Highway bloody robbery!

[coljones]

And the Australian people let the petrol (and mining) companies off without a whimper yet get vocal and agro when the government for good reasons increases taxes, excises and levies. Companies bitch like crazy when they can't dig it up for free, or almost but demur when screwed over by their offshore parent under a tax rorting offshore transfer pricing arrangement. At least with taxes, the money stays in Australia unless we buy Japanese subs, american planes etc.

 

 

[facthunter]

WE haven't made our own version of a competitive fighter since the Avon Sabre, have we? I think we could build our own Sub (again). Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

We we building Mirages at Fishermans Bend

 

 

[facthunter]

I know WE did the extensive fatigue test on them as I was there when it was being carried out. Did we build them I don't know. We DID build the GAF Nomad. Not a fighter, and about it, I am not a skiter. Nev

 

 

[Montymagic]

We need another whitlam someone with the backbone to piss off the big multi nationals and start doing what's best for the people Instead we have governments that make policies for the big end of town plain and simple.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Let's just pay off what Whitlam borrowed first, and wait for the parasites to die off and then we should be able to afford it.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Uhhmmm actually, the Howard Government did manage to pay off Whitlam's/Hawkes and Keatings debt and leave the country in surplus, now we just need to pay off Kevin07 and That red headed clowns debt.

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Abbott is doing his best to set a new record debt.

 

 

[facthunter]

Easy to se who reads Murdoch newspapers and little else.. Expert scrutiny by economists of how Howard spent the money pork barrelling the electorate doesn't give them much for making the most of the economic factors pertaining to the times. In a growth situation the conservative treasury estimates were under actual figures, so surpluses were common. The GFC that knocked most of the world around didn't happen here WHY? Little mention of that fact around in this discussion. Nev

 

 

[Geoff13]

Of course it happened here. It is still happening here. You are dreaming if you think it never happened. And the economy still has not recovered. You just need to count the number of vessels coming in and out of the wharves to know it happened here. Before the GFC there were 6 vessels tied up alongside the container wharves in Brisbane 24/7 with a queue out in the bay waiting to get in. Now you are lucky to see 3 tied up.

 

Speak to any accountant who works with small business and ask them if the GFC never happened or is not still happening.

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[mnewbery]

Thread drift?

 

 

[old man emu]

Thread drift?

Maybe yes, maybe no. But definitely a free place to have a bit of a rant.

 

What this country needs is a revolution to install a nationalistic dictator who is prepared to say "Enough is enough! " and pull the exploiters into line.

 

If it hadn't been for Hitler's anti-semitism and expansionism, Germany would be in a better position today that it is, and it would not have had to cop a military flogging in the process. The only problem with dictatorships is that the term "benevolent dictatorship" is an oxymoron. I suppose that to create a Utopian society it is essential to expel Greed and Mis-use of power. Like that's gunna happen.

 

OME

 

 

[Riley]

Lee Kuan Yew and his PAP party did a pretty acceptable job of 'benevolent dictatorship' in Singapore some 45 years ago. Made the rest of the Far East look pretty ordinary in comparison.

 

 

[johnm]

revolution ? - you bring the guillotine ............. I'll bring the wicker basket

 

 

[old man emu]

While you're at it, get your missus to bring her knitting needles and wool. I need a revolutionary new scarf 'c cause it gets cold on the parapets.

 

OME

 

 

[Powerin]

The petrol price cycle is certainly a mysterious Australian phenomena. I buy fuel in bulk and it tends to be priced to the average...neither high nor low. But really, you guys should be taking advantage of price cycles. At the low end of the cycle the fuel companies are selling at a loss...so why not do your research, fill up then and screw them that way?

 

On Monday the Terminal Gate Price (the wholesale price the service stations buy it at) in Sydney for ULP was about 128c/lt. So if the pump price is down around this level then they are selling at a loss. It won't go lower than the TGP, so keep an eye on that and you know when the bottom of the cycle is coming..... http://www.aip.com.au/pricing/tgp.htm

 

The price of canola dropped by nearly $20/tonne the other day. So a semi load of my canola is suddenly worth $500 less than it was. Have a little think about that next time you lose a few bucks when the price of fuel goes up

 

 

[dazza 38]

What jacks me off is that Diesel is more expensive than unleaded. it is like us diesel drivers are subsidising unleaded petrol. Diesel is cheaper to produce.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

All these different fuels! Lets all convert to a single fuel. The US military are so big that the market follows their lead. Containterisation of freight got a kickoff when they used it to supply their Vietnam War effort. Long ago they decided to convert to one fuel: AvTur.

 

I'd love to have an engine that uses Jetfuel. Available everywhere, mass produced, quality controlled. Price stable.

 

Maybe I could modify my Jab motor to burn it...

 

 

[Powerin]

Supply and demand Daz...unfortunately, and perhaps some cross subsidizing as well. World demand for diesel will affect the price regardless of refining costs. Plus diesel doesn't seem to go through the same cycles as unleaded.

 

Sorry to bring in another farming analogy...there are several qualities of wheat from the top quality high protein wheat used for bread, down to the low quality stuff used for animal feed. There can be a 25% or more difference in price. Quality usually depends on the weather for the year. If we all have a good year and all produce top quality wheat the price will often plummet (depending on world prices). At the same time there will be a shortage of stock feed grains and the price of feed wheat and all feed grains (like barley) will go up so that the crap wheat is nearly worth as much as top quality wheat. Supply and demand.

 

The saddest part of this scenario is the high price of feed barley might also put an upward price pressure on malting barley used for beer! So the price of beer might be because wheat farmers grew too much high quality wheat!

 

 

[old man emu]

But really, you guys should be taking advantage of price cycles. On Monday the Terminal Gate Price (the wholesale price the service stations buy it at) in Sydney for ULP was about 128c/lt. So if the pump price is down around this level then they are selling at a loss. It won't go lower than the TGP, so keep an eye on that and you know when the bottom of the cycle is coming..... http://www.aip.com.au/pricing/tgp.htm

 

The price of canola dropped by nearly $20/tonne the other day. So a semi load of my canola is suddenly worth $500 less than it was. Have a little think about that next time you lose a few bucks when the price of fuel goes up

With respect ...

 

If a woman's cycle was as unpredictable as the petrol price cycle, she'd be hospitalized for stringent gynecological treatment.

 

How is it that the TGP for ULP in Sydney for the weekend 14-17/11/14 was $1.28, with no price quoted for Saturday and Sunday, yet around midday on Saturday the price suddenly jumped to high point of $1.49? There were no deliveries to the servos on the weekend. (Figures from the site you linked to).

 

You must also remember that the price you pay at the farm gate for fuel is basically a business expense that can be applied to your taxable income computations. I'd bet London to a brick that you claim the majority of your fuels coming onto the farm as being a business related expense, even if some of the diesel is used to go into town in the Toyota for shopping. (Good luck to you f you can). However, we city dwellers cannot write off any of our fuel purchases against taxable income, even if we were claiming that the fuel was used in a vehicle that only went to and from our place of employment. Also, the virtual absence of public transport in most residential areas of Sydney (and other metropolitan areas) necessitates the use of privately-owned vehicles.

 

You should count yourself lucky that the price you pay for fuel is an "average" of the TGP over a season. At least you can put realistic figures into your long-term business budget so that you can defend yourself against rising fuel costs.

 

The reason I created the title "Highway Bloody Robbery" is that I know that no other factor than the whim of fuel retailers was responsible for the jump in the price of petrol the other Saturday morning.

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[SDQDI]

Absolutely loved the first paragraph OME:roflmao:

 

But back to analogies, if you live in town and your business is in town there is nothing stopping you claiming for business related expenses eg deliveries, pickups ect. Maybe you can't claim travel to and from work but you can always do what us 'lucky' farmers do and just live at work:ecstatic:.

 

Anyway don't want to start arguments it's just I'm a typical farmer and (want to have a whinge) don't want people to think of us as too lucky or we might get crowded out:wink:

 

 

[Riley]

Uhhmmm actually, the Howard Government did manage to pay off Whitlam's/Hawkes and Keatings debt and leave the country in surplus, now we just need to pay off Kevin07 and That red headed clowns debt.

Cheers Geoff13

Geoff clowns are meant to be funny - there was nothing funny about that red-headed clot. I almost wretch just thinking about it!

 

 

[Powerin]

You must also remember that the price you pay at the farm gate for fuel is basically a business expense that can be applied to your taxable income computations. I'd bet London to a brick that you claim the majority of your fuels coming onto the farm as being a business related expense, even if some of the diesel is used to go into town in the Toyota for shopping. (Good luck to you f you can). However, we city dwellers cannot write off any of our fuel purchases against taxable income, even if we were claiming that the fuel was used in a vehicle that only went to and from our place of employment. Also, the virtual absence of public transport in most residential areas of Sydney (and other metropolitan areas) necessitates the use of privately-owned vehicles.

 

You should count yourself lucky that the price you pay for fuel is an "average" of the TGP over a season. At least you can put realistic figures into your long-term business budget so that you can defend yourself against rising fuel costs.

 

Old Man Emu

With respect......if you buy fuel randomly throughout the year, you too are averaging the cost of fuel. But, if you are smart, you can enjoy the wonders of market speculation and take advantage of one of the most predictable price cycles that occur in the world. Do you really think that because we pay an "average" price that it is actually stable and predictable? The TGP has moved by 3 cents in the last few days! You city dwellers have the advantage of incredible price wars that us country folk can never take advantage of.

 

I would have paid 135.09c on Monday for ULP.

 

Thanks also for the remark that we are all tax cheats. Yes, the majority of our fuel (diesel) is a business expense and we claim around 90% because that is what we use for our business.

 

All I was trying to say is that prices are a volatile thing. You city folk have the advantage of a TGP price indicator that tells you if the bowser price is cheap or not. If it's cheap buy it! There and then. In the next hour it might change.

 

In the farming world if Vladimir Putin says something about troops in Ukraine (Ukraine being a major world wheat grower) it can mean $1000s out of (or into) a farming family's pocket from the price speculations on the world wheat market.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

What jacks me off is that Diesel is more expensive than unleaded. it is like us diesel drivers are subsidising unleaded petrol. Diesel is cheaper to produce.

Diesel in Asia is in demand as its used for power generation.

 

 

[Powerin]

I will admit however that fuel is an essential commodity and people will tend to pay whatever it costs. The city fuel price cycle is a strange thing.

 

With food, another essential thing, the price is often more stable. There is a price point which people are willing to pay for, say, red meat. You will find this is what supermarkets and butchers charge for meat, regardless of what the price of cattle or lamb is in the wholesale market. If farmers are getting cheap prices the supermarkets make a big profit, if we are getting good prices the supermarkets make very little. If the price of red meat is too high consumers will easily turn to chicken or some other food so the price stays relatively stable.