DonRamsay Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 What's wrong with just saying "I'm an Atheist", being happy and going about your business without finding one way after another to launch ridiculous attacks. Turbo, that video does not apply to you nor was it addressed to somebody like yourself who seeks evidence and questions everything. It *was* addressed to the extreme Christian fundamentalists like Gnarly who like to look down on atheists because they accept scientific method over hereditary belief systems and are destined for Hell. Surely if it is fair for Gnarly to tell me, based on his belief system, tha I won't be going to Heaven, it is fair for me, using the exact same source, that he won't be going to Heaven either. Surely, I would be doing him a disservice to allow him to be deceived into thinking he was going to Heaven (a heaven that does not last forever). I know, don't call me Shirley.
Marty_d Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 You're good at missing the point. It must be common to miss the point, 'cos I can't see it either. This whole thread was started by someone "giving a backhander" to atheists. But somehow it's not ok to point out the faults in their particular belief system?
facthunter Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 The issue is who started all this? It was intended to ridicule a particular group (Atheists) without doubt.. Many atheists come from having a deep faith which has not survived. There are many who in wars and such inhumane environments LOSE their faith because they can't understand why a god would allow such abject misery and pain. Christianity bases a lot on assertion the Bible is the word of God. Why can't ANY student of the bible point out it's inconsistencies and lack of reason and logic. An atheist may well be a student of many religious texts. there's no law against that and if there is some compelling and persuasive stuff there may even be a risk of becoming a believer.Not all believers set a good example. IF they get to heaven and I have to sit near them, It won't be heaven. Nev
octave Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 You're good at missing the point. Oh be nice turbo! I merely wanted to know whether your objection to the posting was in relation to the factual content of the video or the posting of it at all. You have to admit that What other people might be doing, or might do may be of great interest and fun to you, and who am I to try to stop you dreaming, spurred on by the guts of #1839 is quite an awkward sentence. Anyway how is that original research you are doing into mitochondrial DNA going? I await your findings with great anticipation. (#1813)
Kyle Communications Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 So, Gnarly and all true believers, anything in the following that you disagree with? Now I thought that was spot on and on the money....I must be a atheist what a good pointed video about literal interperations
Marty_d Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 "Fundamentalist" - a word that combines irony and accuracy. Irony: It begins with "fun" Accuracy: It contains "Mental".
bexrbetter Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 ...unlike the believer, who would NEVER ridicule .... another believer with a slightly different shade of faith... Or dare start a war over it ....... What's wrong with just saying "I'm an Atheist", being happy and going about your business without finding one way after another to launch ridiculous attacks. Errr, cause it's fun?
damkia Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Thank you for 93 pages of "Aviation Laughter" . Is it time to put this to bed yet, and simply agree to disagree? Perhaps theological debates should be conducted offline, or simply do not look at threads that have offended you in the past to see if they have offended you even more now. Maybe this is one thread for the scrapheap.
turboplanner Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Good advice for yourself Damkia, we are discussing the matter without fear or favour, and some exceptionally good information has come out of this thread. I certainly read every post and have a lot more researching to do.
DonRamsay Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 . . . Is it time to put this to bed yet, and simply agree to disagree? . . . I suggested something like that about 1,500 posts back but I still can't seem to take my own sound advice. I have found it a great test for my own ideas. I like my prejudices or earlier conclusions to be challenged. Many may be quite surprised to know I enjoy an argument . Not bickering but looking hard and challenging poor logic and "facts" that are really just opinions. True, not many contributors have shifted their position but there have over 17,300 views of this thread. Plenty of lurkers watching from the sidelines and despite this all being "Aviation Laughter" it has been a pretty serious discussion. I have reached a stage in my life, known as "grumpy old man" where I find it very difficult to have something I strongly disagree with presented to me as "Gospel" and not challenge it. I will never again sit back and accept belief over scientific method. Logic must triumph over faith otherwise we might as well give up on science based medicine and go back to consulting shrews in the forest at midnight. This has been a challenge of enlightenment against superstition. It is a battle that will go on as long as people want to take the easy certain way of taking somebody's word for nonsense over, well, facts and logic.
facthunter Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 So far it's only been humans who have contributed and they are not perfect. Unless the "BOSS" drops in I don't think we are up to solving this one. If I'm wrong and we do, the universe is our oyster. Golly Don, where are these shrews in the forest at midnight? They might be an improvement on the doctors I have had till now. Also.. Where are the Ladies in all this discussion? Hope my ancestor didn't lose a rib for nothing. Nev
Kyle Communications Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 Well don't forget that the earth was seeded by aliens and they have been watching us for millennium. You never know the "boss" could drop in one day....disclosure is coming they say
rankamateur Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 I arrived at that conclusion during primary school long before I knew that Scientology even existed. We are all taking part in a huge experiment to see just how big the mess we can make of the place before our resources run out.
bexrbetter Posted February 12, 2015 Posted February 12, 2015 ........... and God promised Men that good and obedient wives would be found in all corners of the world, Hallelujah! .. and then he made the earth round, sick bastard.
DonRamsay Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 A man suffered a serious heart attack while shopping on holiday abroad. The shopkeeper called an ambulance when she saw him collapse to the floor. The paramedics rushed the man to the nearest hospital where he had emergency open heart bypass surgery. He awoke from the surgery to find himself in the care of nuns at a Catholic Hospital. A nun was seated next to his bed holding a clipboard loaded with several forms, and a pen. She asked him how he was going to pay for his treatment. "Do you have health insurance?" she asked. He replied in a raspy voice, "No health insurance." The nun asked, "Do you have money in the bank?" He replied, "No money in the bank." Do you have a relative who could help you with the payments?" asked the irritated nun. He said, "I only have a spinster sister, and she is a nun." The nun became agitated and announced loudly, "Nuns are not spinsters! Nuns are married to God." The patient replied, "Perfect. Send the bill to my brother-in-law."
kasper Posted February 17, 2015 Posted February 17, 2015 clipped ... Logic must triumph over faith otherwise we might as well give up on science based medicine and go back to consulting shrews in the forest at midnight. ... Oh dear, shrews are very thin on the ground around here, or will medicare be distributing them as required ?
Marty_d Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Heard something very disturbing on the radio the other day. One of the producers was tossing up whether to send her child to the religious education class or the ethics class, so she made a radio program about it (as you do!) Anyway, they had a sound bite of the guy who was running the RE class answering questions from the kids - 6 year olds - "Yes, god made everything. Yes, he made the world and everything in it." etc etc. Not "Some people believe that god did this...", but just presented as a statement of fact. Then there were some interviews with kids who had attended this class. All of them were parroting what the guy said, and all of them had a firm belief that god existed. This is perhaps not surprising as kids will believe anything, especially when it's told to them as undisputed fact by an adult (who is not their parent) in a classroom setting. My 6yo has come home and earnestly presents some "fact" that his friends have told him, despite it being totally illogical - so when they get someone in a classroom setting, acting like a teacher (who are supposed to tell them real facts), how much more credence will they give it? I was appalled at this. IMHO our schools are meant to teach stuff that is generally acknowledged as real, and if it's presented as a statement of fact and causation (eg "the world exists because god created it") then it should be provable. If people want their kids to believe the same things as they do, then it's up to them to teach them at home, or send them to Sunday school, or whatever. It should not be part of the public school curriculum.
DonRamsay Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 While I have been a long term supporter of the Libs and continue to be for their sound economic management approach, the insistence by Tony Abbott of religious ministers and banning ethics teachers was the final straw. Now I can't wait for him to be gone. Last thing we need in Australia is politicians using their position to try and turn Australia into a theocracy.
kasper Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 http://www.thevine.com.au/life/parenting/atheists-make-better-parents-20150204-293892/ Hmmm ... does that explain why I'm the most popular uncle in my family ... though my husband is also in the running for that title ;-P
Marty_d Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 http://www.thevine.com.au/life/parenting/atheists-make-better-parents-20150204-293892/ Hmmm ... does that explain why I'm the most popular uncle in my family ... though my husband is also in the running for that title ;-P The fact that you're cool because you fly might have something to do with it. Also if you spoil the little buggers rotten... my sister is favourite aunt, only because she turns up with Kinder Surprises.
turboplanner Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 While I have been a long term supporter of the Libs and continue to be for their sound economic management approach, the insistence by Tony Abbott of religious ministers and banning ethics teachers was the final straw. Now I can't wait for him to be gone. Last thing we need in Australia is politicians using their position to try and turn Australia into a theocracy. Tony Abbott is one of 150 members of the House of Representatives, and I'm surprised Don that you are not aware that in any policy matter, the Liberal Party requires the Leader to do the talking. This is to prevent the message being diluted by others who may or may not be in tune with the intent. I'm not sure of the history of this decision, but from what I just trawled on the net, it seems to be general liberal policy both here and in the US, rather than the thought bubble of a Prime Minister. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-11/curriculum-critic-wants-more-religion-to-be-taught-in-schools/5195410 http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/parents-support-judeochristian-teaching-lnp-20111115-1nh29.html http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/i8575.html
octave Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Tony Abbott is one of 150 members of the House of Representatives, and I'm surprised Don that you are not aware that in any policy matter, the Liberal Party requires the Leader to do the talking. This is to prevent the message being diluted by others who may or may not be in tune with the intent. I'm not sure of the history of this decision, but from what I just trawled on the net, it seems to be general liberal policy both here and in the US, rather than the thought bubble of a Prime Minister. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-11/curriculum-critic-wants-more-religion-to-be-taught-in-schools/5195410 http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/parents-support-judeochristian-teaching-lnp-20111115-1nh29.html http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/i8575.html Although initiated by the Howard government the Labor government was not really much better. The Australian Christian Lobby (ACL) seems to exert an enormous amount of influence on both parties. In my view religion has no place in school other than in a historical sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Christian_Lobby http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_school_chaplaincy_program
PA. Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 Did you know the Sun rotates around Earth? You didn't? You must watch this little film of enlightenment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Jp_XCvVto PS Yes I think the presenter is a dickhead.
facthunter Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 A real problem That gross ignorance even exceeds some of ours. Nev
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