Wave energy plants in Brazil

[Marty_d]

... extensive groin constructions, ...

Eh??

 

 

[facthunter]

A Freudian slip? QLD translate.. as in ingroin toenail... Eh!

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Eh??

Damned spelling again. Groyne.

 

 

[Guest Captain1]

Eh??

Minds going straight to the groin again.

 

It's "groin" in the US, so see groin photo below:

 

 

It is quite disappointing to read this negativity from a Captain of industry. Our current wealth grew out of the Industrial Revolution, during which entrepreneurs enjoyed considerable support from governments. Even so, many of their ventures failed, with far greater damage to lives and fortunes than this wave power venture has cost.

Australia, the land of the (kn)ocker.

G'day to you OK. Not a knocker at all, and not a Captain of anything (but I have been involved in just what we are discussing .... and have worked in Brazil). I'm just a pragmatist. The real knack in that caper is being able to pick what is a real potential breakthrough and what is fanciful idealistic feel-good crap.

 

 

 

Governments & academics do it badly and just throw money at selections made by bureaucrats that most-times have no experience of picking winners out in the real world.

 

 

 

A glaring example has been the Obama administrations selection of feel-good environmental projects that have cost their people billions.

 

 

 

Private industry and entrepreneurs have a better record than governments at this because it really does focus your mind when it is some of your own brass involved, and even then the private investors get it wrong, like the Gong's Wave Generator.

 

 

 

NOW ... OK & Marty .... have another look at those long slender arms on the Brazilian machines and tell me that they won't be destroyed when they cop a big beam-on sea?

 

 

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...The real knack in that caper is being able to pick what is a real potential breakthrough...

I defer to your extensive industry experience, Captain. What would you pick as Australia's energy sources and export earners for the next few decades?

 

 

...A glaring example has been the Obama administrations selection of feel-good environmental projects that have cost their people billions...

... The captains of US industry haven't been too impressive, leading the world into a mess. At least Obama hasn't started another trillion-dollar war. Maybe that's why Rupert's media and the US Military-Industrial Complex has been gunning for him.

 

 

[Guest Captain1]

I defer to your extensive industry experience, Captain. What would you pick as Australia's energy sources and export earners for the next few decades?

 

 

... The captains of US industry haven't been too impressive, leading the world into a mess. At least Obama hasn't started another trillion-dollar war. Maybe that's why Rupert's media and the US Military-Industrial Complex has been gunning for him.

If you really do want to seriously reduce our dependence on coal fired power generation, then the answer is clear. Build some nuclear power generators.

 

 

 

We are on a relatively geologically stable landmass and the technology is so well proven in Europe and the US that it is only blind idealism that keeps us ignoring the benefits. (Now watch the Green's scream here).

 

 

 

If it were me able to influence anything, I would continue to press on with our minerals exports, reduce our gas exports, increase our farming exports (and give the cockies a realistic return by taking margin from the middle men and returning it to the producers ... although I'm buggered if I know how you really achieve that without subsidies which just breed waste), increase live cattle and sheep exports, foster our engineering and services exports and make a huge push for Asian tourism + assist the CSIRO to substantially ramp up their commercial industrial R&D for licensing to industry (the CSIRO can do brilliant work if encouraged in the right areas and if they react to the needs of Industry + have a measure of targeted blue-sky research).

 

 

 

And I'd foster the best 2 or 3 schemes to pump water from the coast to the west of the Divide instead of wasting it all just flowing straight out the sea. (more screams predicted here from preservationist greens)

 

 

 

I reckon that Obama's presidency will be viewed as a failure on all levels by future generations. The only thing he & Holder have achieved in all their time at the helm is to increase/foster racial tensions in the US.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Obama lives in Bush's shadow, he hasn't done anything to match Bush's stupidity. That being said the US is definitely in political trouble with the Republican Party now in control.

 

 

[Marty_d]

If you really do want to seriously reduce our dependence on coal fired power generation, then the answer is clear. Build some nuclear power generators. 

 

We are on a relatively geologically stable landmass and the technology is so well proven in Europe and the US that it is only blind idealism that keeps us ignoring the benefits. (Now watch the Green's scream here).

 

 

 

If it were me able to influence anything, I would continue to press on with our minerals exports, reduce our gas exports, increase our farming exports (and give the cockies a realistic return by taking margin from the middle men and returning it to the producers ... although I'm buggered if I know how you really achieve that without subsidies which just breed waste), increase live cattle and sheep exports, foster our engineering and services exports and make a huge push for Asian tourism + assist the CSIRO to substantially ramp up their commercial industrial R&D for licensing to industry (the CSIRO can do brilliant work if encouraged in the right areas and if they react to the needs of Industry + have a measure of targeted blue-sky research).

 

 

 

And I'd foster the best 2 or 3 schemes to pump water from the coast to the west of the Divide instead of wasting it all just flowing straight out the sea. (more screams predicted here from preservationist greens)

 

 

 

I reckon that Obama's presidency will be viewed as a failure on all levels by future generations. The only thing he & Holder have achieved in all their time at the helm is to increase/foster racial tensions in the US.

Green supporters are like any other people, we don't all think alike. Nuclear in Australia is a good option. I also agree with most of what you said about farming, fair go for the farmers, engineering and services exports, tourism, and support for CSIRO.

 

I don't agree with live export - if they want our meat it can be slaughtered here (halal if they want, there's plenty of qualified halal slaughtermen over here), packaged and sent frozen. Jeez it must be cheaper and far easier to handle containers of frozen meat than live animals.

 

As far as mining goes, it should be limited to land which is unfit for agriculture.

 

Obama in my view is a reasonably decent man doing the best job he can. He's not as good as Clinton but head and shoulders above that retard George Dubya. And I don't think it's him out there on the streets shooting unarmed black kids, so not sure how he's responsible for the increase in racial tension.

 

 

[Downunder]

Until our politicians overcome the need for projects to finish within their term (lest the oppostion gain government and claim it as theirs), there will continue to be no nation building schemes. The last 15 year mining boom should have set the country up for the rest of this century, piping fresh water from the north of the country south. On both the east and west coasts. Turning arid land into irrigated farmland.

 

What do we have instead? Oranges from california...WTF....

 

I was just reading a news article where a chinese company was employed to turn arid land into viable farming land.

 

Apparently they are experts in this field...

 

My first thoughts were "Why are we not experts in arid farming."

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Nuclear is no good, cost a fortune to build and run and creates pollution that can be used to make bombs. Solar and wind are the future

 

 

[bexrbetter]

we should just sit back and sell minerals because China will never slow consumption and the price of iron ore and coal will never go down.

Some of you have no idea how close this came to being true recently, China was in for a massive development of nuclear power stations and was about to start some big programs when the tidal wave hit Japan in 2011 and nuclear power's safety took a big hit. We had started to put a cold isostatic press down on paper specific to building control rods.

 

G'day again Flighty, 

 

You may not have realised it, but "American Venture Capitalists" are not constrained by national borders. Their money is available here if you have something worthwhile and can convince them that it is.

 

 

 

Regards Geoff

True, massive amounts of US money in Hong Kong at the moment for example because the building investment in China is a bit shaky so a lot of it is on hold, i.e. "wait and see".

 

 

[pmccarthy]

The biggest challenge to Australia in the next 50 years will be the consequences of the current downturn in mineral exploration. There is a 25 year lead time (average) to develop a new mining project and we have run out of them. Minerals are where nature put them, not where we wish they were. Every hectare we exclude from exploration reduces the chance of the next discovery. Everything we use in our society is produced by farming (with forestry and fishing) or mining (including petroleum). There is nothing else. Mining underpins our society absolutely.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes, I should have said Groyne.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

The biggest challenge to Australia in the next 50 years will be the consequences of the current downturn in mineral exploration. There is a 25 year lead time (average) to develop a new mining project and we have run out of them. Minerals are where nature put them, not where we wish they were. Every hectare we exclude from exploration reduces the chance of the next discovery. Everything we use in our society is produced by farming (with forestry and fishing) or mining (including petroleum). There is nothing else. Mining underpins our society absolutely.

Another issue for Australia happening right now is the advent of oil shale. There's massive investment going in and it will happen and (despite all the "We will run out of oil by the year 2000" stories from the 70's and 80's) there is a real chance of a huge glut coming and oil fired power stations may become viable over coal.

 

My Daughter's Godfather is quite prominent in discovering and setting up shale mining in Brazil and the US.

 

Of course this oil glut will reduce petrol prices at the pump won't they ..... oh look, a flying pig!

 

 

[Marty_d]

Nuclear is no good, cost a fortune to build and run and creates pollution that can be used to make bombs. Solar and wind are the future

In general I agree with you that solar and wind are far preferable. However the new SMR (Small Modular Reactor) types being designed are a lot cheaper, built off-site and shipped in, and are a lot more secure than current large designs.

 

Besides, there's no point worrying about people making bombs, there's more than enough already available. If some insane group does want to build a WMD from scratch it's cheaper and easier to go biological.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Don't believe the hype, nuclear is still nuclear. So many things can go wrong with it and it just doesn't work long term.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Don't believe the hype, nuclear is still nuclear. So many things can go wrong with it and it just doesn't work long term.

 

There are some 450 plants successfully running, there's been 2 major accidents ever, 3 Mile Island and Chernobyl, and they were both due to outright worker stupidity, and the Japanese earthquake accident due to the tidal wave. So that's 3.

 

Very safe, albeit there should be none built in Earthquake ridden places like Japan at all.

 

Are you aware of how many lives coal mining has and will take?

 

 

[turboplanner]

The issue with the Fukushima plant was poor planning. I've been to that coastal area, and it certainly had protective walls, and signs all over the place to start running into the hills if there';s an earthquake.

 

The Japanese planned their tsunamis defence which included curved sea walls, based on the 1906 earthquake which they thought would be the biggest ever.....just like Australian authorities plan for the 1 in 100 year flood while European settlement is only 200 years old and we don't have a clue what the biggest flood has been over the past 5,000 years.

 

Their mistake was HUGE.

 

There would have been no problem for Fukushima if just the earthquake had hit them, but the seawater rushed in several kilometres and knocked out power lines.

 

That would have been OK except the backup diesel generators were at ground level, and were flooded, so they brought in pumps and pumped sea water on to the rods as best they could.

 

There were no fatalities, but there seems to be a lot of conspiracy theory around just lately.

 

 

[Guest Captain1]

Spot on Bexy and Tubb.

 

 

 

The Fukushima accident was about earthquakes and tsunamis, not the integrity of the reactor & power plant technology.

 

 

 

These nuclear plants are all over western Europe and nobody knows they are there. When you visit the Swiss Alps, or travel serenely down the Rhine or Danube, or walk in the Pyrenees, or chase ladies in Paris then visit the Louvre , where do you think most of the power comes from?

 

 

 

Both earthquakes and tsunamis can readily be built out of the equation in Oz.

 

 

 

Don't let the politically & idealistically motivated nuclear scare mongers convince you otherwise.

 

 

 

Wind, Solar, Wave,Tidal, Hydrothermal, methane digesters or Kevin Rudd sourced hot-air, will NEVER provide adequate base-load power. Although Flyty and his green mates would be happy for you all to have to turn off your AC units and fridges whenever the Wind and Solar units can't keep up. If only the wimpy feel-good politician's Desalination Plants could be reverse engineered from wasted $ billions to produce something useful ..... like power.

 

 

 

Although I also suggest that Hydo should be maximised everywhere that is topographically suitable. But ....Oh No ............ the ratbag Greens don't to build any more dams or dig any channels, do they.

 

 

[Guest Captain1]

Hi Geoff,

For all the faults of the previous Government, and they were many, saving the economy from the recession that hit most of the rest of the world is one of their wins. The fact that they spent that money to keep the economy rolling was a good thing. Could they have done it better? Of course they could. But show me a government that does anything well when it has to be done in a hurry, and this did.

 

Cheers, Marty

Marty

 

 

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

 

 

I reckon that it was the Mining Boom and the then health of the economy and budget surpluses built up by Howard and Costello that insulated Oz from the GFC to some degree.

 

 

 

All Gillard, Swan, Rudd & Faulkner did was stand up against the wall and urinate it all away with PC feel-good policies that placated the Greens and kept them in Government. Those policies wasted the nation's bank balance and if your kids did that to their own finances you would kick their bums (except if their bought an RAA Aircraft, of course).

 

 

 

I can understand the politics of that, but the poor administration of those policies resulted in staggering levels of waste and mismanagement, as has been borne out in the Pink Batts Enquiry.

 

 

 

On the school shed debacle, Faulkner even said that they didn't have time to develop a budget for that initiative. What garbage and what an inditement on their entire administration. Plus their solar power incentives scheme went over budget by multiple factors. That is pure & simple incompetent management by that group and nothing else and we'll all be paying the price for years (and years).

 

 

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[Marty_d]

Marty 

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

 

 

I reckon that it was the Mining Boom and the then health of the economy and budget surpluses built up by Howard and Costello that insulated Oz from the GFC.

 

 

 

All Gillard, Swan, Rudd & Faulkner did was stand up against the wall and urinate it all away with PC feel-good policies that placated the Greens and kept them in Government. Those policies wasted the nation's bank balance and if you kids did that to their own finances you would kick their bums (except if their bought an RAA Aircraft, of course).

 

 

 

I can understand the politics of that, but the poor administration of those policies resulted in staggering levels of waste and mismanagement, as has been borne out in the Pink Batts Enquiry.

 

 

 

On the School shed debacle, Faulkner even said that they didn't have time to develop a budget for that initiative. What garbage and what an inditement on their entire administration. And their solar power incentives scheme went over budget by multiple factors. That is pure & simple incompetence by that group and nothing else.

 

 

 

Regards Geoff

Geoff, it'd be a boring old world if we all agreed on everything!

 

So given your opinion of their spending, what's your opinion of Abbott's plan to pay women who earn a million a year $75,000 pa for 6 months to have a baby?

 

Cheers, Marty

 

 

[Guest Captain1]

Geoff, it'd be a boring old world if we all agreed on everything!

So given your opinion of their spending, what's your opinion of Abbott's plan to pay women who earn a million a year $75,000 pa for 6 months to have a baby?

 

Cheers, Marty

Simple. I reckon that policy is crazy and incomprehensible, and I'm buggered if I can understand why he is pushing it.

 

 

 

Perhaps you and I really are soul-mates and political allies.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...Wind, Solar, Wave,Tidal, Hydrothermal, methane digesters or Kevin Rudd sourced hot-air, will NEVER provide adequate base-load power...

Wrong.

 

Johnny Howard said the same and has been proven wrong. Even this early in the renewable energy era, they already provide a significant slice of base load power. Their potential is enormous and only limited by lack of imagination.

 

 

 

 

We have known how to build very energy-efficient homes for decades, yet people keep buying dumb designs that depend on air conditioning. Luckily most of these houses can be retrofitted with solar panels to power those AC units. My sister runs hers 24/7. Thanks to her PVs, the power bill last quarter was $75.

 

 

[Guest Captain1]

He's not as good as Clinton but head and shoulders above that retard George Dubya.

This demonization of George Bush's intellectual qualities was something started by the left in the US because of, or to show, their supposed intellectual and moral superiority. It has no real merit in truth.

 

 

 

But what are the facts? The fact is that George Bush was the man for the times when the WTC was attacked and you can 2nd guess his policies all you like now in hindsight when the left is oh so wise, but what would you have done at the time when more & perhaps worse attacks were likely to be on the way?

 

 

 

The fact is that George Bush could buy and sell everyone, and I mean everyone, on this Forum, so it is crazy and unwarranted to suggest that he is a "retard" and intellectually inferior, just because you don't agree with some of his policies.

 

 

 

The feel-good left will never have the guts to face and address real-world aggression by others and an "inclusive" mediation love-in like the UN is now a waste of space & money.

 

 

[Guest Captain1]

Wrong.

 

Johnny Howard said the same and has been proven wrong. Even this early in the renewable energy era, they already provide a significant slice of base load power. Their potential is enormous and only limited by lack of imagination.

 

 

 

 

We have known how to build very energy-efficient homes for decades, yet people keep buying dumb designs that depend on air conditioning. Luckily most of these houses can be retrofitted with solar panels to power those AC units. My sister runs hers 24/7. Thanks to her PVs, the power bill last quarter was $75.

Good morning OK.

 

 

 

A "significant slice" is not real and constant & guaranteed "adequate base load power" ...... and based on my investigations into solar panels, they will only cover the power used by an AC unit if it is a "Swampy", and swampies don't work adequately in all parts of OZ.

 

 

 

With regard to your reference to people buying dumb house designs, I really do object to the Green (or any other colour) Set telling the rest of the population how to live their lives based on questionable science, ratbag politics & do-gooder logic, purely based on many of those proponents somehow being magically endowed with moral & engineering superiority.

 

 

 

An example is that down here in the bush where there is plenty of land available for housing, the Council is insisting on 400 sq.m lots with about 3 metres of backyard, many fitted with cheap artificial turf that will break up after 3 - 5 years in the weather. It is a slum in the making, insisted on by the greens & PC wimps within the Council, and all in the name of saving water as I understand it. But where do the kids go to play & where do families grow to become a family? Out in the street I guess, which is a terrific concept.

 

 

 

Regards Geoff