Harbourtrade Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Do educated people actually believe in God anymore? I get it that many third world countries still do, the Middle East, Phillipines, South American countries, but people in the West? Surely not? Yes, I know, the US needs someone to tell them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 What's happening with Islam now is just the same as Christianity back a while. A French King forced religion on the Nordic peoples .under penalty of death. Believe in something or die. That's an oxymoron if belief is believed in. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbourtrade Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I believe you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbourtrade Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 However ignorance was a justifiable excuse then. It's not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Harbourtrade Christians started institutions like universities and hospitals that we now take for granted. A few pages back one of the resident Athi's was repeating the common 'flat earth' myth so this seems appropriate: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 What's happening with Islam now is just the same as Christianity back a while. There is some truth in this Nev. The Christian reformation was about returning to the teachings of scripture and tossing all the ungodly trash the RC church at the time had added - the cry was Sola Scriptura and salvation by faith in Christ. Now it is the time of the Moslem reformation, millions of them are turning to and reading the teachings of the Koran and the example of Mohammad. As the Koran is the antithesis of the Bible (read both) the result is instead mass bloodshed, violence and unrest wherever Islam is practiced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 There is some truth in this Nev. The Christian reformation was about returning to the teachings of scripture and tossing all the ungodly trash the RC church at the time had added - the cry was Sola Scriptura and salvation by faith in Christ. Now it is the time of the Moslem reformation, millions of them are turning to and reading the teachings of the Koran and the example of Mohammad. As the Koran is the antithesis of the Bible (read both) the result is instead mass bloodshed, violence and unrest wherever Islam is practiced. Surely you must be joking. The problem with religion is that it attracts nutters who obviously want to be led by something and not have to think critically. In the islamic book just as in the christian one, there's a whole lot about love and peace and another whole lot about bloodshed and atrocity. In this as in all religions people take the bits that reflect their own characters and aspirations; the majority will try to live by the love & peace bits, the violent nutters will try to live by the bloodshed & atrocity bits. Look no further than the southern states of the US to see violent nutters with unrestricted access to assault weapons and an unhealthy interest in the more ridiculous bits of their holy book. Granted they don't slaughter as many people as the islamic nutters, but that's because thankfully they live in a modern secular society where law & order, for the most part, rules. If "christian" countries were theocracies like most of the middle east, and the population is required to at least pretend to be devout, then those nutters have the added encouragement that the state actually shares their beliefs. This is why a truly secular society is not only preferable but vital. I cannot understand for the life of me why religious folks regard secularism with such distaste. It's excess religiosity that leads to atrocity, not the lack of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I get it, more intelligent = less able to understand. Thanks for your gem of wisdom there Don Neat piece of argument there Gnarly but let me explain again if you are having trouble grasping the logic. I know logic is not important in matters religious but it is when having an argument. Clearly, it is easier to understand something that makes sense than something that does not. In fact, it is by definition *not* possible to understand something that does not make sense. So it makes perfect sense for an intelligent person to have difficulty understanding something not clever said by a not clever person. Please don't ascribe this "gem of wisdom" to me - I can't claim authorship of the fact that religious people are less intelligent than non-religious people as it came from the scientific study. Oh, but wait a minute, Science must be crap because it doesn't align with the Bible.[ATTACH]47532._xfImport[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Tell me Gnarly Gnu, how do you feel about a religion that likes to attack people they see as blasphemers? Were the Muslims right to attack Charlie Hebdo? If somebody showed you a picture like the following, would you want to physically punish them for mocking your god? [ATTACH]47531._xfImport[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Haha you crack me up Don! All this in response to my #1696 post which was simply a link to a Federalist article. You really complain that you can understand a link? You do get that I didn't write the linked article and that it was actually written by an Atheist? Re blasphemy have you noticed that the violent response problem exists with Islam or are you like Marty who can't grasp the differences between faiths? From the silly question you posit above it would seem so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 GG, I am no fan of a religion that promises death to anyone who blasphemes. What part of "Sticks and Stones" do they not understand. My question to you was how do you feel about blasphemy. Christian England was still executing blasphemers well after the Dark Ages. That video was another crock and a total waste of electrons. If the Christian churches were so enlightened why was it that Copernicus refused to allow his work to be published until after he was dead? And why were the enlightened christians burning people at the stake in Rome in Galileo's time. Perhaps the two are linked. The Dark Ages are named such because of the lack of enlightenment. But, you would hardly expect a "Professor" of some Mickey Mouse University to understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Which Christian churches are you referring to? That you believe Providence College is a "Mickey Mouse University" suggests you are at best confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Which Christian churches are you referring to? Why is it I only ever get questions from my questions? You never answer when it gets difficult just change the point of attack. But, to answer your question . . . probably not your particular religion because it hadn't been invented in the Dark Ages. It had to wait for a new period of unenlightenment to spread its mythology to people who would rather believe than think and look at the evidence. That you believe Providence College is a "Mickey Mouse University" suggests you are at best confused. Seems there is more than one "Providence College". You could have been quoting from the Rhode Island Providence College, but somehow I doubt it since you are so prejudiced against the Catholic Church. "Providence College is a primarily undergraduate, liberal arts, independent, not-for-profit, Catholic institution of higher education." No, probably your video crock came from Providence College of Prager University. Seems any institution can confer "University" status on itself. Here is a quote from their own website: "Prager University is not an accredited academic institution and does not offer certifications or diplomas." Gnarly, I am happy to retract "Mickey Mouse University" as a description of Providence College - that could be seen as elevating it to a lofty status to which it could never aspire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 If somebody showed you a picture like the following, would you want to physically punish them for mocking your god? To answer your question absolutely not. It is surprising to me you would even ask this which is why I assumed you were just being silly - if you actually understood the immense doctrinal differences between the Bible and the Koran you would not need to ask this question. I fear for people that blaspheme, but then I also understand why it is; punishing them would be the last thing in my mind. But the people in your picture are young, you and I have one foot in the grave and we should know better right? To anyone reading this you can of course chose not to believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ however if you live in a western country and are honest with yourself you would have to admit that you have personally benefited immensely from his teachings many of which are very much part of our western culture and laws which we tend to take for granted. So ask yourself: why would you curse and deride this man Jesus? You have benefited and he has never harmed you in any way, so why mock a person you have never even met? Why not also mock other historical figures or leaders? Could it be that there is something driving you to mock that particular person above everyone else? Matthew 20v19 "and they will deliver him up to the nations to mock and to scourge and to crucify, and the third day he shall rise again." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Don, arent those men practicing semaphore? As far as Christianity or any other religion providing a better lifestyle or safety, I fail to se what they have done that normal people wouldn't do, Without religion to guide us we would have had our inbuilt moral ethics, which to me seem better than those provided by religion I recently heard an academic explaining that the Popes insistence on celibacy was the cause of priests abusing children. Obviously to a Catholic priest, the Pope has more influence than the laws of the land, also there is little moral leadership. One of the quoted good things about Christianity is the ten commandments. Do you know what they are? Would a real God require the first few of them, or is it really feeling insecure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I fear for people that blaspheme so I guess you fear for blasphemers like me because you know that your creator , who created the universe (which contains approximately 70 sextillion or 7 x 1022 stars) loves us SO MUCH that if we don't love him back he will inflict unspeakable torture on us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Sure... As people worthy of some admiration,... IF the "story" is not fabricated (and it took a while to compile it) This Guy Jesus wasn't corrupted by money and thought the church of the time was a bit on the nose. "You have made my Father's house a den of thieves" and tipped over the tables of the moneychangers. He wasn't a snob either. I wonder what he would make of most of the modern churches. Doubt he would be impressed by some. Seems a reasonable sort of person. The old testament by contrast has a lot of BAD stuff going on. women get treated poorly and it's OK if you are one of gods chosen otherwise you get a very poor time of it. Bit like some parts of the world today. IF you are with the right mob it's fun killing people who dare to think a bit different to you. The bible is the word of god?? Really !!Just WHICH part is... as there are many contradictions I reckon a lot of guys wrote it Not much evidence of a feminist ..Certainly Constantine made it a Holy Trinity.( 3 gods) by proclamation, enabling the Muslims to build on christianity and introduce the far more likely of a lot of unlikely possibilities. ONE true GOD and a new prophet and state there won't be any more.prophets. Hell I find it hard to write this stuff..Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Yeah I think the Bible was written by a group of blokes on the piss over a lot of drinking sessions as a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Yeah I think the Bible was written by a group of blokes on the piss over a lot of drinking sessions as a joke. I don't think I could drink that much. Pretty sure Revelations was written by someone after a meal of magic mushrooms, Leviticus by a psychopath and Song of Solomon by a horny monk. To answer your question absolutely not. It is surprising to me you would even ask this which is why I assumed you were just being silly - if you actually understood the immense doctrinal differences between the Bible and the Koran you would not need to ask this question. I fear for people that blaspheme, but then I also understand why it is; punishing them would be the last thing in my mind. But the people in your picture are young, you and I have one foot in the grave and we should know better right? To anyone reading this you can of course chose not to believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ however if you live in a western country and are honest with yourself you would have to admit that you have personally benefited immensely from his teachings many of which are very much part of our western culture and laws which we tend to take for granted. So ask yourself: why would you curse and deride this man Jesus? You have benefited and he has never harmed you in any way, so why mock a person you have never even met? Why not also mock other historical figures or leaders? Could it be that there is something driving you to mock that particular person above everyone else? Matthew 20v19 "and they will deliver him up to the nations to mock and to scourge and to crucify, and the third day he shall rise again." "Immense doctrinal differences" is a leap. Both religions are from the middle east, both posit a creator/supreme being, both are Abrahamic and both acknowledge Jesus as an important figure. When viewed from an outside perspective it's like Holden and Ford. Jesus might have been a paragon of virtue. (An objective view might simply be that he was a political agitator who came to the same Roman end as thousands of others...) But, let's say he was a really nice guy who helped people. What makes him any better than Weary Dunlop or Katrina Dawson or Bob Brown or Albert Einstein or any of the other hundreds of thousands of good people over the generations since? So when you say "Why would you curse and deride this man Jesus?" (not sure that forming "YMCA" counts as cursing or deriding, by the way...) OR Mohammed or the Dalai Lama or that saucy minx Mother Theresa for that matter... could it be that it's because their followers take themselves just a little too seriously? The mocking is not for the object of the mockery - let's face it, both Jesus and Mohammed popped their clogs well over a thousand years back, young Tessy a bit more recently - so they don't care a bit. Any "mockery" is aimed well and truly at their worshippers. I'm quite sure that if anyone said Bob Brown should have people praying to him 5 times a day, they may have the pi$$ taken out of them a little too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Wouldn't it be good if the churches had to pay Tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 When they are in the business of making money, like the Poker machines which is actually TAKING money they should be treated as any other business. Any real charity should not be taxed on their "charitable efforts" Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest john Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 At a Religious Instruction School Class: A Minister of Religion was lecturing the matriculation students at a High School Class about the flaws with Atheism as opposed to the truths & realities of Biblical Creation. A smart ass got up at question time & told the Minister he was telling a lot of mythical Bullshxt. In response when the smart ass had finished what he had to say, the Minister asked the smart ass to come to the front of the class & read a verse from the Psalm 53 verse 1 which read: "THE IMPIOUS FOOL SAYS IN HIS HEART, THERE IS NO GOD". The rest of the class laughed at the smart ass as he walked back to his desk looking at his boots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbourtrade Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I think I've missed the point. Please explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Religion deciding who is a fool? Nothing wrong with being impious and that naturally means that you don't belive in God. Just a case of calling osomeone a fool with no proof. Rather like a Qld politician calling bikie gang members criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Just another sign of its insecurities, really. If the bible was so self-evidently true, it wouldn't need all the warnings and threats to those who don't believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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