The Trump Presidency - an analysis

[octave]

Whether or not trump can pardon himself or not is not clear.  Presidential pardons only relate to federal laws and not state, civil or local offences. I understand that there are many state law suits pending.

I think the main thing at the moment is to prevent him from causing more trouble,

 

It is in interesting to watch Trump's speech egging on his followers. Trump urged them to march on the capitol.  :"I will be with you" he said. No he watched in safety on TV.  Giuliani said it would be "trial by battle" whatever that means.   These people then filmed themselves committing  serious crimes.   I guess they thought they would win and be heroes.      I wonder how they feel now given Trump's speech today (which I am sure he did not write) he basically threw them under the bus.  Having revved them up and incited them he is now disowning them in an attempt to protect himself.

 

 

[old man emu]

But you can't pardon until there's been a conviction. Time prevents the completion of due process, unless you want to install a kangaroo court.

[octave]

While pardons are typically given to people who have been prosecuted, pardons can cover conduct that has not yet resulted in legal proceedings.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-pardon-explainer-idUSKBN27O0FT

[octave]

CAN TRUMP PARDON HIMSELF?

There is not a definitive answer to this question. No president has tried it before, so the courts have not weighed in.

“When people ask me if a president can pardon himself, my answer is always, ‘Well, he can try,’” said Brian Kalt, a constitutional law professor at Michigan State University. “The Constitution does not provide a clear answer on this.”

Many legal experts have said that a self-pardon would be unconstitutional because it violates the basic principle that nobody should be the judge in his or her own case. Kalt said that, in his view, was the stronger argument.

Trump could try to pardon himself preemptively to cover the possibility of prosecution after he leaves office.

[old man emu]

a self-pardon would be unconstitutional because it violates the basic principle that nobody should be the judge in his or her own case.

 

But it is only a principle. Any Court hearing an appeal against a self-pardon would have to stick to the letter of the Law, and since there are no letters to stick to, they would have to dismiss the Appeal, despite clearly expressing their distaste for making such a decision. Trump's modus operandi is to manipulate the Law to his advantage. Why would he stop now when he's suspended over the largest pile of shite in US history?

[octave]

It is amazing to me that when some of these questions are put to constitutional lawyers, the answer seems to be "we don't know because it has never happened before"   The whole notion of pardoning people seems a little dubious to me. I have no doubt that he will attempt to pardon himself but I suspect his power is falling away now (hopefully)

[onetrack]

I find it amazing that there hasn't been a major outbreak of firearm violence and anarchy under Trump. Maybe the gun-fondlers are just biding their time, and waiting until the Democrats take power and then they can blame any major outbreak of gun-toting anarchy on the "DemonRats".

[willedoo]

16 minutes ago, onetrack said:

I find it amazing that there hasn't been a major outbreak of firearm violence and anarchy under Trump. Maybe the gun-fondlers are just biding their time, and waiting until the Democrats take power and then they can blame any major outbreak of gun-toting anarchy on the "DemonRats".

It usually effects the shooting sector in this country as well. If the Democrats are coming, a lot of gun owners in the U.S. stock up fearing restrictions. A big run on supplies flows over here as well. For those here that re load their own, we still make our own powder at ADI but all our primers are imported. The U.S. suppliers will put export orders on hold to fill their domestic demand.

[onetrack]

I don't know how much ammunition the Americans need. There was a massive demand on ammunitions supplies when Obama was elected, and the gun-fondlers reckoned they would soon have their backs to the wall in their fortresses. The surge in demand back then, affected ammo supplies in Australia, with a huge wait list for some types of ammo.

 

I reckon half the problem in America must be the low-level lead poisoning the gun-fondlers must suffer from, after their constant exposure to lead.

I reckon the background level of lead in the soil of the U.S. from ammo alone, must be nearing critical WHO safety levels - let alone the lead they've ingested from leaded fuels, and naturally-occuring lead levels.

Lead ingestion is reportedly a major reason behind the Roman civilisation collapse. Maybe Trump sucked on lead paint as a baby, something has to be responsible for his obvious brain damage, and sociopath nature.

 

https://wonder.cdc.gov/wonder/prevguid/p0000015/p0000015.asp

Edited January 9, 2021 by onetrack

[old man emu]

2 hours ago, onetrack said:

Lead ingestion is reportedly a major reason behind the Roman civilisation collapse.

CAUTION! THREAD DRIFT

 

The Spanish brought the tomato back from the New World and it was considered only as a decorative plant for a long time. Then people, the rich of course, started eating it and dying. So the survivors said it was poisonous. Turns out that the Rich were eating the tomatoes off pewter. Early pewter had a very large lead content. Because lead is a poisonous substance, its daily or frequent use resulted in the chemical leaching out of the plate, spoon or tankard and quickly being absorbed into the human body. As a result, many died from pewter poisoning. Tomatoes are very acidic, so hastened the leaching of lead from the pewter.

 

[willedoo]

52 minutes ago, old man emu said:

CAUTION! THREAD DRIFT

 

 

A lot of people would like to throw tomatoes at Donald, so it's probably topic related.

[Marty_d]

2 hours ago, willedoo said:

A lot of people would like to throw tomatoes at Donald, so it's probably topic related.

I'd like to throw the lead at him instead. 

[kgwilson]

It now looks pretty certain the Trump will be impeached. If he is, he will be barred from running for President for the rest of his days. Once the process is set in motion it will not just disappear on the 20th. There are now enough disenchanted Republicans in the Senate to join Mitt Romney and vote for impeachment once it has been passed by Congress. I'm sure there are enough Republicans who can see that he is likely to form his own Trump party and if that happens they will be decimated at the next election. This of course would be great for the Democrats except that Retrumplicans and Republicans could join forces on many issues.

 

Just before the insurrection riots, polls showed that in Trump heartland states and even amongst Republicans in Georgia 70% still support him. That may have dropped a few points now but for some he can do now wrong. Months ago a TV reporter asked some Trump conspiracist supporters what would be needed for them not to vote for him. When asked if he came out on the street and shot an innocent bystander dead would they still vote for him and they said YES. How do you get through to this sort of fanaticism? 10 grams of lead implanted between the eyes at muzzle velocity comes to mind.

[nomadpete]

No, no KGW !

Although many think he deserves it for many reasons, Martyrdom would be the worst thing that could happen to trumpy.

 

BTW, did anybody notice that when Trumpy made his speech telling his followers to march on Capitol and 'its going to be wild',  he did it from behind a bullet proof screen? What does that tell you about how much he trusts his own devout followers? He clearly expected there to be guns in the crowd.

Edited January 10, 2021 by nomadpete

[Bruce Tuncks]

The US has deeper problems than Trump. It was always the case, from the beginning when the guy who wrote that  "all men are created equal" actually owned slaves.

There is a worse lie out there now which is growing here... that is, the lie that anybody can join the rich if they work hard enough and have a bit of talent.

There may be one or two, but all the examples I know of ( Alan Bond, Bill Gates etc ) show this to be a lie.

It used to be that you could live a good ( but comfortable rather than rich ) life by hard work and some talent, and this kept the middle-classes happy enough. But recently, this has changed for the worse .  Maybe the US ( and Australia too ) need to do something very drastic like break up into smaller countries. Those smaller countries would at least have a chance at a modern constitution.

[old man emu]

7 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

he did it from behind a bullet proof screen

Now you mention it, I think that's the first time I've ever seen him talking from behind a bullet-resistant screen. 

 

Listen to this parody

 

[nomadpete]

The warning signs from USA are echoing strongly here in our own country. Our voters are as disenchanted as the American voters. The basic distrust of government started it all off in USA, back in 2016. The recent events have been deliberately brought to a head over there by their own elected president. But the underlying problem has been growing since they first United their states.

Our own governments should be doing a lot of thinking  right now, finding ways to reconnect with the public whom they should be serving,finding ways to act first and foremost in the interests of our people (positive policies). The absence of believable policies (as opposed to rhetoric and cliches)  is what got trump such a big following - the promise to 'drain the swamp'. But the public fell for rrhetoric, and forgot to look for concrete policies. Our own swamp needs draining but we don't need a selfish millionaire to come along, feed us what we want to hear, then repeatedly  betray us like has happened over there. We already feel like that happens to us every election.

Edited January 10, 2021 by nomadpete

[old man emu]

Politicians are just like anyone else who has a career that requires a long "apprenticeship". These types narrow their thinking down to the requirements of their professions and live with tunnel vision. All politicians can see is the retention of their parliamentary place. You can quite easily point out those Members who do in fact work for their constituents, but that work is usually related to dealing with the bureaucratic fixed positions of the Public Service. Those Members are not the ones participating in the development of Party policies.  That's left to the ambitious pushers and shakers for whom the power to rule is the motivator for what they say and do.

 

Even the grassroots Party members who are the ones who put out the posters and hand out the How-to-Vote cards, don't get a say in the creation of Party policy and platforms. And if those in your neighbourhood who are members of a local branch of a Party have no say in policy, what chance have you to have your opinions brought into the light of political discussion. All you can do is vote for the Party whose policy platform has the most points that you agree with.

 

Elections have now deteriorated into Party -v- Party contests where few people actually consider the abilities of the person who the Party has put up as its candidate for your Seat. The Local Member has become an automaton,  brought out and dressed up at election time in order to convince the people that they have a representative.

[facthunter]

Trump himself made the statement "HE could shoot someone in the street and get away with it".

 OME what we are finding lately is the Candidate at preselection is put in  by other than OPEN processes. Ie interference and influence . As you point out. the local  branch members aren't getting much/ any say. Craig Kelly and Scotty from Marketing are examples  but there are many more.  The Liberal Party is Victoria is  affected now . It helped lose them the last State election and they haven't got over it. Nev

Edited January 10, 2021 by facthunter

[onetrack]

Bruce, you have a winner of a post above, with regard to the basic problems of the U.S., its constitution, and American love of, and worship of firearms.

 

The lie about how anyone can become really rich with hard work and a bit of talent, does have a degree of truth to it, that's why it's constantly repeated.

 

But the basis of that ascension to great wealth and power, is that you must have the following skills;

 

1. Be utterly ruthless and care little about your fellow man. Rip them off mercilessly with whatever you engage in.

 

2. Train and work as a senior banking operative, and learn how to charge outrageous amounts in fees and charges (remembering that Musk started PayPal, with its excessive fees, and Bezos was a senior operator in Bankers Trust).

 

3. Ensure you manipulate the laws, regulations and rules of any country you operate in, to ensure you pay no tax, or a laughable amount of tax (Nissan has paid a total of $476 in tax in 3 yrs of operations in Australia).

 

4. Ensure you start a Trust and ensure that Trust holds all your assets, so any tax paid by the Trust is a laughable amount (The Hope Margaret Hancock Trust, set up by Lang Hancock, pays little tax, but has more than $4B in income-earning assets, which continually increases the value of the Trust. The Wright families, Stan Perron, Don Rhodes, and numerous other beneficiaries of their huge W.A. iron-ore royalties - all tied in with Lang Hancock originally - all have huge family Trusts).

 

5. Become a "corporate raider" and ensure you manipulate the company shares system, so you can gain control of a company with huge cash reserves. Once you gain control of the company, strip the cash reserves for your own personal benefit.

Alan Bond was a crook, evidenced by him serving jail time for corporate fraud. Laurie Connell and Richard Holmes a'Court were both corporate raiders and schemers, and both died young, before they could be caught up with.

 

I have been around the corporate mining world long enough to see the constant unethical behaviour of the corporate world, and its employees.

I always get a laugh when they talk of "corporate ethics and morals", as if they are something lofty to pursue. The corporate world has the morals of an alley cat.

 

The problem in our world today is the middle class/small business owners are the groups continually being squeezed - by higher taxes, increased red tape, and endless impositions - as if the middle class and small business owners have the ability to pick up the tab for everything.

The super rich contribute a miniscule amount of taxes, and their fair share of picking up the tab for any countrys expenses - except when they make a huge noise about their philanthropy, when they give away a billion to a favourite charity. The problem is, a billion dollars to the super rich, is the equivalent of the small change in the pocket of our jeans.

Edited January 10, 2021 by onetrack

[Yenn]

The rich get richer because the government wants them to. The rich want a government that lets them get richer and the two get into bed together. What do we see? Lowering taxes for high income earners. Rules in banking changed in direct opposition to the Royal commissions findings.

Nobody in any position of authority can do any wrong, because they haven't broken the rules. The rules are mad so that those in authority are excluded form having to comply. It is a sad society, but netter than the USA. Not due to Scomo, but in spite of him.

[nomadpete]

The apathy has been accelerated by the modern trend of all politicians avoiding open (to the public) announcement of a complete policy portfolio, of a three year plan for which they are accountable, followed by a six year plan, has cheapened out politics to a level of meme trading.

 

Eventually the apathy (disempowered voters feeling helpless) turns to anger......

[spacesailor]

The aged. Sick, and weary shouldn,t have to trudge down to voting place, or get fined !.

Get the pollies to make voting voluntary for seniors and those with mobility problems.

I really struggled last time, SO DESTROYED my vote, in protest !.

We only have to be seen and the name ticked off the register, so why make it compulsory? .

spacesailor

 

[octave]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

The aged. Sick, and weary shouldn,t have to trudge down to voting place, or get fined !.

Get the pollies to make voting voluntary for seniors and those with mobility problems.

I really struggled last time, SO DESTROYED my vote, in protest !.

We only have to be seen and the name ticked off the register, so why make it compulsory? .

spacesailor

 

 

You can apply to be a General Postal Voter 

 

Electors who are registered as general postal voters will be sent ballot papers as soon as practicable after the declaration of nominations for a federal election, the issue of writs for a federal referendum, or according to the legislative timeline for a state or local government election (contact your state Electoral Commission for more details).

Once you are registered as a general postal voter, you will automatically receive your ballot papers in the mail after an election has been announced. You do not need to re-apply for future elections.

 

https://www.aec.gov.au/Enrolling_to_vote/Special_Category/general-postal-voters.htm

 

[kgwilson]

The problems in the US have been getting worse and festering since the days of Richard Nixon and even before that JFK hailed as a great American President by most of the world was assassinated. An analysis on the ABC website by Stan Grant makes interesting reading.  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-10/us-toxic-politics-started-long-before-donald-trump-arrived/13042856 

 

The US has teetered on the verge of collapse for its entire history. For the most part the lies of previous presidents have been with reference to a specific issue. Trump though has made lying an artform and his malignant narcissism won't allow him to lose, at anything. His final act of outright desperation is his undoing. How he has managed to dupe so many people is unfathomable to me but they somehow saw him almost as a God and of course to the devoutly religious God can do no wrong. The red neck, racist, ultra conservative, religious or just plain greedy ambitious politicians saw him as their saviour and ticket to success as well.

 

Well he's gone. Impeachment is certain but it may still not get past the senate. Jail time should be imposed but I doubt it will. Could he be charged with sedition or other criminal acts like trying to force officials to change the election results. Whatever happens the Trump nutters will be out in force once again and the US will continue to try to tear itself apart as always.