Old Koreelah Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 I'm sure the air will be fine and unless people want to go back to the horse and cart. Oil production is here to stay for the immediate future. She'll be right mate.
Old Koreelah Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 OK, I'm all for pure renewables, we use some solar ourselves and plan to get more. However a household is far different to commercial premises - shopping centres, office blocks, manufacturing, entertainment venues, the list goes on and on with places that need more power, and more reliable, than solar can provide... This may be true now, but why are we still erecting buildings without solar roofs? Our cities could quickly become net exporters of energy if they were built for the future. Plus if - WHEN - the large scale takeup of electric vehicles happens, charging stations are going to need seriously heavy baseload... Maybe not. Electric vehicles will spend much of their day parked- a great opportunity to soak up the excess solar power being generated by all those rooftop cells. With sensible design, they could provide much of the solar storage capacity we need. The point is that the world is at a vital crossroad right now... One day the technology for purely renewable power to provide all needs may exist; in the meantime, if we wait for that to happen... In the forty years I have been pushing solar and other renewables I have heard "one day" so many times. That "One Day" has arrived. It is time for us to bite the bullet and DO SOMETHING. The recent uptake of solar and other renewables has been a great success; why not build on it? we'll find ourselves living with all the disastrous consequences that 5+ degrees rise will bring. Fast-breeders may provide that stopgap - one professor from UTAS stated that because their power extraction from uranium is 100 times more efficient than regular nuclear, the worlds existing stockpile of uranium - without digging any more out - could provide enough energy for the next 500 years, I assume based on current consumption. If they're safe, produce no radioactive waste and actually consume existing waste, as well as producing no carbon dioxide, why wouldn't they be far preferable to coal fired generation? The lead time for any form of nuclear power station is long and much of the technology unproven. Solar is here NOW and is improving all the time. Australia is still a significant player in developing this technology. Why trash yet another sunrise industry and import expensive foreign-owned technology?
bexrbetter Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 There is anything between 3.5 billion to 233 billion barrels of shale oil under Cooper Pedy. Potentially 20 Trillion dollars worth.I'm not worried about the planet running out of oil anytime soon. All true but only of value if it doesn't take 21 trillion to process it. The current resources mentioned are of course close to or even on the surface. Interestingly my friend's company did a shale valuation for the Jordan Government recently, I have all the info, I'll see if I can post it or not.
facthunter Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 The value of all these thing depends on demand. A lot of people are getting jittery about some of the ones that aren't low picked fruit. The older industries are trying hard to get as much dough as they can out of their investments. Starting a war on environmentalists or renewable power proponents is anti intuitive, long term. Transmission costs are the bulk of supply costs with electricity. The GRID system is not sustainable as it is currently done. It's not an easy one to solve, but I wouldn't want shares in coal fired power companies. Nev
dazza 38 Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 All true but only of value if it doesn't take 21 trillion to process it. The current resources mentioned are of course close to or even on the surface. Interestingly my friend's company did a shale valuation for the Jordan Government recently, I have all the info, I'll see if I can post it or not. Extracting oil from shale is getting cheaper all the time as technology improves. PS- I did a bit of research and ATM costs between $25 to $95 a barrel to produce.
facthunter Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 They used to do it in the Blue Mountains during the war, ( GLEN DAVIS??) Not far from Kandos. Nev
octave Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Extracting oil from shale is getting cheaper all the time as technology improves. As is the cost of renewables. [
rankamateur Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 As is the cost of renewables.[ Yes, but getting cheaper from a far higher baseline!
octave Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Yes, but getting cheaper from a far higher baseline! so what are the relative "baselines"
rankamateur Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 When I put my first solar system in 150W panels were $2000 each, they are nothing like that now but they aren't cheap yet either. While ever China controls most of the rare earth metal reserves world wide, they won't get cheap either.
octave Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 When I put my first solar system in 150W panels were $2000 each, they are nothing like that now but they aren't cheap yet either. While ever China controls most of the rare earth metal reserves world wide, they won't get cheap either. CSIRO is doing some great work with low-cost solar panels, even printable solar cells http://www.csiro.au/Portals/Media/Printing-Australias-largest-solar-cells.aspx of course without good storage photovoltaics can not be the whole solution. Thermal solar shows promise. The idea that we will only generate energy from one source in the future, be it coal or solar or wind to my mind is a foolish notion.
Marty_d Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 I am all for a variety of sources. We are wasting ideal opportunities in this country to make solar/thermal heliostat stations. We need to support the CSIRO as they're developing better PV collectors that collect more of the solar spectrum than before, not ripping money from them. You're right OK, the cars should act as batteries, the roofs should be all PV (my prediction is printed colourbond - just screw 'em on and plug 'em in), wind turbines where it's windy and hydro where possible. Then there's the ideas from Germany - methane burning generation from cow sh*t, I believe the Chinese even do it with human sh*t. Passive solar design and high performance building materials that conserve energy. As well as that, I can't see the problem with liquid-metal cooled fast breeder reactors. They don't need to be placed right on the coast and they don't use water for cooling. We have a huge stable land mass that's geologically pretty quiet. They don't produce radioactive waste and as they can also used existing radioactive waste for fuel, maybe we could also generate some income getting rid of nuclear waste from other countries instead of burying the problem and forgetting about it.
Old Koreelah Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 I totally agree Marty- except that nuclear has to be a last resort, or the big end of town will use it to push renewables aside. They fear the smaller profits from something they cannot monopolise.
Old Koreelah Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 The Germans can't understand us: http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-24/solar-track-becoming-cheapest-energy-source-agora-energiewende/6251322
nomadpete Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 At first I was going to yell "Thread Drift". But then I realised that Athiests don't mind discussing any of the Gods..... Including the god 'greed' or 'power' or 'wealth' all of which seem to have plenty of followers in the oil industry. Carry on please!
Old Koreelah Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Wotz rong wif thread drift? To return to original topic: [ATTACH]47550._xfImport[/ATTACH]
Marty_d Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Good point OK. Maybe we can send the bible'n'gun totin' hillbillies to Iraq... oh, wait, they did that. Twice.
Old Koreelah Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Obama is doing his best to stop America's crazy right wing from declaring war on Islam. Meanwhile the IS barbarians abduct and slaughter more innocents, hoping to start that war, so they can assume leadership of their side.
coljones Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 There is anything between 3.5 billion to 233 billion barrels of shale oil under Cooper Pedy. Potentially 20 Trillion dollars worth.I'm not worried about the planet running out of oil anytime soon. There are trillions (and trillions) of water in the ocean but you couldn't water your garden with it unless you were to spend huge amounts of money desalinating it. Just because something exists doesn't mean it is accessible at a cheap enough price or legally to make economic or social sense. Is it cheap enough for the buyer or dear enough for the producer/owner? Green cheese on the moon? - probably not in my lifetime - but some entrepreneur or politician is out there now selling shares in the "Lunar Cheese Mining Company NL" and there will be suckers buying.
pmccarthy Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Ah...the No Liability company. An Australian invention I believe, so that investors in gold mines would not be held responsible for the company debts if they failed. Without it, we Victorians would still be living in slab huts and herding sheep.
facthunter Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Maybe so they don't have to clean up all the Cyanide. Nev
bexrbetter Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 To return to original topic: The point is clear OK but I can see the 'Merican girls hair, skin and some boobies (lucky Bible). Her ability to actually aim and kill someone is likely a bit less as well. The number of recent attacks on railway and bus stations here that have seen a hundred killed were generally by groups of 5 Muslim females yielding bloody big knives/small swords, that takes some doing even for a man. A lot of pre-thought and training to accomplish such a feat.
bexrbetter Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Obama is doing his best to stop America's crazy right wing from declaring war on Islam. Meanwhile the IS barbarians abduct and slaughter more innocents, hoping to start that war, so they can assume leadership of their side. Regardless of if one is a pacifist etc or "right wing", the fact is land, food and water are running out relative to population expansion - there is a time coming that something has to give and it ain't going to be pretty. Ultimately I can't see how "Them or Us" can be avoided (some flexibilty as to who you see as "Them").
Marty_d Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 Regardless of if one is a pacifist etc or "right wing", the fact is land, food and water are running out relative to population expansion - there is a time coming that something has to give and it ain't going to be pretty. Ultimately I can't see how "Them or Us" can be avoided (some flexibilty as to who you see as "Them"). Condoms.
Old Koreelah Posted February 27, 2015 Posted February 27, 2015 The point is clear OK but I can see the 'Merican girls hair, skin and some boobies (lucky Bible). Her ability to actually aim and kill someone is likely a bit less as well. The number of recent attacks on railway and bus stations here that have seen a hundred killed were generally by groups of 5 Muslim females yielding bloody big knives/small swords, that takes some doing even for a man. A lot of pre-thought and training to accomplish such a feat. A terrible situation there Bex. I have lots of sympathy for peoples like the Uighurs and any ethnic group who feels they and their culture are being swallowed by a huge neighbour. The different reactions of these threatened minorities tells us a lot about their culture and religion. Can we blame this violence on their brand of Islam (which doesn't seem to have been extreme)? Have Tibetans and other minorities resorted to violence? What would Australians do if placed in a similar situation?
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