Practical aspects of Metric -v- Imperial measurement systems

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

Dumbed down for Australia.

Not really. Just thing that pre-metrication we had pint milk bottles. 600 ml = 1.055 pints (UK). It was just simpler to use the same bottles and label them with metric amounts.

 

As for using decilitre, why throw in an extra word that you would need to know, but has no real use? If there are 1000 ml in a litre, then 600 ml has to be less than a litre, and 300 ml has to be less than 600 ml. 

 

The French have been using the metric system for over 200 years, so that a word like decilitre can be associated with a physical object. When Australia metricated, there had to be a simple transition between pints, half pints, so it was easier to use the smallest unit and just use bigger numbers.

 

There doesn't seem to be any logic in making soft drink cans 375ml, but 375 ml is 2/3 pint (UK).

 

A schooner is 475 ml, or 15 fl oz, which is 3/4 pint

[octave]

1 hour ago, spacesailor said:

Your foot is the foot length. The first joint of your thumb  is an inch. 

I can say with 100% certainty that my foot is not 12 inches long (my **** is but I don't use it as a rule(r) )  My thumb is also not an inch.

 

To me metric is so much easier.  It takes a little thought (if you are not working with these numbers everyday) to work out the drill bit sizes 11/64 3/16 etc.  So much simpler  to have mm sizes 4, 4.5, 5, 5.5 etc.

 

I m building some shelves at the moment. The unit is 1800mm high and I want 5 shelves 1800/5 so 360mm or 36 cm alternatively the unit is 5 feet 10.87 inches so I guess I would convert it into inches 70.86 inches and divide by 5.

 

 

I suspect that how people feel about the metric system depends on when they went to school.   I was in year 7 when metric was introduced so I am quite comfortable with metric. Without looking it up I know the boiling point of water as well as the freezing point.   I know how much a litre of water weighs and its volume.

 

Imperial will eventually disappear.    Schools teach metric because it is the language of science and it is essential that future generations are scientifically literate.   

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

5 hours ago, old man emu said:

... if you want to buy lumber...

With respect, OME, I am a little sensitive about the Americanization of our culture-

-Perhaps you mean “timber”.

During my long life I never heard anyone among my Australian timber-getting relatives use the American term “lumber”.

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Nope OME. The seven days corresponds to the 7 heavenly bodies as known to the ancients. Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn plus the sun and the moon. Omar Khayam " rose up through the seventh gate, and on the throne of Saturn sate."

They each required a "celestial crystal sphere" to explain their apparently independent movements.

Before those pesky vikings, we had   Sun's day Moon's day and Saturn's day, as now but with the rest of the spheres named after celestial bodies.

Since those vikings, who predated the christians, we have Tiw's day, Woden's day, Thor's day and Frea's day. They were viking gods, and I reckon they were better than the misogynistic middle-eastern ones on account of having a female ( Frea ) among them.

 

 

[old man emu]

1 hour ago, Old Koreelah said:

Perhaps you mean “timber”.

That's what I did mean. I was searching for a all-encompassing word to describe sawn wood that was not in sheet form. A word that would cover for framing timber, decking timber, architrave, tiling battens etc. 

[willedoo]

14 hours ago, old man emu said:

That's what I did mean. I was searching for a all-encompassing word to describe sawn wood that was not in sheet form. A word that would cover for framing timber, decking timber, architrave, tiling battens etc. 

You found an American word. Like Old Koreelah, I've never heard the term used in this country. I think they even say the sizes the other way round, as in 2x4 instead of our 4x2.

[spacesailor]

Metric,.

It didn,t work for me this morning! .

My 2000 litre water tank handle broke, 

SO 

l had to drill through the handle & spindle to bolt it together.

BUT

5 mm too small & 6 mm too big !.

SO had to go Retro 64ths Imperial drill sizes for the Right size.

YES l know l could go Big money, at a Specialty tool shop, for the right size metric.

spacesailor

[old man emu]

The only time I've really heard the word "lumber" used is in "Those bloody old KW trucks came lumbering through town."

 

And now it's 90 x 45. You can't get a 4 x 2 anywhere but in a synagogue. 

[willedoo]

I built my place out of second hand 4x2 ironbark for wall frames and 6x2 ironbark for rafters and joists. It's old demolition timber out of the original local RSL and as hard as your mother in law's heart. It even had to be pre drilled to drive clouts in for triple grips and joist hangers. It's hard to get stuff like that now.

[Jerry_Atrick]

When I first moved to London, I went in to a local butchers and asked for 2 x 150g Scocth Fillet steak.. I got a bemused and perplexed look from the butcher... "What's wrong with English fillet steak? And what is 150g in lbs and oz?"... I let the butcher know I was literally off the boat from Aus and that we just call any fillet steak Scotch fillet, and I was more than happy to have English fillet (but be made a point and got me Scotch fillet, anyway). I said to him I wouldn't have a clue how many lbs or ounces 150g is.. and that I recalled my spoken by parents when I was a very young age.

 

When the national government here mandated that all shops that sell things by the weight display in metric, to conform to EU rules, there was widespread resistance to civil disobedience. It started with the government requiring weights to be displayed in metric only with small fines, but when the people fairly robustly objected, they doubled down and increased the fines to be massive (and did issue a few).. In the end, they backed down and allowed weghts to be showedf in both as long as the metric weight wasw larger (from memory, by a larger percentage).

 

In all honesty, I can't remember how the supermarkets and larger chain stores responded, but these days, you won't see imperial weights in anything but some local village bitchers and the like, as everyone, with the probable exception of people in their 70s+ referring to metric. Most my age (mid 50s) would have problems gauging how much somethign wieghed if it was expressed in lbs and oz (well, except possibly for fisherpeople).

 

 

[willedoo]

You've got to watch those local village bitchers.

[Old Koreelah]

In recent years I have noticed a disturbing number of imperial measurements creeping back into our shops. Hardware stores with whole departments stocked with imperial-only measurements (including ounces and degrees Fahrenheit). There is no longer any effort being made to adapt these products to the Australian consumer who long ago abandoning medieval measurements and metricated.

 

It's obvious that many local businesses simply import container-loads of goods manufactured for the American market and dump them on the hapless Australian consumer, without any effort to ensure these products comply with Australian standards.

 

During the metric phase-in period Australia’s government imposed heavy penalties on businesses displaying imperial measurements. We metricated decades ago with little fuss; now we’re going backwards.

[Yenn]

One of the big dumping problems was with irrigation equipment. Aussie made did not match the cheap imported stuff from the USA. The mismatch was about half a thread per inch, but you couldn't screw them together.

[spacesailor]

I  expect we will return to NATURAL measurements in the Far far future. 

Without those artificial contrived measurements, we certainly will have to " stepout " our Yard size.

What will the next silly thing from the French, S de I, Paris France.

MUSIC 9

no more four bar !? ONLY TEN TO A BEAT?

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

I really cant understand why people struggle so much with metric.  I have no problem with people who prefer to work in imperial but to suggest it is in comprehensible doesn't make sense to me.      The notion that we would return to imperial is just not going to happen.  It is the language of science.

 

Re music spacey - 

Edited January 29, 2021 by octave

[old man emu]

58 minutes ago, octave said:

It is the language of science.

Science is spoken in English, French, German, Danish, Swedish, Russian, Iranian, Chinese and Korean. Your point is ...?

[octave]

OME I have no problem with anyone who is more comfortable working in imperial, but when it comes to education why would we want our children or grandchildren children to have to learn 2 systems of measurent. Sure you could study science and convert everything but why would anyone want to do that.

Earlier I posed a real  question regarding the shelves I am building. They are 1.8m high and I want 5 shelves 1800 divided by 5 easy.   In imperial there are conversions that are required within that system.  How many pounds in a ton? How many stone in a ton? Is that a short ton or a long ton?

 How many ounces in a ton?   How much does a gallon of water weigh? What us its volume.  These are questions that are easily answered in a standardised system.

I would be interested in specific examples of problems that are more easily solved in imperial or that are more complicated in metric.

Please note I have no problem with anyone's personal preferences. By the way when people site the USA as a country that is still in imperial it is not. The American public may be reluctant to adapt but the oficiall system is metric and all imperial measures are defined by the metric system.

[spacesailor]

Octave

I have looked and tried !.

BUT

I Read read music, like l read metric Time.

Beyond my Ken

That's why they STILL teach Latin,  Still sing Operatic songs ,

How high IS 1,8 metres.

5' /5 = 1 foot .

Easy with our new calculators.  l converted 1.8 metres = ( an odd )  5.90551 feet.

l certainly wouldn't TRY measuring  5.9 feet then dividing by 5, 

BUT 60 inch divided by 5 is an easy 12 inch. So five shelves would have that top shelf at 60 inches high. ( plus the Brick it sits on )

SUCH Is Life.

spacesailor

 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by spacesailor

[octave]

 

7 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

l converted 1.8 metres = ( an odd )  5.90551 feet.

so what is 5.90055 divided by 5?     This seems a little more tricky than dividing 1800 by 5.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Still couldent do it in my head 1800 / 5 

Long division ?.

google didn't give me an answer.

spacesailor

[Old Koreelah]

3 hours ago, spacesailor said:

I  expect we will return to NATURAL measurements in the Far far future. Without those artificial contrived measurements, we certainly will have to " stepout " our Yard...

What can be more natural than metric?

Two normal steps=1 metre

one fingernail = 1cm

one finger joint = 50mm

one handwidth = 100mm

one hand span = 200mm

One forearm= half a metre...

it’s easy if you try.

 

[old man emu]

3 hours ago, octave said:

Is that a short ton or a long ton?

Apart from the Canadians, who have decided to follow the Yanks, a ton is 2240 pounds, The Yankee ton is 2000 lbs, which is called a short ton.

 

3 hours ago, octave said:

 How many ounces in a ton?

While it is possible to calculate this, (16 x 2240), it is not usual in either Imperial or Metric to convert from the smallest unit to the largest. We can go through intermediate units  - ounces to pounds; pounds to stones; stones to hundredweights; hundredweight to tons. Similarly we can go from inches to feet; feet to yards; yards to chains; chains to furlongs; furlongs to miles. It all depends on how much or how long the measurement involves. 

 

Octave wants to make a set of shelves 1.8 metres high, so it is best to use millimetres as his basic unit of measurement. 

[willedoo]

37 minutes ago, old man emu said:

Apart from the Canadians, who have decided to follow the Yanks, a ton is 2240 pounds, The Yankee ton is 2000 lbs, which is called a short ton.

I didn't know the American ton is less. Their gallon is smaller. I imagine if they had Pounds instead of Dollars, it wouldn't be the Full Quid either.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I had forgotten about US gallons and imperial gallons. That alone is a good reason to go metric. I hope OME is wrong and they won't introduce a US liter which is smaller.

[old man emu]

I just realised that when I am working on motion problems involving velocity and mass, I use the metric system. This is no doubt due to the fact that I was involved in speed determinations in traffic collisions in Australia and had to give answers in kph. I find that the metric system is good for the mathematics involved in those workings. I just have to remember to convert knots to metres and pound to kgs if I am working with aircraft. 

 

However, when I'm measuring stuff in my workshop, I find that my tired eyes prefer to work with inches. I like to be bi-mensural.