Chinese Mars exploration

[Bruce Tuncks]

I reckon they should be given congratulations and support for their Mars stuff, as we should with the US. It is a wonderful opportunity to show that we are big-minded folk. Space is big enough for everybody and I just wish our government would stop supporting the US in every stupid war and divert money to NASA and other worthy places like the chinese space lot.

[willedoo]

The politics of it is to brag up the U.S. achievements and downplay those of the Chinese and Soviets/Russians. Mars is a good example. Lately, with the landing of the U.S. rover and helicopter, there's been a lot of press mention that the U.S. had the first successful landing on Mars. That's total BS. Several years before, the Soviets had the first crash landing followed soon after by the first successful soft landing. Within a short time, the Soviet lander stopped transmitting data, but it landed successfully years before the Americans. A very small amount of press correctly report the U.S. landing as the first successful mission to mars, meaning what it was, the first successfully completed mission. But first successful landing by the U.S. is a delusion. The Americans would have us believe they invented the wheel.

 

I remember once writing up a comparison list of U.S. vs Soviet/Russian aerospace first acheivements over the years. By the time I was well into the second A4 page of Soviet achievements, I was struggling to think of more than a paragraph or two on the U.S. side. I just wish they would leave politics out of space. It's a tremendous achievement by the Chinese, particularly in light of the short time they have been developing their space exploration technology.

[octave]

Whilst the US government may not have said much NASA has praised the landing.   I listen to a weekly NASA podcast and the Chinese achievement was much praised.   There was some criticism over the re entry procedures (or lack of)  for the booster and for  over the top secrecy but generally admiration.    Animosity is normally between governments not engineers or scientists.  

[Marty_d]

Science is by its nature global and scientists generally collaborative.  It's the politicians that get in the way.

[nomadpete]

Well once upon a time science was open source and there was a lot of sharing of discoveries (scientists sans borders?) but modern research is dominated by sponsors (funding) that expects a financial business return.

 

Sadly not much pure science research gets done.

[nomadpete]

Is it true that china has claimed mining rights to Mars?

[spacesailor]

All the Chinese ' coolies ' have their picks & shovels at the ready.

The first Exidus, to the New World.

spacesailor

 

[onetrack]

China is one of over 100 countries to sign the "Outer Space Treaty", which stops any one country from claiming sovereignty over other celestial bodies.

 

https://2009-2017.state.gov/t/isn/5181.htm#treaty

 

However .... mining for minerals on planets no-one owns, is starting to look like the California gold rush of 1848.....

 

See "Title IV" of the U.S. "Space Act" .... https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/2262/text

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

How stupid to claim mining rights over mars. Who would you apply to anyway?  And who would enforce it?

I would have thought the asteroids were a better mining proposition...  there may be some that are almost pure metal.

[nomadpete]

I've been reading Carl Sagan' book ' Pale Blue Dot'. It was published way back in the last century, about 1994. He was very well qualified in astrophysics, and was involved in a lot of (US) space projects.

 

Anyway, he does go on a lot about the potential of mining asteroids, and even notes that for instance, Titan (a moon of Mars) has a more favorable atmosphere than Mars.

 

More interesting, he notes that our bunch of humans on the Pale Blue Dot' are statistically more likely to have to deal with asteroid impact than any other kind of calamity.

 

He also mentioned an essay written by Robert Goddard (of early rocketry fame). This was titled 'The Ultimate Migration'. Written in about 1914, it forecast interplanetary space travel at a time when all the experts believed that rockets couldn't work in space because there was no air up there to push against.... I can't find a online copy. Has any of you heard of it?

[onetrack]

Nomadpete - There's information as regards Goddards manuscript in the following link, but it appears there's nothing currently available online.

 

https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2013/05/06/robert-goddards-interstellar-migration/

[Marty_d]

All laws end on Earth.  You can have all the outer space mining agreements you want but no one is going to enforce them.  Christ they can't even enforce cleaning up space junk, every country that has the capability of firing something into orbit has left sh*t there.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yep nomadpete, I reckon Sagan would have loved to see the pic of earth as a tiny blue dot in the immensity of space. The pic was taken from beyond the solar system by ( i think ) voyager.

How sad it is that the main occupation on that blue dot is the passengers fighting each other. I think the second biggest industry is "servicing"  imaginary spirits.

 

[octave]

The "pale blue dot" nearly did not happen.   It is quite inspiring that Sagan, a scientist understood that although the picture was of little scientific importance it would have great significance in other ways. 

 

Voyager 1 was expected to work only through the Saturn encounter. When the spacecraft passed the planet in 1980, Sagan proposed the idea of the space probe taking one last picture of Earth.^[8] He acknowledged that such a picture would not have had much scientific value, as the Earth would appear too small for Voyager's cameras to make out any detail, but it would be meaningful as a perspective on humanity's place in the universe.

Although many in NASA's Voyager program were supportive of the idea, there were concerns that taking a picture of Earth so close to the Sun risked damaging the spacecraft's imaging system irreparably. It was not until 1989 that Sagan's idea was put into practice, but then instrument calibrations delayed the operation further, and the personnel who devised and transmitted the radio commands to Voyager 1 were also being laid off or transferred to other projects. Finally, NASA Administrator Richard Truly interceded to ensure that the photograph was taken.^[5][9][10] A proposal to continue to photograph Earth as it orbited the Sun was rejected.^[11]

 

[octave]

Carl Sagan | Pale Blue Dot

[nomadpete]

Cynically, Sagan also pointed out that the bigwigs on earth have not yet evolved to the point where they can be trusted to be in control of anything really important. That was his opinion back in the '90's. I wonder if we have moved very far down that path of 'growing up', that humanity needs, to survive long enough to make really positive strides forward.

 

His picture is as important as the 'blue marble' picture that was taken during one of the lunar missions. They both show clearly how tiny we are in the cosmos.

 

Just think of the advances that could be made if, for instance, we diverted all the present funds from sport, religion and the arms industry, to pure science research!

[Marty_d]

That's it, Peter, you just got my vote for world president. 

[octave]

China’s Presence in Space Grows and So Do Its Accomplishments

[spacesailor]

You mean like the Scientific derived, 

ESPERANTO

Language they tried !.

Dr.L.L.Zamenhof ( 1859-1917  )

His theory was if we understood one another there would be No more wars.

The spelling & pronunciation were absolutely phonetic. 

The grammer was to have only 16 short rules.

The Esperanto dictionary is only one tenth  the size of a national language.

BUT

the education department refused to use it,

French, German ,& now Japanese, are pushed to to the sudents.

spacesailor

[Bruce Tuncks]

How could Esperanto have stopped wars? There have been plenty of wars ( most civil ones) where both sides spoke the same language.

Unfortunately, we just love our wars.

Consider the English in WW1. They were lucky to be allowed in, and only the foolish Schlieffen plan which involved Belgium gave them admittance.

[spacesailor]

AND

IF ,!

Germany had won the first world war .

There would NOThave been a Second world ward.

Spacesailor

[Bruce Tuncks]

Quite right space. I have a mate who says that germany was the least worst side in WW1 and Australia was on the wrong side.

[spacesailor]

It was England that started the Gas warfare by using ' teargas '.

The retaliation was ' mustard gas '.

spacesailor