary part of any successful society and have been around since before Judaism or Christianity. This harks back to the concept expressed by many that ethical and moral behaviour is only possible due to its basis in religion, which is wishful thinking as far as I'm concerned. Dutchy, fair has nothing to do with it. When I studied law many years ago I was taught (rightly or wrongly) our laws were based on Judaistic / Christian principles. Our laws certainly uphold many Judaistic Christian principles. The absolute proof of their origin concept can be seen in some of the earlier bigoted laws on buggery, morality and marriage etc. ... they certainly are NOT Islamic in principle.
dutchroll Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 They also uphold many principles which have been around since before Judaism and Christianity. So how therefore can they be definitively based upon Judeo-Christian principles? That's not to say religion doesn't influence the law. It most certainly does. However the fact still remains that original codes of laws came before Judeo-Christian religion.
David Isaac Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I think we probably generally agree, I am just saying that our laws a very new and so is British law in the scale of history. We were certainly a very Christian based Monarchy and legal structure when our laws were formed. I don't really give a rats ass where they originated from. I am just saying what I was taught and again some of the laws were definitely based on christian views as I mentioned ... BUT ... we are sawing sawdust.
Marty_d Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Good pick up Marty, of course that is where all the problems begin, for the Jews and for Islam .... Christ and the New Testament. Jokingly one day one of my Muslim friends (yes I know a few) said to me since my name is so bloody Jewish ..." Our religion started because your grandfather raped our grandmother". Obviously referring to Abraham having it off with his Concubine Hagar and the son to them being Ishmael who is alleged to be the beginning of Islam .... See the root of all problems starts with some blokes dick ... LOL ...I agree with your last line and appreciate the unintentional pun! I'm assuming Concubine Hagar is not the same character as the one in "Hagar the Horrible" cartoons. Dutchy, fair has nothing to do with it. When I studied law many years ago I was taught (rightly or wrongly) our laws were based on Judaistic / Christian principles. Our laws certainly uphold many Judaistic Christian principles. The absolute proof of their origin concept can be seen in some of the earlier bigoted laws on buggery, morality and marriage etc. ... they certainly are NOT Islamic in principle. If we're assuming that Australian law is largely based on English law, then we have to look at the origins of English laws. There's some interesting stuff here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law#History , including "In the late 800s, Alfred the Great assembled the Doom book (not to be confused with the more-famous Domesday Book from 200 years later), which collected the existing laws of Kent, Wessex, and Mercia, and attempted to blend in the Mosaic code, Christian principles, and Germanic customs dating as far as the fifth century." Kent, Wessex and Mercia were separate kingdoms and definitely of pagan origin. King Peada of Mercia converted to christianity in 656 because he wanted to marry the daughter of the king of Northumberland and that was a condition of the marriage (yet another example of the old fella getting you in trouble). So it would seem logical that many of the laws were pagan in origin, and these laws were combined with the new christian ones to form the early English laws. Judaism wouldn't have come into it, unless you mean the christian laws were based on judaism. The pagan laws would have evolved from the druidism of the Saxons and whatever the Danes believed, which was probably the Odin/Thor type pantheon.
David Isaac Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 And then of course we have most of the Christian celebrations based on Pagan ceremony, compliments of attempts in history to integrate Christianity into existing pagan believing society. A real blend of confused origins.
dutchroll Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Wow. Looking back over the 80 pages of this thread, this atheistic science-loving mutant son of fundamentalist Christian parents (by anyone's definition except their own) is sure glad he didn't notice the discussion until the last couple of days!
Bikky Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 1. The cosmos is a gigantic fly-wheel making 10,000 revolutions a minute. 2. Man is a sick fly taking a dizzy ride on it. 3. Religion is the theory that the wheel was designed and set spinning to give him the ride. – H L Mencken
dazza 38 Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 So the ultimate question still remains - Why are we here on earth ?
pmccarthy Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 So the ultimate question still remains - Why are we here on earth ? I am here on earth because I am waiting for first light to take off for a local flight.
dutchroll Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 So the ultimate question still remains - Why are we here on earth ? To answer that you need to invoke your "frustrated parent talking to 6 year old kid" inner self. "Because that's the way it is, ok?"
facthunter Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 What part did the Magna Carta play in forming modern law? Many church rituals are based on"Pagan" ones. We are here because we are here. It is too big a question for our mind to contemplate hence the varied "solutions" conjured up to explain it. I like "Man created god in HIS own image" rather than the reverse because it is more likely. Why would our earth centred physiology resemble that of god who is presumably "of the Universe" which again is too big and complex for us to understand. "WE must have been created for some purpose" . Most think along those lines at some time during their lives, but isn't that a form of conceit? "I'm TOO IMPORTANT to just DIE. Well the instinct to live is a very strong one, and everyone one here is attestation to that fact because all our successful string of ancestors must have possessed it ,or you wouldn't be around. A slight extension of it creates an afterlife as a necessity. Nev
dutchroll Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Ah yes the afterlife. I've never quite understood the religious fascination with the afterlife, other than to say that for the religious it seems to be a necessity (or consequence?) that you're actually petrified of the fact that your life will eventually end. Thus an afterlife must be concocted, and only you and your fellow believers will be permitted there. It's all a bit weird, though I do fancy the afterlife espoused by Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, where consignment to Hell is accompanied by free beer and strippers.
Old Koreelah Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 So the ultimate question still remains - Why are we here on earth ? Thanks Dazza. I've been waiting for someone to ask... We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here... (Sung with gusto by a large inebriated mob to the tune of Auld Lang Syne.)
Old Koreelah Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Ah yes the afterlife. I've never quite understood the religious fascination with the afterlife, other than to say that for the religious it seems to be a necessity (or consequence?) that you're actually petrified of the fact that your life will eventually end... I'm so tired that The Big Sleep is enticing.
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